My PPOR Renovations
- Thread starter Tim86
- Start date
I certainly learnt a thing or two reading the discussion so I'm glad you had it, not sure why people wanted it shut down.
Thanks for the informative posts as always.
Tim - you've done a great job with the renos, we'll done. Personally I consider perp to be among the most on the ball posters on this site so I'd at least double check to ensure I was right if there was something she disagreed with but that's just me.
Beat wishes with the rest of your project!
Thanks.
And yeah I bet you could find issues with what we are doing if you look hard enough. Council actually calculates how many people are living at the property by the sleeping accommodation. So if you have 3 double beds council says you must have six people staying there so you are over the 5 person limit. Even if it's only one bed per room/per tenant.
So with five queen beds like our house has we are technically housing 10 people according to council...double the allowable amount.
So it's pretty hard to do anything without breaking one or two stupid council rules along the way.
If council wants to bring up an issue here or there we can just work around it. But at this stage it's not really much of a concern. Especially considering the fact that there are a lot of places out there that are doing some pretty dodgy things with share accommodation.
Not too sure. I would be surprised if an insurance company tries to get out of paying due to the beds being too big or if there are two laundries rather than one.
On the other hand they may well try and get out of it if I didn't have smoke alarms for example. But I've got hardwired very expensive smoke alarms in every single room. And I've even got fire rated gyprock separating the levels, and that's not even a requirement.
But who knows.
I think it comes down to how much risk you're willing to accept; Tim's obviously comfortable with the risk re insurance, whereas I wouldn't sleep at night if I thought my insurance may be invalidated.
Further, Brisbane City Council do prosecute these matters and I think I recall that fines can be $1,000 for every day that you've illegally had a multiple tenancy, so again, I wouldn't be comfortable with that hanging over my head. It's not as easy as "oh well, if they tell me I'm doing the wrong thing I'll make good". I don't think BCC take such a laidback approach.
I'd also be concerned, at this point, as to whether my certifier was willing to sign off the building. The original plans on the first page of this thread I can see could be certified, as they clearly show a single residence, i.e. no internal barriers between sections of the house. But can you get a certifier to sign off on what's actually been built?
Further, Brisbane City Council do prosecute these matters and I think I recall that fines can be $1,000 for every day that you've illegally had a multiple tenancy, so again, I wouldn't be comfortable with that hanging over my head. It's not as easy as "oh well, if they tell me I'm doing the wrong thing I'll make good". I don't think BCC take such a laidback approach.
I'd also be concerned, at this point, as to whether my certifier was willing to sign off the building. The original plans on the first page of this thread I can see could be certified, as they clearly show a single residence, i.e. no internal barriers between sections of the house. But can you get a certifier to sign off on what's actually been built?
I think it comes down to how much risk you're willing to accept; Tim's obviously comfortable with the risk re insurance, whereas I wouldn't sleep at night if I thought my insurance may be invalidated.
Further, Brisbane City Council do prosecute these matters and I think I recall that fines can be $1,000 for every day that you've illegally had a multiple tenancy, so again, I wouldn't be comfortable with that hanging over my head. It's not as easy as "oh well, if they tell me I'm doing the wrong thing I'll make good". I don't think BCC take such a laidback approach.
I'd also be concerned, at this point, as to whether my certifier was willing to sign off the building. The original plans on the first page of this thread I can see could be certified, as they clearly show a single residence, i.e. no internal barriers between sections of the house. But can you get a certifier to sign off on what's actually been built?
There aren't multiple tenancies in place.
Furthermore the house hasn't been finished yet. There are internal steps to be put in etc... But even that's not an issue.
Considering the certifier signed off 3 very very similar setups that my dad did, I'm not worried. In fact my dad had a 3rd area in one with a 3rd kitchen, but was allowed to label it a wet bar and get it passed.
And that certifier goes by the book, and has passed these setups. Nothing illegal about it.
