Getting a Uni degree

[Corey Batt]

Ok, that's actually very reasonable. Extremely reasonable.

Obviously it's not an option for everybody, most will never achieve the grades or have the connections required to get into an Ivy League, but it's probably the best value for money given the reputation and CV brownie points. I concede your point.

Ugh, we'll have students paying 10 times that for a 'global top 1000' university soon.

At the same point, cherry picking a school in the US which heavily subsidises their tuition to provide a financially level playing field is a bit of a poor comparison, just the same that a US technical college pointing at certain Australian programs which provide free TAFE level courses could start espousing that the Australian education system is the bees knees.

Can anyone link to a piece of non politically biased source which shows that student loans will be 100-200k?

And no, Union/Greens/Socialist Alternative/Labor puppet sites are not real sources.

 

[Fifth]

At the same point, cherry picking a school in the US which heavily subsidises their tuition to provide a financially level playing field is a bit of a poor comparison, just the same that a US technical college pointing at certain Australian programs which provide free TAFE level courses could start espousing that the Australian education system is the bees knees.

Can anyone link to a piece of non politically biased source which shows that student loans will be 100-200k?

And no, Union/Greens/Socialist Alternative/Labor puppet sites are not real sources.

I'm sorry, I didn't intend to turn this thread political, especially since it's been so amicable so far.

My last sentence was said slightly facetiously, hence the 'top 1000'.

Nobody knows how much the fees would rise by if the changes made it through the senate - not the Greens, not Labor and not the Liberals. It would rise but by how much nobody knows. My figure of '10 times that' was intended as an exaggeration anyway, I did not intend for it to be taken literally.

 

[Nemo30]

I went to uni and studied teaching - worst 4 years of my life. Significant struggle financially, but I thought it was the best thing to do at the time.

Fell into my current job while on a two week break from uni in my final year and never went back. No qualifications needed. I've worked my way up over a 10+ year period and earn more than I would have teaching, and for the most part have loved what I do.

In hindsight I should have given up uni much earlier, but you live and learn. I developed some good skills at uni which have helped me in my career, so not all lost.

My son is currently in his second year at uni studying media. If it becomes a life long career great, but if not there are plenty of other options out there. As long as he is happy I don't care what he does. I'm all for following dreams, whatever they may be.

 

[BayView]

No, our immigration system favours very limited immigration.

Bzzzt. Wrong

Have a quick drive around suburbs like Noble Park (my wife's folks live there, so we are there a fair bit to see them), or Dandenong, and see just how many immigrants are walking around.

There are simply loads and loads and loads and loads and loads...

These are two suburbs where well-to-do Uni qualified immigrants who can earn good coin would definitely not even think about living in.

No; these suburbs are populated by a large number of not-so-up-the-ladder folk....no limited immigration criteria there.

Springvale is another that comes to mind.

I worked at Frangers Hospital for 3 years in the ICU, and there were loads of recently immigrated doctors, Radiologists, and equivalents - they only sought out areas like Mt.Eliza, Mt.Martha, Frankston South, or nearer the city in the better suburbs...particularly along the Bay and near the train line.

 

[cimbom]

Your anecdotes of a few hundred or thousand migrants is not evidence. Europe (as per my previous example) has open borders and there is no way a big number of tradesmen would be making six figures. Not when there's people from eastern and southern Europe to contend with. The only reason tradies make six figures here is because there's no competition.

 

[cimbom]

Good luck to your son Nemo30. I studied media and communication at uni and loved it.

 

[BayView]

Your anecdotes of a few hundred or thousand migrants is not evidence. Europe (as per my previous example) has open borders and there is no way a big number of tradesmen would be making six figures. Not when there's people from eastern and southern Europe to contend with. The only reason tradies make six figures here is because there's no competition.

I would venture to say that the reason anyone makes six figures here is due to the wages levels, and/or probably working extra hours; rather than lack of competition?

