Noticed alot advertised for around the $250k price tag
Frankston North
- Thread starter Bayside
- Start date
your investment being harmed by agents?
I posted this elsewhere but think it is just as relevant for North Frankston as it is for our neighbors in Frankston/Seaford. Take heed if you own property and want your investment to grow at a sustainable rate.
Over drinks, a friendly local agent once confided in me: "we prefer to work on fast sales and high turnover rather than wasting time trying to get the highest possible price for owners; it takes too much of our time; a cheap house is always easier to sell. Selling houses at around half the melb median suits us agents just fine because few of us own property locally".
The usual modus operandi: Frighten a few grannies with talk of an oncoming world depression and persuade them to sell their houses for barely half the Melb median price. Then use the resulting low sale price as "evidence" that prices are falling. Show the lowest sales figures to homeowning mums and dads in the area in order to markedly reduce their price expectations.....thereby setting off a downward spiral in prices. Sex things up a bit more by telling people the marina will never be built and that "now is the best time to be selling, before the global meltdown kicks in".
This is akin to shouting "fire" in a crowded cinema. It is not a victimless crime. It causes real harm and peoples lives can be severely affected. Local mums and dads who have worked hard to buy their homes are hurt the most.
After inflation, many frnkston homeowners are often persuaded to sell for less than what they originally paid for their homes all those years ago. How ethical is that? But no matter - the agents always get paid their commission. That is all they usually care about
Another trick many agencies use is to accept a homeowner's initial listing price and then not answer calls from prospective buyers.The agent then tells the vendor that there's been no interest from prospective buyers ("its the world economy mate") and he should lower his price. Once the price is lowered, the house is sold in a flash.
The conduct of many agents in Frankston and surrounding areas is reprehensible and hurts mum and dad owners and investors. There are severe penalties - including jail - for price fixing and market manipulation. The law eventually catches up with people who consider themselves untouchable. Go ask Mr Lowy. Send the message home to agents that this is unacceptable.
I posted this elsewhere but think it is just as relevant for North Frankston as it is for our neighbors in Frankston/Seaford. Take heed if you own property and want your investment to grow at a sustainable rate.
Over drinks, a friendly local agent once confided in me: "we prefer to work on fast sales and high turnover rather than wasting time trying to get the highest possible price for owners; it takes too much of our time; a cheap house is always easier to sell. Selling houses at around half the melb median suits us agents just fine because few of us own property locally".
The usual modus operandi: Frighten a few grannies with talk of an oncoming world depression and persuade them to sell their houses for barely half the Melb median price. Then use the resulting low sale price as "evidence" that prices are falling. Show the lowest sales figures to homeowning mums and dads in the area in order to markedly reduce their price expectations.....thereby setting off a downward spiral in prices. Sex things up a bit more by telling people the marina will never be built and that "now is the best time to be selling, before the global meltdown kicks in".
This is akin to shouting "fire" in a crowded cinema. It is not a victimless crime. It causes real harm and peoples lives can be severely affected. Local mums and dads who have worked hard to buy their homes are hurt the most.
After inflation, many frnkston homeowners are often persuaded to sell for less than what they originally paid for their homes all those years ago. How ethical is that? But no matter - the agents always get paid their commission. That is all they usually care about
Another trick many agencies use is to accept a homeowner's initial listing price and then not answer calls from prospective buyers.The agent then tells the vendor that there's been no interest from prospective buyers ("its the world economy mate") and he should lower his price. Once the price is lowered, the house is sold in a flash.
The conduct of many agents in Frankston and surrounding areas is reprehensible and hurts mum and dad owners and investors. There are severe penalties - including jail - for price fixing and market manipulation. The law eventually catches up with people who consider themselves untouchable. Go ask Mr Lowy. Send the message home to agents that this is unacceptable.
If your theory of values being depressed by 'shonky' Frankston agents was correct, then I'd expect rental yields to be higher in Frankston than comparable outer suburbs. This has not happened and Frankston yields are comparable to elsewhere.
A sustained period of high yields would cause an inflow of investors, increased competition and a price rise until yields dropped (as happened in many regional areas).
Average prices (as distinct from prices for a particular property) are determined by market forces between the buyer and seller. Agents, 'shonk' or not, have nothing to do with them.
It sounds like you were burnt by a bad Frankston agent and frequently remind us of this. However this one poor experience cannot comprise a general theory of property values in an area given its large size.
agents abound
Firstly, agents take notice. Please do not PM me offering your services. This is an investment forum, not a venue for you to be touting for business. And unless you own property locally (or plan to do so), do not post on these threads without first declaring your (vested) interests.