It's interesting what RPI wrote here regarding enforcement notices from council regarding multiple tenancy arrangments (granny flats, dual living):
"1. If the dwelling is on low density residential land
At the expiration of the term of the current lease agreement but no later than 12 months from the date of this enforcement notice, owners are required to regularise the use of the premises to ensure compliance with the House Code
-1 single lease agreement over whole premises
-1 letterbox, water meter, power meter
And then to either provide a stat dec that this has been done within 30 days of the completion of the works, or in some instances it is requiring certification of compliance"
The thing is, it's already 1 single lease agreement over the whole premises, and 1 letterbox, water meter, power meter.
To me that says that the big things council looks out for, and the things they want rectified, are all things that aren't an issue with my property.
Also on the council website, they talk about dual living involving not only sperate kitchen, bath, laundry, but also the renting of that to "multiple households".
And it seems the big things they use to judge whether or not it's multiple households, is whether there are multiple tenancy agreements, or mutiple letterboxes, power, and water.
So the way I see it, you can have multiple kitchens, in fact you can have a seperate granny flat, however it just can't be rented to multiple households. And the way council enforces this is by removing multiple tenancy agreements, etc...
I don't really see any big issues that council will have a problem with my setup. There might be some small issues that I don't know about, for example my dad mentioned something about possibly only being allowed 1 laundry in a property, but that's easy to fix. We will all just use the downstairs laundry. There isn't really a laundry upstairs anyway. Just going to temporarily put the washing machine on the deck.
The reason I'm not stressed is that we aren't doing anything glaringly wrong, or in breach of anything. And any issues will be easily fixed.
And even if there are issues, I'm not too sure where you got the $1000 a day penalty from. The cases that I've read about that were enforced by council usually went like RPI said, show cause notice submitted, enforcement notice submitted, remedy after current lease/no later than 12 months, if remedied all is well, but from what I've read the cases where council is ignored repeatedly seem to then result in fines and trips to court. Maybe at that stage council will try for a $1000 a day penalty?
"1. If the dwelling is on low density residential land
At the expiration of the term of the current lease agreement but no later than 12 months from the date of this enforcement notice, owners are required to regularise the use of the premises to ensure compliance with the House Code
-1 single lease agreement over whole premises
-1 letterbox, water meter, power meter
And then to either provide a stat dec that this has been done within 30 days of the completion of the works, or in some instances it is requiring certification of compliance"
The thing is, it's already 1 single lease agreement over the whole premises, and 1 letterbox, water meter, power meter.
To me that says that the big things council looks out for, and the things they want rectified, are all things that aren't an issue with my property.
Also on the council website, they talk about dual living involving not only sperate kitchen, bath, laundry, but also the renting of that to "multiple households".
And it seems the big things they use to judge whether or not it's multiple households, is whether there are multiple tenancy agreements, or mutiple letterboxes, power, and water.
So the way I see it, you can have multiple kitchens, in fact you can have a seperate granny flat, however it just can't be rented to multiple households. And the way council enforces this is by removing multiple tenancy agreements, etc...
I don't really see any big issues that council will have a problem with my setup. There might be some small issues that I don't know about, for example my dad mentioned something about possibly only being allowed 1 laundry in a property, but that's easy to fix. We will all just use the downstairs laundry. There isn't really a laundry upstairs anyway. Just going to temporarily put the washing machine on the deck.
The reason I'm not stressed is that we aren't doing anything glaringly wrong, or in breach of anything. And any issues will be easily fixed.
And even if there are issues, I'm not too sure where you got the $1000 a day penalty from. The cases that I've read about that were enforced by council usually went like RPI said, show cause notice submitted, enforcement notice submitted, remedy after current lease/no later than 12 months, if remedied all is well, but from what I've read the cases where council is ignored repeatedly seem to then result in fines and trips to court. Maybe at that stage council will try for a $1000 a day penalty?
I'm not sure I understand this, as I thought it was your property. Or do you mean that you're planning on moving out and renting out the whole premises to one other party?
Not moving out. But still only one tenancy agreement on whole property. And with us still living in the property we don't breach maximum number of individuals in the property.
So you're planning on letting out the whole downstairs to one family?