I think the blokes on a wage might be over the $100k if they work 6 days?

The guys (tradies) who run their own businesses and work mostly alone might do even better or maybe worse?

I'm tipping running their own show with half a doz employees is almost not worth the grief these days - I have heard that from a number of tradies...went back to working on their own.

My BIL is a plumber; mostly earning approx $80k as a wage here in Melb..

He did a 3 year stint in the mines (FIFO) and his combined grossed-up wage there was closer to $140k (when you factored in all food etc.)

 

[virgo]

Uni

Hiya

I think a lot also depends also on family backgrounds...most of my and my hubby's immediate family went to uni....so we do not have the trade background at dinner tables to engage in conversation with....


However, i do think that uni is only just a first entry point....soft skills like people skills are very important....the ability to be a team player, to have empathy, to have a professional attitude etc cannot be learnt at university....they have to start at home

 

[Beanie Girl]

Can anyone link to a piece of non politically biased source which shows that student loans will be 100-200k?

And no, Union/Greens/Socialist Alternative/Labor puppet sites are not real sources.

Here you go, CJay,
Professor Bruce Chapman of ANU, architect of the HECS scheme, says

"University degrees will cost up to three times as much under a deregulated fee system, leaving graduates with $120,000-plus debts.

'Fees will go up and they will go up quite significantly,'' Professor Chapman, director of policy impact at the Australian National University, said.

''I expect most universities will increase tuition fees to international student fee levels, which are currently about three times higher. The Group of Eight universities will do that pretty quickly.

Professor Chapman said it was plausible the cost of a bachelor of medical science would rise from $24,000 to $120,000 - the fee for international students at the University of Sydney.

''The idea fees will go down anywhere is frankly fantasy land,'' he said.

Bruce Chapman, regarded as one of Australia's leading education economists, also warned that increasing the interest rate for student debts would hit poor graduates and women the hardest.

Professor Chapman said the government's plan for students to pay interest on loans up to 6 per cent - depending on the government bond rate - was unfair. Students who drop out of university and start out in low-paying jobs would be the hardest hit, he said. So would women who delay paying back their debts when they take time off work after having children".

......................

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...itect-warns-20140514-zrctv.html#ixzz36v9NXkcg

 

[geoffw]

I did ok at uni, and learnt and grew a lot as a result of my years there.

In IT a degree was often considered as an asset- not necessarily for the sake of the degree, but as something which showed that you had the work ethic to finish something which took substantial effort.

I've always told my daughters though that the important thing is to find something they really want to do. That may or may not involve university.

 

[nhg]

There are some fields which definitely do require a degree but I do wonder if we're doing a disservice to ourselves by making university the norm.

Well said, this is the point I was alluding to.

A majority of the degrees they offer are watered down and do not lead to a high level of academics but simply form a revenue source for universities.

Most of my peers at university were very clear in stating they were at university because they were lazy. Others were there because it delayed them having to enter the real world, many of those are undertaking a PhD or their 3rd degree (no dig at PhD's, my sister has one and worked very hard for it).

I may be misinterpreting it, but it seems there is an assumption if you don't go to university you don't learn. It all comes down to self study, if you really want to improve yourself, you will meet likeminded individuals and learn your craft in any way you can.

Yes university can make it easier to enter the work force. But it took 5 years and $$$ to get to that point. What could someone do in 5 years in the meantime.

As someone else quoted, university is a slow place to learn.

 

[Terry_w]

Have a quick drive around suburbs like Noble Park (my wife's folks live there, so we are there a fair bit to see them), or Dandenong, and see just how many immigrants are walking around.

There are simply loads and loads and loads and loads and loads...

T

You are confusing enthnicity with immigration.

Just because someone may look Chinese doesn't mean they immigrated from China (or anywhere else).

 

[BayView]

You are confusing enthnicity with immigration.

Just because someone may look Chinese doesn't mean they immigrated from China (or anywhere else).

No, I am not.

