My PPOR Renovations

[Perp]

Hallway coming along.

I'm having trouble overlaying these images onto your floor plan on the first page. Where is the internal connection to upstairs?

Also, the kitchen appears to be described as "laundry" on the plans? Are you going to be able to get certified with cooking facilities installed?

 

[Tim86]

I'm having trouble overlaying these images onto your floor plan on the first page. Where is the internal connection to upstairs?

Also, the kitchen appears to be described as "laundry" on the plans? Are you going to be able to get certified with cooking facilities installed?

The internal stairs are going to be in the extension out the back. The extension will double the current size of the house.

The laundry/kitchen shouldn't be a drama, maybe just an amendment, but it is allowed according to the building code.

- I'm almost done with the 1st stage of the build, bathroom is coming along.

The goals is to be able to have it ready enough to throw up a rental advert for some rooms on xmas day.

-Note: I haven't grouted the shower with grey grout, I just haven't grouted the white tiles with the white grout yet so it looks grey. I hate it when people grout white tiles with grey grout.

 

[Perp]

The laundry/kitchen shouldn't be a drama, maybe just an amendment, but it is allowed according to the building code.

It's not the building code I was concerned about but the planning. Do you have a development approval for multi-family occupancy?

 

[Tim86]

It's not the building code I was concerned about but the planning. Do you have a development approval for multi-family occupancy?

It's not multi-family occupancy.

You're allowed a second kitchen in your property. In fact you're allowed 3 if you set it up as 1 primary, 1 granny flat, 1 wet bar with a plug in on bench cooker.

Tenants downstairs are technically entitled to access for the whole house. However I doubt they will try to exercise this technical freedom. So it's simply a share house. Which means no more than 5 individuals on the tenancy agreement. As me and my wife are married we count as one, so we can rent out the 4 spare rooms to 4 more people.

You would get in trouble if you rented out the downstairs area advertising it as "dual occupancy" and telling people that they have their own "flat" and that they can rent that completely seperately to the rest of the house. And they have their own discreet entrance, own electricity meter, etc...

In that case you've just set your house up like a unit block and you would need to fit the required council codes (multi unit dwelling/medium density, etc...)

With low density residential you can even have a granny flat, but it can only be rented to the one household, aka the one tenancy agreement. So even if downstairs is classified as a granny flat because of the 2nd kitchen, it doesn't matter because it's all getting rented to the one household, not seperate tenancy agreements.

 

[Perp]

I honestly don't know if the planning has loosened a lot since I last looked into it, or whether you're mistaken.

My understanding is as follows.

You don't want to be rooming accommodation because you're not zoned for multi-tenancy, so you want your tenants to be "tenants" (per the Residential Tenancies and Rooming Accommodation Act 2008).

But the exemption for part-occupation of a premises - whereby they can be "tenants" rather than "residents" - only applies if you let out 3 rooms or less, per s 44(1)(a)(ii).

Therefore it seems to me that your only legal option is for them to be classed as boarders or lodgers, in which case you can't have them on leases, and also, I think that'll be hard to establish without them having access to the whole premises, and with them having their own kitchen.

I also didn't think you could rent out a granny flat separately to the main household in Queensland without approval for multi-tenancy; you could only let members of your own household - e.g. extended family or a friend - live in it, but they couldn't be on a lease agreement.

 

[Tim86]

I honestly don't know if the planning has loosened a lot since I last looked into it, or whether you're mistaken.

My understanding is as follows.

You don't want to be rooming accommodation because you're not zoned for multi-tenancy, so you want your tenants to be "tenants" (per the Residential Tenancies and Rooming Accommodation Act 2008).

But the exemption for part-occupation of a premises - whereby they can be "tenants" rather than "residents" - only applies if you let out 3 rooms or less, per s 44(1)(a)(ii).

Therefore it seems to me that your only legal option is for them to be classed as boarders or lodgers, in which case you can't have them on leases, and also, I think that'll be hard to establish without them having access to the whole premises, and with them having their own kitchen.

I also didn't think you could rent out a granny flat separately to the main household in Queensland without approval for multi-tenancy; you could only let members of your own household - e.g. extended family or a friend - live in it, but they couldn't be on a lease agreement.

It's not part occupation.

Tenants technically have access to the whole house.

It is one household.

I didn't say you could rent out a granny flat seperately to the main household, I said you could only rent it out as one household.

I might be mistaken, and happy to be corrected. But my understanding is that you only start having issues when you try to seperate areas and rent to multiple households.

