Getting a Uni degree

[Fifth]

Something interesting to also consider. The thinking you can get ahead without a degree is kind of unique to this country. I think it is because we have for a long time had a strong economy so business has been able to grow and our trades are paid extremely well.

Ask this question on an American forum and the responses you get will be vastly different.

In the US you have a situation where college graduates are flipping burgers. And this doesn't just apply to arts degrees and whatnot, but to people with degrees in law, IT etc.. Unemployment is much higher there and a higher proportion of people have degrees. Much more competitive.

Another problem in the US is that their college fees are higher than our university fees (though we're moving in that direction). A lot of Americans are paying off massive student loans, earning low salaries and wondering if it was all worth it.

In the US a 4 year degree is typical and that time is dragged out even further by needing to study post-grad to specialise (another thing we're moving towards with the 'Melbourne Model').

 

[nhg]

It's been a long time since I read this, but wasn't the typical person in this book university qualified?

From here: http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/s/stanley-millionaire.html

"As a group, we are fairly well educated. Only about one in five are not college graduates. Many of us hold advanced degrees. Eighteen percent have master's degrees, 8 percent law degrees, 6 percent medical degrees, and 6 percent Ph.D.s."

I'm reading it again for the 3rd time (it's lying on the table right next to me). That was a statistic. However for the most part, the PAWs are business owners and very frugal.

I have an engineering degree, but many of my colleagues did not, and it wasn't the main source of my income. Under the books classification I am still a UAW.

"Many of the types of businesses we are in could be classified as dullnormal. We are welding contractors, auctioneers, rice farmers, owners of mobile-home parks, pest controllers, coin and stamp dealers, and paving contractors."

 

[BayView]

The tradies on the production lines tend to be the ones crying on ACA, not the engineers.

LOL!

ACA is the show that champions causes for the masses; the not-so-high-ups, etc.

That is where their ratings come from too.

So, for them to be showing a bunch of minority higher-enders (Management, engineers, and the like) having a cry about how they was wronged; never gunna happen.

Conversely; the higher-enders are higher-enders because they are not of a victim/anti-Boss mentality, and will dust themselves off and go hard again when things are tough, so won't be running to Tracy for a hearing..

 

[ok180]

In the US you have a situation where college graduates are flipping burgers. And this doesn't just apply to arts degrees and whatnot, but to people with degrees in law, IT etc.. Unemployment is much higher there and a higher proportion of people have degrees. Much more competitive.

Another problem in the US is that their college fees are higher than our university fees (though we're moving in that direction). A lot of Americans are paying off massive student loans, earning low salaries and wondering if it was all worth it.

In the US a 4 year degree is typical and that time is dragged out even further by needing to study post-grad to specialise (another thing we're moving towards with the 'Melbourne Model').

With all that you would still be considered crazy over there if you did not go to college. Go look at what a trade earns over there compared to here. Those are the jobs for the Mexicans. They get paid about $3 an hour.

Back to Australia. Here is something interesting for you: http://www.seek.com.au/150kjobs?cid=sk:main:au:tab:150k

Go see how many of those 150k jobs do not have a degree as mandatory.

 

[nhg]

LOL!
Conversely; the higher-enders are higher-enders because they are not of a victim/anti-Boss mentality, and will dust themselves off and go hard again when things are tough.

I'm an engineer surrounded by engineers. Most of my outer circle of friends are lawyers and doctors. Believe me, this has not prevented a great majority of them having a victim mentality. Except in their THE WORLD IS UNFAIR rants they throw in words like MERCEDES and VERSACE.

Something interesting to also consider. The thinking you can get ahead without a degree is kind of unique to this country. I think it is because we have for a long time had a strong economy so business has been able to grow and our trades are paid extremely well.

Ask this question on an American forum and the responses you get will be vastly different.

Doubtful. Every (truly) wealthy friend I have has a business owning family. In America, Peru, Taiwan, Iran, you name it. They are highly encouraged by their families to take over the business or start their own.

 

[alicudi]

Hi

What a great thread. Interesting to hear how peoples thoughts are with uni degrees. I did things totally opposite to the normal.

I completed Year 12 back in 1992 and went into full time employment and ran a couple of small businesses and dabbed into a little property development and investment.

I turn 40 this month and am nearly half way into completing my property degree at Deakin uni. Taking into consideration the way I have done things I would still have guessed that having a uni degree would have been very beneficial for me had I done it straight after finishing Year 12 even though I didn't need it to gain employment or run any of my small businesses. Uni has opened my eyes and ears to things that you are never taught in the real world because nobody is spending the time teaching you!

When I was 18 I was the last person on earth that would consider going to uni...funny how things pan out over one's life.