I am old enough to know - and have seen - a few generations of immigrant kids become adults, so I realise a Chinese looking 20 year old probably has a broader Aussie accent than me.

You need to go through the areas, Terry; and not cast aspersions from a 1000 miles away..

Plus; my folks-in-law have lived there for over 40 years...they know what the demographic was, and what it now is.

I have been going there for over 20 years (been married for 20, and going out before this for a few), so I know the areas I have mentioned very well.

The ethnicities are a number of different countries and races now.

Sudanese are the latest flock...in a number of suburbs around there. A decade ago you never saw any.

Back to the point; "immigration is limited" - it is not, and these types of suburbs prove that.

The Uni-educated and professionally trained immigrants don't live in these areas, which are very heavily populated with recent immigrants, and a wide range of countries represented..

By recent; I mean the last decade or so.

As for the reason why we don't get many immigrant tradies over here; I don't know the answer to that one - other than it may be very hard for them to break into the relevant trades without a certain level of quals?

I know this is the case with nurses for example; the amount of hoops my wife had to jump through, and exams and checks etc for her to work in the USA - and she has a nursing degree for god's sake.

 

[mumbai]

Well said, this is the point I was alluding to.

A majority of the degrees they offer are watered down and do not lead to a high level of academics but simply form a revenue source for universities.

Most of my peers at university were very clear in stating they were at university because they were lazy. Others were there because it delayed them having to enter the real world, many of those are undertaking a PhD or their 3rd degree (no dig at PhD's, my sister has one and worked very hard for it).

I may be misinterpreting it, but it seems there is an assumption if you don't go to university you don't learn. It all comes down to self study, if you really want to improve yourself, you will meet likeminded individuals and learn your craft in any way you can.

Yes university can make it easier to enter the work force. But it took 5 years and $$$ to get to that point. What could someone do in 5 years in the meantime.

As someone else quoted, university is a slow place to learn.

you, more often than not, have been generalising with just your example.
I agree with most of the posts here that say whether UNI or NOT, its YOU who will actually make the difference. If an individual does not have an inclination to learn at UNI, so be it. Others find it useful, continue and do well. It just boils down to the individual.

 

[mumbai]

No, I am not.

I am old enough to know - and have seen - a few generations of immigrant kids become adults, so I realise a Chinese looking 20 year old probably has a broader Aussie accent than me.

You need to go through the areas, Terry; and not cast aspersions from a 1000 miles away..

Plus; my folks-in-law have lived there for over 40 years...they know what the demographic was, and what it now is.

I have been going there for over 20 years (been married for 20, and going out before this for a few), so I know the areas I have mentioned very well.

The ethnicities are a number of different countries and races now.

Sudanese are the latest flock...in a number of suburbs around there. A decade ago you never saw any.

Back to the point; "immigration is limited" - it is not, and these types of suburbs prove that.

The Uni-educated and professionally trained immigrants don't live in these areas, which are very heavily populated with recent immigrants, and a wide range of countries represented..

By recent; I mean the last decade or so.

I have not been in those areas and casting my comments from 1000 miles away. Just because, these Sudanese looking people have started coming to these areas recently, does not in anyway represent the influx of immigrants. For arguments sake, they could be Australian citizens residing in some other part of the country and recently settled down closer to 'their' community.

Just by the look of the person (assuming you dont go talking to every non-Caucasian looking person), you cannot say whether they are immigrants, refugees or have been on the Australian soil for lot more time than you have.

 

[BayView]

Your anecdotes of a few hundred or thousand migrants is not evidence. Europe (as per my previous example) has open borders and there is no way a big number of tradesmen would be making six figures. Not when there's people from eastern and southern Europe to contend with. The only reason tradies make six figures here is because there's no competition.

Is that anecdotal, or "evidence".

Incidentally; I don't reckon a big number of tradies here are making 6 figures either - otherwise; why would they flock to the mines to earn more coin?

