My top 10 reasons as to why a world depression will not occur

Dear CIGAs,

This is the BIG KAHUNA!!!
This injection of liquidity will reverberate around the globe for years to come as inflationary and dollar damaging beyond your wildest imagination. This is so big that there has to be many financial institutions in big trouble.
http://www.jsmineset.com/home.asp
There are two basic ways you can look at whats happening around all world
markets,you can blame all the greedy human beings,brokers,loan sharks,
fast buck animals,and anyone else that springs to mind or you can just
smile and look at all the stupidity that is around this time of year,
share price volatility is nothing new ,and for a simple buy and hold
longterm person like myself it's all just another bump in the investment
road, if you think that this is the final downward spiral,then sell everything
wack it all in the bank,then let the bank fall into the gutter,at least you can
blame someone,this correction will stop at some level what levels that will
be is almost impossible to pin down and in the morning it will be the same as
friday,just ask yourself how many people will this mess worry in 12 weeks
time,i not worried 1%,just stay happy and learn from the experience
after all experience is not what happens to you experience is what you do with what has happened to you..
willair..
 
From ABC News....


Similarities to 1929 Depression...NOT

"Robert Skidelsky: The things that are similar are, first of all, that you have unlimited capital mobility, and therefore lots of hot money sloshing round, with banks, businesses and governments who have borrowed heavily in the international capital market, and obviously face huge losses if those funds are withdrawn.....And the second similarity is that there's a feeling that no-one's in charge of the world economy, and therefore it's very difficult to co-ordinate a policy. So I think both of those things were present in 1929, and led to the financial collapse and run of bank failures, and the gradual slide into depression."


Worried? Well that is not today's news, that was back in 1998 and it hasn't happended yet and so here is another perspective as the converation continues...

"But on the other hand, there are important differences which make things much more hopeful. For one thing, countries aren't linked to a rigid gold standard as they were in 1929, and therefore they can break loose more easily. Secondly, there's the IMF which is a lender of the last resort, which we didn't have in 1929. And finally, we know how to disengage economies more easily from the effect of financial shocks."


Tim
 
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todays editorial

TO ALL young investors, speculators and novice finance journalists in Australia this is a special time in your life, because next time your father says "you haven't seen a crash", you can reply "yes, I have." Comment by Tim Treadgold.


Greed, the emotion which drove the market for the past five years, has flipped to fear. Essentially, the two are much the same – and both are irrational.

Just as the share prices of some companies rose without any visible means of support, so will companies fall for much the same lack of reason.

Before looking at what's happening, a brief diversion into the world of definitions, and the core question: is this a crash?

The correct answer: it depends where you're standing; if you own shares in rock solid businesses with recurrent cash flow, no. Companies such as BHP Billiton, Rio Tinto and Oxiana, are passing through a correction.

If, however, you own shares in exploration companies which are a long way from producing anything, and have not topped up their capital with a recent share issue, then you are watching a crash.

Overall, the mining market is close to crash territory. The metals and mining index on the Australian Stock Exchange (XMM) was down 19.4% this morning from its mid-July high.

Anything above 20% is technically a crash, and that's where you'll find some of the recent stock market darlings.

Fortescue Metals Group, for example, has fallen from its all-time high a few months ago of $41.75 to trade today at around $25.99, a fall of 37.7% - technically a crash.

Jubilee Mines is down 38.9% from $18.44 to $11.26.

Mincor is down 47.6% from $5.10 to $2.67.

And Independence is down 50% from $8.90 to $4.41.

What now?

Time is the only cure for the ills sweeping the market – and a belief that the fundamentals underpinning the resources boom have not gone away.

All that has been lost in the crash (or correction if you're feeling a little shell-shocked) is the speculative hype which drove shares to ridiculous heights.

What's causing the big sell-off is a combination of reality dawning, and a rush by gamblers (sorry, speculators) to unwind their positions ahead of margin calls which will come from their banks and friendly stockbroking firms which so liberally loaned money in the first place.

The real danger over the next few days is that the United States credit crunch could see some of that country's over-geared hedge funds collapse under a wall of recall notices.

Last night was the time for US investors to lodge recall notices for September 30 payment.

Today is the time when those hedge funds should let the world know how much cash they are going to have to cough up – and whether they can.

The next few days is when a snowball effect could take hold, like this:

1. Hedge fund investors ask for their money back.
2. The hedge fund lacks the cash to repay (a classic 'run on the bank' scenario).
3. The hedge fund goes to the bank to borrow cash.
4. The bank says no.
5. The hedge fund closes, or is forced into a fire sale liquidation of its assets which could include commodities (gold, oil base metals), or equities.