 

[Perp]

It's not part occupation.

Oh, so the individual rooms won't be lockable?

 

[Tim86]

Oh, so the individual rooms won't be lockable?

Where does it say bedrooms can't have locks on them?

Are you refering to discreet entry? Which is where someone has access to a "self contained area" (aka own bathroom and kitchen) via discreet entry seperate to the rest of the house?

I'm pretty sure a bedroom isn't classed as a self contained area seperate from the house just because it has a lock on the door.

"Definition

The City Plan defines a dual occupancy as the use of a premises where it contains two dwellings on one lot (whether or not attached) for separate households.

A dwelling is a building or part of a building used or capable of being used as a self-contained residence that must include the following:
-food preparation facilities
-a bath or shower
-a toilet and wash basin
-clothes washing facilities."

http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/plan...residential-projects/dwellings/dual-occupancy

 

[Nemo30]

Let's not derail the thread - I'm sure Tim has it all under control.

 

[Perp]

"Definition

The City Plan defines a dual occupancy as the use of a premises where it contains two dwellings on one lot (whether or not attached) for separate households.

A dwelling is a building or part of a building used or capable of being used as a self-contained residence that must include the following:
-food preparation facilities
-a bath or shower
-a toilet and wash basin
-clothes washing facilities."

http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/plan...residential-projects/dwellings/dual-occupancy

Right, that's precisely my point - by putting in the kitchen facilities downstairs you've defeated any claim that it's not a dual occupancy...

 

[Perp]

Let's not derail the thread - I'm sure Tim has it all under control.

Surely people are wanting to learn and find out what's possible for themselves. If this plan isn't viable, I would think that's rather on point.

 

[Perp]

I'm pretty sure a bedroom isn't classed as a self contained area seperate from the house just because it has a lock on the door.

No, but single households don't usually have locks on bedroom doors; other members of the household can walk in and out. The presence of locks on the doors would be more evidence that those bedrooms are being used by people who are not part of a single household.

I'm not trying to rain on your parade, but save you a world of pain if my suspicions are correct.

I've been through this. These are the things that Council considers relevant.

 

[Nemo30]

Surely people are wanting to learn and find out what's possible for themselves. If this plan isn't viable, I would think that's rather on point.

Given they probably wont live in Tim's council area or even state, its irrelevant and bordering on argumentative and spoiling an otherwise excellent thread.

Given its Tim's thread, i'll leave it to him.

 

[Tim86]

Given they probably wont live in Tim's council area or even state, its irrelevant and bordering on argumentative and spoiling an otherwise excellent thread.

Given its Tim's thread, i'll leave it to him.

It's all good.

There's no criticism from perp.

If he was saying something like "Tim you're an absolute bloody idiot, why are you doing..."

Then obviously it would be an issue.

But Perp is just trying to get his head around it. Which is fine.

Perp from previous posts by RPI, the main things council looks for is a seperate meter, multiple tenancy agreements, and discreet access to a self contained area for each seperate household.

I have none of those things with this setup.

I vaguely remember talking to him about this setup in a previous thread, and I think his comment was that as long as the tenants are technically allowed access to upstairs as well, then there shouldn't be a problem.

I'll see if I can dig up his comments.

 

[Mr. Fabulous]

There's no criticism from perp.

If he was saying something like "Tim you're an absolute bloody idiot, why are you doing..."

Perp is a chick, dude.

 

[Perp]

Perp is a chick, dude.

Last time I checked. But that's OK.

 

[Tim86]

Actually looks like this conversation is still continuing in a post by RPI: http://somersoft.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84721&highlight=tim86&page=4

Probably can continue talking about this stuff in that thread so we don't derail this thread and we can get back to me posting pictures and complaining about renovating

Sorry female Perp. It's hard to judge a gender by some screen names, and you've all got my male voice in my head when I read what you all say so I jump to conclusions

But yes looks like my situation with the house is probably in a bit of a grey area at this stage. Will have to keep an eye on RPI's updates.

But one thing is for sure. If I rented out the rooms with multiple tenancy agreements, then I would be in trouble. The goal is to keep it all under the one household definition.

 

[Tim86]

Light and fan installed in the first bedroom today

 

[Tim86]

Still got to put up some lights, some handrails, some doors, and finish some painting, but besides that, stage one is pretty much complete. Should be 100% in the next couple of weeks

 

[Tim86]

And some more pictures...