By the way; anecdotes are evidence...maybe not all-encompassing, but still part of evidence.

Stats are not necessarily the correct evidence (in any study) and many folks don't take that into account.

I could pick a suburb like Toorak, and say that there are only Professionally educated folks coming into Aus, so therefore immigration is limited...and someone might even pull that out as anecdotal evidence.

But I know this is not the case without even driving there. I'd wager there are no recently from O/S K-Mart workers living there..it's simply real estate cost.

But, I do know that doctors don't live in the Noble Parks of the Country.

Many may grow up in those areas, but get out as fast as they can to a better postcode...and they all follow each other in that regard.

The immigrant docs find out where the majority are living and move nearer to them. That's fact.

 

[Tigger]

It depends on what sort of person you are, enjoy doing, want to do etc. I agree that Uni is not for everyone and nor should it be. My family has no Uni history (working class/railway workers/etc.) and I did not complete high school.

I went as mature age student aged 27 and loved it. Science degree, did well at it, have the sort of mind that suits Uni. Went on to science post grad studies.

I am now working as glorified pen pusher because few science jobs actually exist (lots of science work to do but not enough $$ to fund jobs). Bored at work so am doing History PhD part time for mental health reasons!

For retirement savings I got into investment RE. It was a learning curve too, and I did Ok out of it. So I could afford to semi-retire to go back to study.

I don't expect to get a job out of the PhD either. I expect to work part time as pen pusher but keep my mind active doing other things.

What others have said is true. It comes down to who you are. Earning $$ is fine but is not all your life is made up of (if it is, I'm sorry for you). You have to be balanced, happy, etc. Think of your community, other people.

Many people criticise Uni as "just book learning" so I am surprised to hear others have heard you only learn if you go to Uni. I learn lots of ways - but Uni is good because it condenses thousands of years of human knowledge into a relatively short course of only a few years. Then again, so did the Jan Somers books on real estate!

For young people I would say trades are as good as Uni and if you're that sort of person, a trade is perfectly fine education rather than Uni. Problem is, most of us dont know ourselves well enough to make the best choice until we get older.

 

[nhg]

I have not been in those areas and casting my comments from 1000 miles away. Just because, these Sudanese looking people have started coming to these areas recently, does not in anyway represent the influx of immigrants. For arguments sake, they could be Australian citizens residing in some other part of the country and recently settled down closer to 'their' community.

Just by the look of the person (assuming you dont go talking to every non-Caucasian looking person), you cannot say whether they are immigrants, refugees or have been on the Australian soil for lot more time than you have.

There's had/has been a pretty horrific war raging in Sudan, there has been a massive influx of refugees and immigrants from there and Afghanistan from early 2000.

When I was in Wagga there was a huge influx there too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudanese_Australian

Also point noted on lack of statistics so...
https://www.immi.gov.au/media/publi...tate-territory-migration-summary-31032014.pdf

 

[BayView]

I have not been in those areas and casting my comments from 1000 miles away. Just because, these Sudanese looking people have started coming to these areas recently, does not in anyway represent the influx of immigrants. For arguments sake, they could be Australian citizens residing in some other part of the country and recently settled down closer to 'their' community.

Just by the look of the person (assuming you dont go talking to every non-Caucasian looking person), you cannot say whether they are immigrants, refugees or have been on the Australian soil for lot more time than you have.

So, for the last 10-15 years, all the Vietnamese, Indian, Sri-Lankan, Chinese, Sudanese, and many others have been hiding in other parts of Aus, and all of a sudden decided to descend on "the Noble Parks" of the Country as their preferred place to live? Gimmee a break.

Please reread my posts.

#93 is the most relevant one to your argument here.

I'm not here to argue that this is true - it is.

I used these areas to show that immigration is not limited as someone else suggested that it is.

We take immigrants from all races and education levels here.

Fact.

 

[mumbai]

Please reread my posts.

#93 is the most relevant one to your argument here.

It is not. I quoted and commented on #93.