Yes, Spiderman, I've been burnt. And so too have many other landlords who have PMd me. There are lots and lots of upset landlords who love Frankston but who detest shonky agents. The area has great prospects. Pity about the agents though.....
Firstly, agents take notice. Please do not PM me offering your services. This is an investment forum, not a venue for you to be touting for business. And unless you own property locally (or plan to do so), do not post on these threads without first declaring your (vested) interests.
Yes, Spiderman, I've been burnt. And so too have many other landlords who have PMd me. There are lots and lots of upset landlords who love Frankston but who detest shonky agents. The area has great prospects. Pity about the agents though.....
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2 & 3 are both located in an area considered to be central Frankston. This area is the closest to the train lines and as such will be one of the first areas to be blessed with zoning changes in the future.
Toni
zoning changes = gentrification
Frankston is the cheapest beachside suburb in Australia with largish blocks that are ripe for eventual subdivision. I am committed to the area for this and other reasons.
Toni, please tell us more about proposed zoning changes? What advice would you have for a committed investor with a 5-10 year buy-and-hold outlook?
My plan is to buy and possibly redevelop someday. I'm interested in the cheaper areas of Frankston where many homes have been sold off far too cheaply by commission hungry agents intent on fast sales (tip: fast sales=fast commissions for minimal work).
Toni, you are obviously not an agent and you appear to own property locally. I'd trust your advice more than that of people who don't own or invest locally. Please share your succinct and well-informed views with us about the area's rezoning potentiality.
In particular: What areas of Frankston represent the best value for you? Have there been major rezonings in recent years? What rezoning proposals can we expect in the future? Does the council allow development of blocks under 600 sqm? How development-friendly is the council? What kind of things does the council knock back?
Please share.
Thanks in advance.
Frankston is the cheapest beachside suburb in Australia with largish blocks that are ripe for eventual subdivision. I am committed to the area for this and other reasons.
Toni, please tell us more about proposed zoning changes? What advice would you have for a committed investor with a 5-10 year buy-and-hold outlook?
My plan is to buy and possibly redevelop someday. I'm interested in the cheaper areas of Frankston where many homes have been sold off far too cheaply by commission hungry agents intent on fast sales (tip: fast sales=fast commissions for minimal work).
Toni, you are obviously not an agent and you appear to own property locally. I'd trust your advice more than that of people who don't own or invest locally. Please share your succinct and well-informed views with us about the area's rezoning potentiality.
In particular: What areas of Frankston represent the best value for you? Have there been major rezonings in recent years? What rezoning proposals can we expect in the future? Does the council allow development of blocks under 600 sqm? How development-friendly is the council? What kind of things does the council knock back?
Please share.
Thanks in advance.
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best redevelopment site in melb?
Originally Posted by dreims
I've notice quite a few properties popping up around the Bradshaw street, Skye road, Eric Bell Reserve, Frankston HWY area
1, 2, 3, 2 and 3 are even next door.
Astounding value if true! This must be one of Melbourne's cheapest redevelopment sites with beachside-marina potential. I do feel sorry for the current owners (pensioners or absentee landlords perhaps?) who may not be aware of the area's potentiality.
On a more sinister note: tried to call the agent to express my interest and nobody returned my calls. Its probably sold: a major market mispricing that I missed out on and another fast commission for the agent?
Something seems amiss here and this reinforces my negative view of agents. What reason would the agent have for not returning calls from potential buyers? Maybe the agent or one of his mates bought it with a view to flipping it? It happens a lot apparently. That would be the only reason for pricing it so low and not returning my calls.
Who knows the truth behind what is clearly a damn cheap development site. I've missed out on a great buy and I'm miffed.
Grubby practices abound. The only agents I would trust are the ones who are long-term local investors. Those who don't own locally or who flip properties for personal short-term profit are off my radar.
Originally Posted by dreims
I've notice quite a few properties popping up around the Bradshaw street, Skye road, Eric Bell Reserve, Frankston HWY area
1, 2, 3, 2 and 3 are even next door.
Astounding value if true! This must be one of Melbourne's cheapest redevelopment sites with beachside-marina potential. I do feel sorry for the current owners (pensioners or absentee landlords perhaps?) who may not be aware of the area's potentiality.
