I'm watching a business fail

That still does not clarify what coastymike wrote for me ?

A lady sold a buisness, a bloke bought it.. .why shoudl the bloike have clauses that will keep the lady's lawuyers busy for year ?

WTF has she done wrong ? What is unforatunate >? He got waht whe wanted / she got what she wanted :confused:

Is coastymike syaign somehww he got ripped off ?

Well her share of profits will not be real flash if teh business is now making no profits.

Sorry just throwing examples of where it could get messy with lawyers.
 
Well her share of profits will not be real flash if teh business is now making no profits.

Sorry just throwing examples of where it could get messy with lawyers.

What ARE you guys talking about ?

What share of profits SHE sold her business to HIM
Why would today's profits or losses concern HER ?
 
What ARE you guys talking about ?

What share of profits SHE sold her business to HIM
Why would today's profits or losses concern HER ?

When you sell a business that is of significant size or complexity it does not generally involve walking away scott free with the proceeds. Usually deferred payments based on performance of the business and or a leadership role for a few years after the sale.

Otherwise it is quite easy to cook the books etc for a sale and then walk away especially in more complex besinesses where prohjections and forcasts can make hundreds of thoughsands of dollars difference to performance. It is not just a cash in cash out exercise for most businesses. I guess though a cafe is not one of them.

Granted a cafe is not such a business but I was pointing out a situation that may keep lawyers busy.

Edit: sorry I was elaborating on my post above in the post you quoted. I can now see how in isolation said post looks stupid.
 
A tale of two cafes -

There was a cafe on a corner of Crown St is Surry Hills that was forever failing and changing hands. Me and my mates used to call it Death Corner, and thought it was simply on the wrong side of the street. Then a young couple and a friend of theirs bought it as a team, put in bifold windows, gave it a funky paint job, put on a snazzy fresh-ingredients menu and focussed on getting the coffee perfect. It boomed! 3 years later they sold it, and did the same to another and another and another in different parts of Sydney one year apart each, so they now control three properties (managing one cafe each). One simple formula and a lot of hard work has done the trick for them.

Another cafe in Surry Hills (about 200m away but not on Crown St) was a fish and chip shop for many years, trying to stay alive selling second-rate product to its increasingly affluent residents. It just struggled to stay alive for a few miserable years after we moved into the area. Then some Chinese bought it and introduced a totally frozen out-of-the-carton menu. Dead of course in 6 months. Then a dodgy falafel bar, predictably dead in 6 mths too, followed by an even more dodgy BBQ chicken bar, equally dead in a surpisingly long 6 mths. What they all had in common was trying to serve rubbish to a resident population that simply doesn't eat rubbish and can absolutely afford not to. Now the place has got newpaper on its windows again and some other poor mug is evidently about to give it a go. Good luck!

This tells me you need to know your market and serve exactly what it wants, at exactly the right price point, with exactly the right vibe. At least, in the more affluent markets. Personalities matter too, of course, but they're not enough on their own.

Tale of another 2 cafes :D

One was a fish n chip shop competing with a carvery (roast rolls and all that) a few doors down from one another. Both doing very well, profit for each after wages/rent about 250k pa. Down the street was an empty shop in prime location doing nothing.

Carvery owner wanted to sell up for about 250k goodwill. Carvery owner did not work the site, and had a manager/staff/point of sale system in place to stop most employee theft. New owner just had to pay the goodwill, keep an eye on it etc and break even in a year or so.

Fish n chip shop owners had the bright idea of buying the carvery, closing it down, expanding their premesis, and doing both carvery and fish n chips, because the covenants in that block of commercial property forbade another food store opening up - so they figured they could merge the businesses and save on managerial costs. Why they didn't just leave it there chipping away as it was, I'll never know.

Anyway they buy the carvery, merge the businesses, and then lo and behold, someone moves into the empty shopfront down the street (500m? not even?) and starts up a combination fish n chip chicken burger place serving large portions at decent prices ($9 for a giant burger sort of thing). Revenue from the original 2 businesses shrinks, while the new place has lunchtime lines snaking out the front door and around the corner - 5 serving staff jumping all over each other in a shop that cant be more than 25 square metres.

The original businesses start work at 5am and by the time they'er done, close up at about 10pm. The new shop starts work at about 7:30am and doors are shut at 5pm. They probably make a bit more than either of the original stores despite 25% reduced opening hours.

Equipment required for new shop:
one coolroom
2 bain maries
1 hotplate
one deep fryer
1 drinks fridge
one chicken rotisserie
2 cash registers
8 tables
30 chairs

total cost: 40k plus coolroom (they're hard to price. depends.)

Had a chat with the original business owners commenting on how well the new shop is going. Sour looks on their faces and their comment was "yeah, tried a burger there once - it was greasy. Nothing special."

I LOLed. Then his face went more sour. Then I LOLed harder. Then his face went even more sour. Then I felt bad :(
 
This is why you pay the right lawyers a lot of money so that if things don't work out you have some recourse. I could go into numerous clauses that would tie her up in court for months but alas I've paid thousands for such advice in the past. Next time you buy a business I'll pass on the details of some lawyers who can help you protect yourself.
 
