Interest rates under an Abbott government?

[Deltaberry]

My thoughts exactly. Labor was in power for 2 massive economic downturns. The early 90s and the 08 GFC. And a couple of minor ones.

Liberal was mostly in power for periods of uninterrupted global growth. The big one was 90s/early 2000s which was built on debt and imploded as the GFC in 08. Labor deals with this stuff and has handled it well.

But my problem is not with liberals financial record,it's the disgusting ethical and humane track record of the Howard era.

An inconvenient (and ignored) truth. But if the mad monk is our Pm next year he'll not have it so easy. Especially with the $11 billion black hole.

On a Federal level there's some truth to what you say.

Not at a state level though.

Victoria was virtually bankrupt thanks to the successive Cain Jr and Kirner governments. Kennett rescued the states.

Campbell has been handed a virtually bankrupt Queensland. I'll bet money that in 5 years Qld will emerge much stronger than it ever has been under the wasteful Bligh Govt.

 

[Belbo]

On a Federal level there's some truth to what you say.

Not at a state level though.

Victoria was virtually bankrupt thanks to the successive Cain Jr and Kirner governments. Kennett rescued the states.

Campbell has been handed a virtually bankrupt Queensland. I'll bet money that in 5 years Qld will emerge much stronger than it ever has been under the wasteful Bligh Govt.

Interesting. You're in Melbourne, right? No mention of the fact the Ballieu's budget's balance is down the dunny? Funny that. Keep up the great one-eyed spittle-licking effort (and that plane ticket handy for when you decide it's time to bail OS).

 

[Fifth]

On a Federal level there's some truth to what you say.

Not at a state level though.

Victoria was virtually bankrupt thanks to the successive Cain Jr and Kirner governments. Kennett rescued the states.

Oh yes, the glorious Kennett privatisation years. I was in high school at the time and vividly recall the frenzy of school 'amalgamations'. Now we have a shortage of high schools, particularly in the inner suburbs, but with the land long since sold off, there isn't much we can do about it without voters such as yourself getting their knickers in a knot over fiscal recklessness. This is just one example of many.

 

[THEGREAT888]

Do you really want to know what the Rudd-Gillard Labor governments' real crime has been? It's been that it simply hasn't had the political courage to upset the massive Howard-Costello swill trough of middle-class welfare handouts. As was noted midway through Rudd's term -



read more

This is where that $136b debt you keep harping on about actually originated. It's the vote-buying legacy of Howard & Costello's last few years when they ran out of ideas but could still milk a major mining boom. If Rudd & Swan had kicked over that trough before the GFC as they should have the country likely wouldn't even know Abbott's first name today!

Yes, we're all investors here, which is why we aren't as easily taken in as your regular mug punters.

As I remembered it, Costello started the middle class welfare when he announced that the country would like to have the family to have three children in the family" one for the country, one for mum and one for dad.

The cost of baby bonus and or increase or spike of family tax benefit in his ear have partly stimulate the economy and partly caused middle class welfare dependencies.

 

[evand]

All I can hear is crickets chirping.

 

[evand]

How can they be borrowing from overseas and paying that much interest when you've said repeatedly they got the money from Howard's surplus?

And regarding the surplus, if Howard's govt didn't run down public services and infrastructure and squirrel away money like the good little Menzies acolyte he is, there would be so much surplus.

I'll say it again, the funds for that surplus came from years of sustained global growth. Just lucky for him. And ill say this again so the blind right wingers get it. That growth was mostly built on debt, which awe know imploded as the GFC, and that poisoned chalice was handed to labor to deal with.

And if labor hadn't used the funds to stimulate the economy we'd be in a technical recession like Britain, half of europe, the states. Etc....

Fair enough chief - call it flat. I'm not going to argue over 272 vs 285 and 295 vs 302. Call it a round 300 if you want.

...but look at the end result....

One is +17, one is +20, then change of Govt and we have four horror numbers ina row { -27, -55, -47 and -37 }.

We are all property investors.

That sum is now attracting 6 billion in interest to service the debt racked up.

That interest bill won't go away until someone pays back the 136 billion we borrowed from overseas.

There is a reason Howard's last couple of years were so large in surplus. They weren't paying any interest cos the debt had been wiped out.

We can all understand that.