And will they be "tenants" or "residents" or "boarders/lodgers"?
https://www.rta.qld.gov.au/Resource...ets/Rooming-accommodation-coverage-fact-sheet
"What types of rooming accommodation are not covered under the Act?
If the provider/agent lives on the premises and there are not more than three rooms available for occupation (or occupied) by residents, then the Act does not apply."
Perp is that what you were refering to earlier, regarding the no more than 3 room exemption if you are living in the house with the tenants?
The rooming accommodation act wouldn't apply anyway:
"What is rooming accommodation?
Generally, rooming accommodation is where a resident rents a room as the main place they live and:
?the room is not self-contained, and
?they do not have right to occupy the entire premises in which the room is located, and
?they share facilities outside their room with other residents (e.g. bathroom, kitchen, common room)."
See tenants have the right to occupy the entire premises. So it's not classified as rooming accommodation.
"What types of rooming accommodation are not covered under the Act?
If the provider/agent lives on the premises and there are not more than three rooms available for occupation (or occupied) by residents, then the Act does not apply."
Perp is that what you were refering to earlier, regarding the no more than 3 room exemption if you are living in the house with the tenants?
The rooming accommodation act wouldn't apply anyway:
"What is rooming accommodation?
Generally, rooming accommodation is where a resident rents a room as the main place they live and:
?the room is not self-contained, and
?they do not have right to occupy the entire premises in which the room is located, and
?they share facilities outside their room with other residents (e.g. bathroom, kitchen, common room)."
See tenants have the right to occupy the entire premises. So it's not classified as rooming accommodation.
Finding 4 people to all go on the ONE tenancy agreement.
They are not restricted in where they live in the house. Although I doubt they will try to enforce their right to use the bathroom we use upstairs or the kitchen we use upstairs, especially when there is already ones downstairs and they are actually nicer than the ones we use upstairs.
So could they move into the main bedroom upstairs? Put all their furniture upstairs?
I'm sure they could if they had aspergers...
A bedroom is not a classified as a self contained residence. So me having my bedroom to myself, does not constitute a second residence:
"a self-contained residence that must include the following:
?food preparation facilities
?a bath or shower
?a toilet and wash basin
?clothes washing facilities."
http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/plan...residential-projects/dwellings/dual-occupancy
I'm pretty sure you're just going around in circles Perp and just bringing up things that have already been addressed...
Had a massive final push, working until 10:30pm at night this past week, to get the house finished off because we just had OUR FIRST TENANT move in yesterday, YAY!
There's been a massive amount of interest in the other 3 rooms as well. Had 3 people come through in one day this week!
So looks like the other rooms are going to go quick.
Will actually be able to slow down now. Been working myself into the ground lately, will be strange actually having a day where I don't work 12 hours.
Anyway that's all from me for now.
Will start the updates again when we start work on the extension out the back in about 6 months. The extension is going to have all the cool stuff in it (theatre room, games room, bar, etc..., so it should be good
There's been a massive amount of interest in the other 3 rooms as well. Had 3 people come through in one day this week!
So looks like the other rooms are going to go quick.
Will actually be able to slow down now. Been working myself into the ground lately, will be strange actually having a day where I don't work 12 hours.
Anyway that's all from me for now.
Will start the updates again when we start work on the extension out the back in about 6 months. The extension is going to have all the cool stuff in it (theatre room, games room, bar, etc..., so it should be good
Attachments
Just had the guy through for the valuation today.
Was a massive push getting the house ready for valuation, so exhausted. Latest pics attached of the outside.
Also finished off lots of bits and pieces inside that have been needing to be done for ages (random painting etc...)
Now for the nervous wait for what figure the valuer comes back with tomorrow morning so I can refinance and get some money to do the next project. Fingers crossed!
Was a massive push getting the house ready for valuation, so exhausted. Latest pics attached of the outside.
Also finished off lots of bits and pieces inside that have been needing to be done for ages (random painting etc...)
Now for the nervous wait for what figure the valuer comes back with tomorrow morning so I can refinance and get some money to do the next project. Fingers crossed!