Tale of another 2 cafes :D
. . .

Had a chat with the original business owners commenting on how well the new shop is going. Sour looks on their faces and their comment was "yeah, tried a burger there once - it was greasy. Nothing special."

I LOLed. Then his face went more sour. Then I LOLed harder. Then his face went even more sour. Then I felt bad :(

And what does this tell you, OA? If you're going to tell a tale there has to be a moral to the story. Did you learn nothing in kindergarten? Explain yourself, petulant child!

(And don't tell me that gravy on fish and chips is just plain wrong, I knew that from birth intuitively.)
 
This is why you pay the right lawyers a lot of money so that if things don't work out you have some recourse. I could go into numerous clauses that would tie her up in court for months but alas I've paid thousands for such advice in the past. Next time you buy a business I'll pass on the details of some lawyers who can help you protect yourself.

I do understand what you are saying but with a "hole in the wall" coffee place I just cannot see the pregnant owner signing any sale contract that ties her up in such a manner.
 
Yes agreed wylie it does require the other party to agree to such clauses. If they are using inexperienced lawyers or desperate for a sale then these clauses can frequently be overlooked.
 
This is why you pay the right lawyers a lot of money so that if things don't work out you have some recourse. I could go into numerous clauses that would tie her up in court for months but alas I've paid thousands for such advice in the past. Next time you buy a business I'll pass on the details of some lawyers who can help you protect yourself.

Over the top a bit mike ?

This is as explained a hole in the wall coffee shop that no one was roped into buying ? I dont get what she has done inheritently wrong like your tone suggests - why should the lady who sold the cafe be tied up in court ? she sold what she advertised to someone who was happy to pay for what she was offering ?

Besides "to get a better deal" I can't understand.

Who says the deal done was a bad one ?

If I buy a coffee shop and decide I'l lrun it myself like th eold owenr operator, and then Monday morning I realise I dont know how to use a coffee machine, is that the seller's fault ?
 
And what does this tell you, OA? If you're going to tell a tale there has to be a moral to the story. Did you learn nothing in kindergarten? Explain yourself, petulant child!

(And don't tell me that gravy on fish and chips is just plain wrong, I knew that from birth intuitively.)

The moral of the story is "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", and if someone hits you up for goodwill far in excess of what it would cost to fit out an equivalent enterprise, don't be shy to pull a megaphone out of your felix magic bag and yell "Ya Dreamin'!"
 
Just the way the contract can be set-up,with one simple clause that the former owner can't operate that type of business within a certain area of the business,and there would be various others that come to mind..

Agree, such a clause would be smart to incldue, how that would tie the seller of this particular up in court for months is still miles beyond my comprehension.

This is what I m querying with coastymike, what he meant by that.

As far I can read from the story, she has doen nothing but sell her business - what clause would tie her up in court & for what "wrongdoing" ?
 
Agree, such a clause would be smart to incldue, how that would tie the seller of this particular up in court for months is still miles beyond my comprehension.

This is what I m querying with coastymike, what he meant by that.

As far I can read from the story, she has doen nothing but sell her business - what clause would tie her up in court & for what "wrongdoing" ?

Assumedly, a clause in the contract that stated that actual future income and projected income would be in line, plus or minus x% deviation.

If the buyer didn't insist on such a clause or otherwise left it out, then imo, caveat emptor and congratulations on helping feed the SS gossip mill
 
Business is complicated...

Say a succesful owner sells a high $ making cafe

The new owner is crap whereas the previous owner was gdod, and susequently customers leave...

The old owner can get in trouble for this ?
 
The moral of the story is "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", and if someone hits you up for goodwill far in excess of what it would cost to fit out an equivalent enterprise, don't be shy to pull a megaphone out of your felix magic bag and yell "Ya Dreamin'!"

Great stuff! Clear as crystal. Now, what the heck's a felix magic bag, you freak?
 
Felix the cat, the wonderful wonderful cat, he reaches into his bag of tircks, and la da la da la da la

something like that
 
Great stuff! Clear as crystal. Now, what the heck's a felix magic bag, you freak?

When I was a little kid, there was a cartoon called Felix the Cat, and he had this little bag that he would reach into and pull anything and everything out of as part of whatever crap storyline passed as amusing for people under 5 years of age :)

I keep forgetting that half the people on this forum used to play with dinosaurs when they were little :p
 
Righty O! Got it now. Felix the friggin' mushroom-head cat's in on the act.

That'd be right. Just when I'd thought I'd put that nasty episode in Japan on an inhumanly packed peak-hour commuter train at the time with Hedrix inexplicably thundering oblivion and melting-wax salarymen coalescing into ravenous marauding hyenas well behind me, you go and bring it up! Yeerlghootwhn iip thalwaaaak, I think I might have said at the time.

Ahem. And now back to regular family programming . . . .
 
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