On a more sinister note: tried to call the agent to express my interest and nobody returned my calls. Its probably sold: a major market mispricing that I missed out on and another fast commission for the agent?
Something seems amiss here and this reinforces my negative view of agents. What reason would the agent have for not returning calls from potential buyers? Maybe the agent or one of his mates bought it with a view to flipping it? It happens a lot apparently. That would be the only reason for pricing it so low and not returning my calls.
Who knows the truth behind what is clearly a damn cheap development site. I've missed out on a great buy and I'm miffed.
Grubby practices abound. The only agents I would trust are the ones who are long-term local investors. Those who don't own locally or who flip properties for personal short-term profit are off my radar.
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long term growth? compare manly with frankston
We too hope to buy in Frankston and what Dr K and others say is scary. But I guess it makes sense. If a sales agent doesn't own property locally, its going to be hard to rely on his advice as his only interest would be his commission. Consider the following: we lived in the seaside suburb of Manly (Sydney) before we retired and over there, most sales agents owned their own flats and never, never undersold the suburb as they were fellow-owners and had a big stake in Manly's long term growth. Sydney has declined in the last 5 years. But Manly hasn't. Why? Because local Manly agents keep the faith and almost never underprice new listings. It is different in Frankston; over here agents do not have a significant economic interest in local property. Why promote a suburb in which you don't have a significant economic interest?
In 1970 Frankston and Manly - both cheap beachside suburbs with good infrastructure - were equally priced (I'm using inflation adjusted data here). Today a tacky old Manly unit will typically sell for $700k. But houses in Frankston on large dual-occ blocks sell for half that! Yes, this is definitely a mispricing and we are planning to buy in anticipation of things changing in a big way soon. However, we share the cynicism about the 90% of agents who don't own locally. They'd be better off selling used cars. We musn't encourage such people. They may well get us a cheapie now but their quest for fast commissions will keep Frankston cheaper than it should be in the long run.
Our first question when we talk to agents will be: "if you are committed to the Frankston median price rising, most of your new listings would be marketed above the current median price for Frankston. Why is this not the case?" We will scare off most agents this way but at least, we would be helping keep the price of our intended investments on a sustainable upward trajectory.
Yes, we are optimistic about Frankston. No we don't trust agents and are happy to tell them to the face.
We too hope to buy in Frankston and what Dr K and others say is scary. But I guess it makes sense. If a sales agent doesn't own property locally, its going to be hard to rely on his advice as his only interest would be his commission. Consider the following: we lived in the seaside suburb of Manly (Sydney) before we retired and over there, most sales agents owned their own flats and never, never undersold the suburb as they were fellow-owners and had a big stake in Manly's long term growth. Sydney has declined in the last 5 years. But Manly hasn't. Why? Because local Manly agents keep the faith and almost never underprice new listings. It is different in Frankston; over here agents do not have a significant economic interest in local property. Why promote a suburb in which you don't have a significant economic interest?
In 1970 Frankston and Manly - both cheap beachside suburbs with good infrastructure - were equally priced (I'm using inflation adjusted data here). Today a tacky old Manly unit will typically sell for $700k. But houses in Frankston on large dual-occ blocks sell for half that! Yes, this is definitely a mispricing and we are planning to buy in anticipation of things changing in a big way soon. However, we share the cynicism about the 90% of agents who don't own locally. They'd be better off selling used cars. We musn't encourage such people. They may well get us a cheapie now but their quest for fast commissions will keep Frankston cheaper than it should be in the long run.
Our first question when we talk to agents will be: "if you are committed to the Frankston median price rising, most of your new listings would be marketed above the current median price for Frankston. Why is this not the case?" We will scare off most agents this way but at least, we would be helping keep the price of our intended investments on a sustainable upward trajectory.
Yes, we are optimistic about Frankston. No we don't trust agents and are happy to tell them to the face.
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Zoning changes
http://frankston-leader.whereilive.com.au/news/story/zoning-proposal-horrendous-mayor/
Also it looks like those two properties I posted have just been updated
http://frankston-leader.whereilive.com.au/news/story/zoning-proposal-horrendous-mayor/
Also it looks like those two properties I posted have just been updated
Frankston is the cheapest beachside suburb in Australia with largish blocks that are ripe for eventual subdivision. I am committed to the area for this and other reasons.
Toni, please tell us more about proposed zoning changes? What advice would you have for a committed investor with a 5-10 year buy-and-hold outlook?