Regards,

alicudi

 

[pieman]

Vy and I are in the same game but we've seen roles move offshore as quick as technology changes, however in IT there will always be a requirement for people that cN solve /translate business problems into laymans terms and then implement. A long as the entire business of large enterpriSes move OS - and I'm sure they will one day- there will always be a requirement for local Aussies to talk "Aussie" talk not some third world mix with a complete misunderstanding of local nuances.
A good degree can be the beginning of filling this role

 

[cimbom]

If you want to talk about job stability, consider the blue collar and white collar workers at the various car manufacturers. It's the engineers, IT support, etc that are able to find alternate employment or adapt to new circumstances fairly quickly. The tradies on the production lines tend to be the ones crying on ACA, not the engineers.

Exactly. The cost/benefit analysis that some people do is ridiculous. Wow, you could be earning money during those 3-4 years instead of studying! The number of people who would actually save/invest well from the ages of say 18 - 22 are so small. The number who would make a noteworthy income in this time is even smaller. Reminds me of a guy I met who was working in a casino as a dealer. He was bragging that he didn't study and makes 45k/year. Too bad he has to work 6 days per week and during the middle of the night as well. I didn't get my first full-time job until the grand old age of 25 and that didn't stop me. I even ran my own business during the final year of uni. The more skills/qualifications you have, the more options are open to you.

Hairdresser robot: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...unveils-robotic-hairdresser-CEATEC-Tokyo.html

Fast food robot:
http://singularityhub.com/2013/01/22/robot-serves-up-340-hamburgers-per-hour/

Aged care robot:
http://innovation.uk.msn.com/personal/will-robot-nurses-soon-be-caring-for-us

 

[ok180]

Doubtful. Every (truly) wealthy friend I have has a business owning family. In America, Peru, Taiwan, Iran, you name it. They are highly encouraged by their families to take over the business or start their own.

Sure, a good business will beat anything. How many business's fail though? How many just plod along and don't do that well? For every successful business there are hundred and thousands that never really make it.

If you have a specialised degree though, even as a plodder it's not going to be hard to earn over 100k if you stick it out.

 

[nhg]

Sure, a good business will beat anything. How many business's fail though? How many just plod along and don't do that well? For every successful business there are hundred and thousands that never really make it.

If you have a specialised degree though, even as a plodder it's not going to be hard to earn over 100k if you stick it out.

How many careers fail, or worse, stagnate.

I was a 24 year old in a company of 700 where maybe 10 people earned more than me. There was probably only 10 people younger than me too.

I'd can't back it with statistics, I would imagine there are more careers that crash and burn than there are businesses. Just cause you are still surviving I wouldn't say you're any better off.

 

[WattleIdo]

I went to uni from 2005 and at one point in my early 20's had 4 masters lined up. I thought that was the way to get ahead.

Read the book Millionaire Next Door.

Sure you may earn more as a lawyer (not really), but most of your high (again, not really) income will go on looking the part, living the part, and socialising with others living a more consumerist lifestyle. Same as doctors.

Good points nhg - no-one needs to do that much study. A degree or two maybe.
But re-read The Millionarie ND and other books too. What is it that the self-made rich prize above anything else? Education for their children.

Not just because it gives you more opportunities with jobs.

One of my best friends has a PhD in Physics. More than decent income. Her hubby can't even find a job. But while we were studying at uni, he was an electrical engineer at the airport and bought a run-down little shack in Erskineville, Sydney... late 80's early 90's.
That little shack sky-rocketed them into wealth. She has the income now but he set up the base.

Without him, she'd still be paying off a mortgage in the suburbs. Mind you, without her, he'd probably be living in a trendy house on the dole.

Getting a job and investing early is fantastic if you can do it. For the vast majority in this day and age it's not like that now and it can be harmful to go around telling young guys that they don't have to work on their ability to concentrate because they'll get a good job doing something else. Well, in general, they won't.

My friend's hubby is a great guy and would be good to work with - has all the characteristics you'd look for - ability to work in a team, sense of humour, intelligence, easy going, cooks, cleans, everything. But hasn't had a job for 3 or 4 years and barely 50.

Oh well, leaves more time for gliding!!!

 

[neK]

There's nothing out there that guarantees you a job. Not a degree, not an apprenticeship.

People can be very successful with or without a university education.

The really hard part is figuring out what you want to do with your life when you're 17.

I think this sums it really. Way i see it, its the individual that makes it happen. Its the ability to turn something into a usable tool... bit like how MacGyver creates random tools from everyday objects

 

[S.T]

Vy and I are in the same game but we've seen roles move offshore as quick as technology changes, however in IT there will always be a requirement for people that cN solve /translate business problems into laymans terms and then implement. A long as the entire business of large enterpriSes move OS - and I'm sure they will one day- there will always be a requirement for local Aussies to talk "Aussie" talk not some third world mix with a complete misunderstanding of local nuances.
A good degree can be the beginning of filling this role

Funny, but this is a lot of my current role. These jobs will always be required, but you need to be good at them!

Hi

What a great thread. Interesting to hear how peoples thoughts are with uni degrees. I did things totally opposite to the normal.

I completed Year 12 back in 1992 and went into full time employment and ran a couple of small businesses and dabbed into a little property development and investment.