Fear of what comes in the next few days, caused to some extent (quite remarkably) by a crisis in mortgage lending to bad borrowers, is why the Australian market is in crisis today.

The good news, and yes there is some, is that real demand in the global economy for metals, minerals and fuel, has not disappeared.

China has its problems, such as a ruined environment and dodgy exports, but they can be fixed.

In the 1950s, when Japan led the way, the quality of its exports was as bad as what's coming out of China today. Over time, quality was improved, and today Japan is a world leader in quality.

China will do the same, and its demand for raw materials will continue to grow despite the odd speed bump along the way.

The problem for investors in speculative shares is that the repercussions from those speed bumps can be very unpleasant
 
Nice post aussierogue. I agree with your assessment of the risks, and that the underpinning demand isn't going to disappear just because some speculators got scared and all sold at once in a hurry! :)
 
Geoff sorry abt that - im not very offay with these rules - this came from Miningnews.com

cheers
That's a start.

Do you have a url for the article please? I can fix it to have a link back to the original article. The people who write the articles are much better with that.
 
Interesting. See below. From Wikipedia:

On August 28th, 2006, Art Laffer appeared on Kudlow & Company[4] to debate Peter Schiff, president of Euro Pacific Capital. Laffer made a bet with Schiff that there wouldn't be a recession, and that the housing bubble wouldn't bust in the next year or two. Both agreed to put their credibility on the line and the winner would receive a penny.

Laffer appeared almost two years after that interview, on "Real Time with Bill Maher", on October 24, 2008. Maher asked him, "Have you paid off that bet?" Laffer replied that he had not.
 
And now the US is throwing not billions but trillions at industry including the troubled steel industry.
Where do they get all this money since they are in debt.
I am no expert but I have read from many books over the years that predicted this and also added that it fundamentally is the worse thing you can do!.
I think a little lateral thinking is in order, maybe instead of giving it to big business they should instead abolish gst and abolish taxes for all employees under a certain income.
Encourage new ideas and small business with lump sum subsidies.
Let the stock market and big business implode, who needs it!.
 
Interesting thread back in 2006 there were some SS investors still contiributing with their feet firmly on tierra firma.

Where all all those 2008 SS investors who said that China' s economy was going to continue to grow exponentially through 2009 with australia reaping the benifits?
 
Lets revisit what I actually did say:

My top 10 reasons as to why a world depression will not occur

1. The inevitable and unstoppable industrialisation of China
2. The inevitable and unstoppable industrialisation of India
3. Perfect Capital Mobility
4. International institutions
5. International communications / travel
6. Lessons learnt from the past
7. Lender of Last Resort
8. The nature of western societies
9. The public sector
10. The military

Firstly, you'll notice that I used the word "DEPRESSION", not "RECESSION" - there's a HUGE difference between those two.

Lets look at what has happened and is happening:
  • (1) China and (2) India continue to grow (albeit at a slower rate)
  • (3) Capital is flowing like crazy around the world atm in an attempt to mitigate this downturn
  • (4) International Institutions (IMF, BoE, ECB, Fed, etc) are all getting in on the act
  • (5) There's alot more co-ordination of international responses (countries are talking to each other)
  • (6) This is all different to what happened in the great depression in terms of responses
  • (7) LLR has been used

Now, it is not expected that a global depression will occur, and if you look at that list of reasons I gave, then I'm at least 7/10 on that list, and possibly as much as 9/10 when you take account of the (8) consumer and (9) fiscal stimuli that are currently in place (and expected to continue into 2009)
 
And now the US is throwing not billions but trillions at industry including the troubled steel industry.
Where do they get all this money since they are in debt.

old money

I am no expert but I have read from many books over the years that predicted this and also added that it fundamentally is the worse thing you can do!.
I think a little lateral thinking is in order, maybe instead of giving it to big business they should instead abolish gst and abolish taxes for all employees under a certain income.

i agree. incentives are what is required, not handouts. and the incentives shouldn;t just be a tax-deduction like that stupid $8000 idea Rudd Rudd Ruddy Rudd Rooster had a while back.

Encourage new ideas and small business with lump sum subsidies.
Let the stock market and big business implode, who needs it!.

yeah - nothing like letting your largest and probably only taxpayers crumble when you've given tax breaks to all your little lemmings. i look forward to the implementation of a cold war Ukraine in Australia.

China's growth was revised from 9% down to 6.5% over the break.

that's still healthy - China have been running down their stockpiles and are now having to re-open mills that were shut down 6m ago.
 
  • (3) Capital is flowing like crazy around the world atm in an attempt to mitigate this downturn

Mark,

Can you give examples of Capital money flowing?

And, in your definition, what is Depression?

What is Recession?

How can we tell a Recession from a Depression?

Thanks.
 
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