My plan is to buy and possibly redevelop someday. I'm interested in the cheaper areas of Frankston where many homes have been sold off far too cheaply by commission hungry agents intent on fast sales (tip: fast sales=fast commissions for minimal work).
Toni, you are obviously not an agent and you appear to own property locally. I'd trust your advice more than that of people who don't own or invest locally. Please share your succinct and well-informed views with us about the area's rezoning potentiality.
In particular: What areas of Frankston represent the best value for you? Have there been major rezonings in recent years? What rezoning proposals can we expect in the future? Does the council allow development of blocks under 600 sqm? How development-friendly is the council? What kind of things does the council knock back?
Please share.
I am sorry I'm not as informed as you may think. Yes I have 4 properties in the Frankston area and have been monitoring the Frankston area (local papers, general papers and council for a long time now (10 years approx), however, I'm probably no more informed than anyone else.
Unfortunately it is very hard to know exactly what is happening in the Council or Government. So many things are kept under wrap and the first we hear of anything, is through the media and often even this is not reliable and/or apposed. This proposed marina has come under so much opposition and is one of many examples of ageing locals who refuse any kind of change to their area. Thankfully, we appear to have finally won that battle.
As for the zoning changes, it is my understanding that under the Governments proposed 2030 planning amendments, which I understand should be released shortly, government is wanting to introduce three zones in residential areas, setting up development assessment committees and bypassing municipal councils which will allow much more development than now without a permit.
Under the Government's proposal, council planning powers will be handed to a five-member development assessment committee - an independent chairperson and two representatives each of the relevant council and Government.
The committee will initially assess permit applications in five major centres, and Frankston - a designated activity zone - is listed for the second round likely to be announced soon
Mr. Brumby's announcement to slow urban sprawl and encourage higher density housing was criticised by councils and community groups.
Cr. Wardle said it would see up to five houses being built on larger blocks in Frankston South.
"If you have a 1000-square-metre block you'll get three two-storey houses without a permit. At the moment everyone has to apply (for a permit) and meet all planning controls. Applicants will be exempt from being challenged at VCAT (Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal) if Rescode standards are met. This basically means the whole place will be up for sale with high-density housing everywhere."
Cr. Wardle said existing controls including environmental significance design and development overlays "will go".
Cr Wardle said he "wouldn't be surprised" if developers delayed making planning applications because the new system would make it easier for them to have their plans approved.
He said land near railway stations would increase in price and there would be no guarantee of Mt Eliza retaining its character.
"If you can put five houses on two thirds of an acre, it will transform Mt. Eliza."
Culcairn Drive, Frankston, where 60 houses were on the way to being replaced by 600 dwelling was an example of what could happen.
"There are no protections. But probably the biggest problem for council will be increased traffic in suburban streets."
Whilst this is what has been proposed by Government, Frankston Council is aggressively apposing such changes and what the end result will be, who knows?
I have, however, rang council about this proposal and asked what the likelihood of such changes being passed to the 2/3 acre properties would be, and was advised that we had more chance around the Central Frankston region where local transport and facilities were more accessible.
So as you can see, still none the wiser. Really, again need to wait and see.
Toni
missed bargains
Someone got lucky here
http://www.homesvic.com/realestate/property/detail/110-rosemary-cres-frankston-north-vic-local-11221.html
Sold: 19 Oct 2008
Expecting: $258,000
Sold For: $185,000
Someone got lucky here
http://www.homesvic.com/realestate/property/detail/110-rosemary-cres-frankston-north-vic-local-11221.html
Sold: 19 Oct 2008
Expecting: $258,000
Sold For: $185,000
Must be a mistake D
It's still listed on realestate.com.au
http://www.realestate.com.au/cgi-bi...r=&cc=&c=13751685&s=vic&snf=rbs&tm=1230702232
It's still listed on realestate.com.au
http://www.realestate.com.au/cgi-bi...r=&cc=&c=13751685&s=vic&snf=rbs&tm=1230702232
If that is right i am sooooooo jelous!!
I have just emailed the agent. Will report back IF i get a reply.
Kind regards,
Matt
I have just emailed the agent. Will report back IF i get a reply.
Kind regards,
Matt
Hey All,
Emailed the agant and that Frankston North property mentioned above has not been sold.
Renting $190p.w for anyone interested.
Matt
Emailed the agant and that Frankston North property mentioned above has not been sold.
Renting $190p.w for anyone interested.
Matt
Aren't you interested Sabitor?