I turn 40 this month and am nearly half way into completing my property degree at Deakin uni. Taking into consideration the way I have done things I would still have guessed that having a uni degree would have been very beneficial for me had I done it straight after finishing Year 12 even though I didn't need it to gain employment or run any of my small businesses. Uni has opened my eyes and ears to things that you are never taught in the real world because nobody is spending the time teaching you!

When I was 18 I was the last person on earth that would consider going to uni...funny how things pan out over one's life.

Regards,

alicudi

Very good post and why I am back at uni also as a mature aged student. it amazes me what I am learning, even after I've worked for 13 years in the same industry I'm studying. I always have a laugh at peers who don't educate or keep up with education - they believe their experience will always keep them ahead of the field, one of them was made redundant and is now doing a low skilled labouring job.

In this day and age, you really need to maintain that competitive advantage the days of having the same job for life are gone.

 

[Peter_Tersteeg]

I think this sums it really. Way i see it, its the individual that makes it happen. Its the ability to turn something into a usable tool... bit like MacGyver

MacGyver was an engineer!

 

[WattleIdo]

Uni has opened my eyes and ears to things that you are never taught in the real world because nobody is spending the time teaching you!

When I was 18 I was the last person on earth that would consider going to uni...funny how things pan out over one's life.

Exactly.

nhg: I'm an engineer surrounded by engineers. Most of my outer circle of friends are lawyers and doctors. Believe me, this has not prevented a great majority of them having a victim mentality. Except in their THE WORLD IS UNFAIR rants they throw in words like MERCEDES and VERSACE.

Haha that would be hard to tolerate

TPI: It's been a long time since I read this, but wasn't the typical person in this book university qualified?

From here: http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/s...llionaire.html

"As a group, we are fairly well educated. Only about one in five are not college graduates. Many of us hold advanced degrees. Eighteen percent have master's degrees, 8 percent law degrees, 6 percent medical degrees, and 6 percent Ph.D.s."

That's right! The thread was moving so fast I couldn't keep up.

 

[VYBerlinaV8]

This thread has generated some of the best discussion I've seen on here for a while. Lots of different views and not a hint of personal attack.

Well done people!

 

[cimbom]

How many careers fail, or worse, stagnate.

I was a 24 year old in a company of 700 where maybe 10 people earned more than me. There was probably only 10 people younger than me too.

I'd can't back it with statistics, I would imagine there are more careers that crash and burn than there are businesses. Just cause you are still surviving I wouldn't say you're any better off.

From the ABS:
In terms of business survival rates, of the 2,050,642 businesses operating in June 2009, 86.9% were still operating in June 2010, 77.4% were still operating in June 2011, 69.9% were still operating in June 2012 and 62.9% were still operating in June 2013.
(http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/[email protected]/Lookup/8165.0Main+Features1Jun 2009 to Jun 2013)

I believe the unemployment rate for university graduates is about 2 or 3%.

 

[starter]

It's just the opportunity cost with the degree as it delays your investment, especially if in the years you're studying the markets are booming.

I don't regret my degrees at all though, it gives me plenty of options. I can live and work in numerous countries overseas earning a decent wage without too much trouble, which suits me perfectly and is well worth the 5 yrs I spent at uni. I also met my partner at uni which alone made it worthwhile.

 

[BayView]

Except in their THE WORLD IS UNFAIR rants they throw in words like MERCEDES and VERSACE.

LOL!

We cop that a fair bit; the horrible cost of getting my: Merc/Beemer/Toureg/XC70, etc...serviced/tyres.

And; one of my best friends is currently driving a 2013 BMW X5, fully tricked, and is whining about how tough business has been.

 

[Wirra436]

Quite a lot of interesting thoughts and Info.

My 2c

I for one haven't been to university, I did think about completing a business degree but in the end I came to the conclusion it served no purpose.

When I was in high school University was pushed on us so much, "Uni was the way to go and Trades were a dead end".

I always wanted to be an Electrician, as my father was one and i genuinely enjoyed the field of work.

Than the "Mining Boom" hit, and there were no trades to be seen, all of the older generation had moved on and trades were in High Demand, hence why the money for good tradesmen was thrown at them......

As time has gone on things have slowed yes, but I still believe having a trade behind you is as good if not better than a University degree.

I do believe that some Degrees and Trades are more Valuable than others, but to say that a Degree is better than a Trade is total bull.

*I look at my cousin just recently graduated as a teacher, struggling to find work and Underpaid.
*My two good friends one a Nurse the other a paramedic , both underpaid and not appreciated.
*A recently graduated engineer at work, lucky enough to have been picked from 2000 applicants for one Chemical Engineering role.
* My friend Nicole, just quit her HR job to become an electrical Apprentice with BHP.

Yet all my trade friends, have never been out of work and even if they did lose their job, there is always some company or somewhere with a bit of machinery needed to be fixed, always getting paid good money wether un-appreciated or not.

In the end I truly believe its up to the individual on what they "Enjoy" and what career they endeavour to have.

If I had my choice over again, I would go with a Trade every time.