 

[Belbo]

An excellent article today from Peter Hartcher in the SMH explaining why Abbott is not ready to rule.

As Jeff Kennett - the darling of you Melbourne liberals - argues:

The former Liberal premier of Victoria, Jeff Kennett, put it this way: "If you ask Julia Gillard or Tony Abbott where they want Australia to be in 2050, I think they will look back at you with blank expressions. And most of the premiers are in the same category."

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/small-target-big-letdown-20120427-1xqco.html#ixzz1tIXPGaN2

Ballieu in Victoria and O'Farrell in NSW are proving abject failures because they came into office as raging ideologues rather than rational managers.

This is exactly what we are seeing in Abbott too, with failure already all too certain.

 

[Dazz]

Ballieu in Victoria and O'Farrell in NSW are proving abject failures because they came into office as raging ideologues rather than rational managers.

Give the guy a chance. Ballieu's mopping up Labor's mess, who've been in there since October 1999.

He's only been in the job 16 months.....far too early to say one way or t'other.


As for O'Farrell, he's mopping up Labor's mess, who've been in there since April 1995.

He's only been in the job 13 months !!

This is exactly what we are seeing in Abbott too, with failure already all too certain.

The guy hasn't even been voted in yet, and you've already written him off for a job he hasn't even been given the opportunity to commence ??

You are patently not being reasonable.

 

[Neil Young]

Interesting that you only look at 20 years

How about a layout for the post war years when the liberals ran budget deficits up to the 70s , at very high interest rates too .
Must have been shocking managers by your logic?

No worries penny.....it goes to the heart of whether a party is a competent economic manager of the country's finances or not.

Let's look at the last 20 years ;

FY.........Govt.......PM.............Surplus / Deficit

91-92.....Labor......Keating.......12.6 billion
92-93.....Labor......Keating.......18.1 billion
93-94.....Labor......Keating.......18.2 billion
94-95.....Labor......Keating.......14.2 billion
95-96.....Labor......Keating.......11.1 billion

96-97.....Liberal.....Howard.........6.1 billion
97-98.....Liberal.....Howard.........0.1 billion
98-99.....Liberal.....Howard.........3.9 billion
99-00.....Liberal.....Howard........13.0 billion
00-01.....Liberal.....Howard.........5.9 billion
01-02.....Liberal.....Howard.........1.1 billion
02-03.....Liberal.....Howard.........7.4 billion
03-04.....Liberal.....Howard.........8.0 billion
04-05.....Liberal.....Howard........13.6 billion
05-06.....Liberal.....Howard........15.7 billion
06-07.....Liberal.....Howard........17.2 billion
07-08.....Liberal.....Howard........19.7 billion

08-09.....Labor......Rudd............27.1 billion
09-10.....Labor......Rudd............54.7 billion
10-11.....Labor......Gillard...........47.7 billion
11-12.....Labor......Gillard...........37.1 billion


It doesn't take a genius penny to have a squizz at the table of results and see which political party is able to run a competent show or not.

If you can't see a distinctive pattern, then vote Labor.

It took a full decade of Liberal good work to erase the accumulated debt created by Keating's mess. It's staggerring to think how long it will take to clear up the carnage Swan et al are creating.

** Note...

1. See the dramatic turnaround a change of Govt has on the accounts in 96 and 97. No, it's not all about 'the circumstances'. Deliberate changes to Govt policy have dramatic effects, as can be seen by the swift turnaround from deficits in the tens of billions every year to surplus' every year.

2. Obviously the GFC is still with us, given Labor's deficit this year. Labor keep raving on how they guided Australia through the GFC.......well I dunno, looking at the deficits, it's far worse now than in 08 when apparently it hit.

3. Anyone who believes this Labor Govt can deliver a surplus is in cuckoo land. They simply don't have the competency level to do anything of the sort.

4. I suspect the Liberal Govt might be in power for another 12 years mopping this mess up.

5. People will look back on these figures in years to come and identify this shambles of a Green dictated Govt as the worst in Australia's history.

 

[Dazz]

I'm glad you find my posts interesting. However, my posts aren't the interesting bit, it's the official Govt certified numbers that are interesting.

How about a layout for the post war years

....sounds great Neil....happy to look at official Govt figures anyday - how about it ?? Let's have a squizz.

 

[Dan_p]

Dan, Dan, Dan.....



Under Labor, there ain't no surplus anywhere in sight. The confirmed 'black hole" is currently 136 billion and growing daily.


This country deserves better.

God help us.

 

[Belbo]

Give the guy a chance. Ballieu's mopping up Labor's mess, who've been in there since October 1999.

He's only been in the job 16 months.....far too early to say one way or t'other.


As for O'Farrell, he's mopping up Labor's mess, who've been in there since April 1995.

He's only been in the job 13 months !!

The [Abbott] guy hasn't even been voted in yet, and you've already written him off for a job he hasn't even been given the opportunity to commence ??

You are patently not being reasonable.

Hang on a sec! Let's just back that dump truck of yours up a bit.

When your sainted Coalition leaders (like Ballieu & O'Farrell now) are running budget deficits and are widely acknowledged by their electorates to be achieving absolutely sweet bugger all, you assert it's just 'cleaning up the mess' left by their Labor predecessors.

But when evil Labor leaders run budget deficits (despite these correlating with major recessions as I illustrated previously), it's obviously flagrant mismanagement and fiscal irresponsibility.

And you accuse me of being unreasonable. The hypocrisy!

All I ask is to know what is Abbott's great nation-building reform agenda (or for that matter, the genuine reform agenda any of these Liberal premiers)?

That's not unreasonable. It's my democratic right. Just as it's my democratic duty to speak up when it becomes patently obvious that there is no national reform agenda being offered by your lot.

Abbott's offering nothing we need. He's just offering a return to class warfare. No-one needs him in power to understand that. We can all see it's what he stands for in everything he says. But class warfare doesn't make the pie any bigger. It just takes from the weak to give a bigger portion to the powerful. And that game always has and always will end in failure, because it's stupid. The only thing that makes the pie bigger is genuine nation-building economic reform.

 

[Dazz]

And you accuse me of being unreasonable. The hypocrisy!

This sounds like I'm talking to some primped up, spoiled 14 yo American drama queen.

 

[turk]

When your sainted Coalition leaders (like Ballieu & O'Farrell now) are running budget deficits and are widely acknowledged by their electorates to be achieving absolutely sweet bugger all, you assert it's just 'cleaning up the mess' left by their Labor predecessors.

Don't know about O'Farrel but when has Ballieu ran a budget deficit, or are you just making up facts to suit your preconceived ideas?

Hardly an unbiased position to take when you claim to be politically neutral.

 

[Belbo]

When your sainted Coalition leaders (like Ballieu & O'Farrell now) are running budget deficits and are widely acknowledged by their electorates to be achieving absolutely sweet bugger all, you assert it's just 'cleaning up the mess' left by their Labor predecessors.

Don't know about O'Farrel but when has Ballieu ran a budget deficit, or are you just making up facts to suit your preconceived ideas?

Hardly an unbiased position to take when you claim to be politically neutral.

No, not made up Turk. You just won't find news of it in the comic pages.

 

[turk]

No, not made up Turk. You just won't find news of it in the comic pages.

Then show your links to where the Ballieu Government has a deficit to date?



Lets see which one of us is reading the comic pages.

 

[Belbo]

Then show your links to where the Ballieu Government has a deficit to date?



Lets see which one of us is reading the comic pages.

Friday's AFR page 18. Look it up.

 

[turk]

Friday's AFR page 18. Look it up.

I don't have a subscription to the AFR, please put up the link as requested?

Any budget figures that are current and in the public domain would be a
accessible through other sources,I can't find any current figures elsewhere can you?

Perhaps another member has access the the AFR article quoted by Belbo as showing that
current figures have the Vic budget in deficit and provide a quote and source?

 

[Dazz]

Any budget figures that are current and in the public domain would be accessible through other sources, I can't find any current figures else where can you?

Hi turk,

The Victorian Premier yesterday said there would be a surplus.

See link from Belbo's favourite SMH...http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-new...dows-surplus-for-victoria-20120427-1xpo0.html

 

[evand]

Maybe you guys get a different view of the NSW govt than what we do. Over here Ofarrell is getting to be really on the nose. As the previous party, he's doing SFA and trying to make it look much better than it is.

Meanwhile, im still waiting for replies to my queries to Dazz and Turk's credibility devoid posts..