Obama Wins!

[Pushka]

The victory speech he gave was inspiring; it would have been inspiring if he was a WASP; or Jewish or whatever. His ancestry will make no difference as to whether he will make a good President. There have been many good African American people who would have made good Presidents over the years, but hell would have frozen over first. Nothing to do with talent at all. People would not vote for them, not because they were not good enough, but just because they were black.

So at last, the US has recognised that you can be good enough to be President, and black too!

 

[Mr. Fabulous]

Face it Pushka, a lot of the people that voted for him determined that he would make a good President because he's black (well, half black). That doesn't just mean black people, it also includes idiots suffering from white guilt. Will he be good? I dunno, maybe. Depends on what your criteria for a 'good' President is. If you think being a good President is carrying on business as usual, then you're right.

It boggles the mind that people actually think he's going to make sweeping changes to the status quo. But I guess if you repeat the same one line over and over and over eventually people are going to believe you. When are people going to wake up and realise that the Democrats (and most other former left parties in the West) have been creeping slowly slowly further and further to the right? Obama is, at best, only slightly to the left of the Republicans. He's not going to ignore his corporate masters, just like Bush I & II, Bill Clinton, Ronald Reagan and others before them didn't either. At least the Republicans don't pretend to care.

Those campaign donations aren't made from the bottom of one's heart, but to increase the bottom line of one's profit.

Mark

 

[BayView]

Seems to me that a prerequisite to winning an election these days is getting the media onside.

And a very large check book. Disgusting how much money is wasted on bulldust.

Could build half a dozen schools for all the hot air they all spout.

I reckon; get all the candidates, line em up on TV for a month before the election; same ad budget, same amount of air time and timeslots.

Then one open debate with all present and that's it.

Now time to vote.

If the Yanks need two years to make up their minds (and they do); they are total d*ckheads.

4 weeks max.

 

[jesskaye101]

I do not believe Barack Obama won the Presidency because he was black.

Idealistic? Yes.

Should the world be cynical? Probably!

But....

The rhetoric of universal health care, withdrawing troups from Iraq, increasing spending in infrastructure to kick start the embattered US domestic economy....these are not new ideas (Hilary Clinton tried during her husband's Presidency on the health care).

That said...

I say things are ripe for change (ironically) because of the global credit crisis. Suddenly all that 'old' money can't manipulate and sway the apathetic non-voting majority any longer into simply continuing to stay away from the polling booths as they have for generations. The internet has revolutionised the way in which information is dispersed, the way in which funds can be raised and can reach into the bedrooms of the so called 'lost x/y'ers' who can not be reached thorugh more traditional marketing means. Indeed even in the ways voters can cast their vote - electronically anyone? Obama's campaign also struck a chord with older voters who have been short changed by successive Republican and Democratic administrations.

Black or white, the gaffes of the Bush administration, the lack of any new credible alternative in McCain would have all but handed the opposing Democrat candidate the keys to the White House even before the credit melt down. How exciting then, to have a President such as Barack Obama. I'd be delusional to say he's got a high chance of reforming the way politics and government plays out in the United States any time soon. But I truly and sincerely hope he succeeds. He's inspired me!!!! And I never bothered to listen to a single one of his speeches or read a single policy issue or transcipt until after he won the election. Maybe because I'd become apathetic???

 

[Jamie]

i actually thought mccains speah was better... there was lots of praise, and he spoke like a gentleman regarding obamas victory.

IMO they were both good people, just mccain didnt look so good, because bush stained him.

McCain voted with Bush over 90% of the time during his time in the Senate, and has even used that statistic in his stump speeches to placate the hard core right-wingers. He used to pride himself on voting with Bush, until it became politically expedient not to do so.

You can see him say it for himself here: http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=uThoBMfcFRc

He wasn't "stained" by Bush ... he was stained by being a member of a political party based on hatred and fear, and characterised by the complete disregard for education and knowledge at the altar of the religious zealot.

Finally, after 8 years, commonsense prevails in the U.S.

Jamie.

 

[Jamie]

Face it Pushka, a lot of the people that voted for him determined that he would make a good President because he's black (well, half black). That doesn't just mean black people, it also includes idiots suffering from white guilt.

A lot? How many is that? More than 1? Care to use facts rather than projections? I can't remember a more ridiculous assertion in my 6 years on this forum.

African Americans comprise about 11% of the U.S population ... how are you with a calculator Mark? How mant "idiots" are there suffering from "white guilt"? Your ignorance continues to astound me.

You obviously can't stand the new US President. What I find most ironic is that, when you were on the dole for 10 years before Steve gave you a job, you were quite happy to suck the life out of the Australian tax payer, and now you disavow the "socialist" policies which kept a roof over your head, paid for your beer and cigarettes, and generally kept you alive.

Wasn't it us tax payers that kept you in new skateboards and smokes for nearly a decade?

You ARE the problem. WE are looking for the solution.

Jamie.

 

[Mr. Fabulous]

A lot? How many is that? More than 1? Care to use facts rather than projections? I can't remember a more ridiculous assertion in my 6 years on this forum.

African Americans comprise about 11% of the U.S population ... how are you with a calculator Mark? How mant "idiots" are there suffering from "white guilt"? Your ignorance continues to astound me.

You obviously can't stand the new US President. What I find most ironic is that, when you were on the dole for 10 years before Steve gave you a job, you were quite happy to suck the life out of the Australian tax payer, and now you disavow the "socialist" policies which kept a roof over your head, paid for your beer and cigarettes, and generally kept you alive.

Wasn't it us tax payers that kept you in new skateboards and smokes for nearly a decade?

You ARE the problem. WE are looking for the solution.

Jamie.

Wow. Where are Obama's socialist policies? A lot of people say he's against the war - but he's been in support of the war from the beginning, he only claimed to be against it when it may have meant losing votes, which is the only time it counts for any politician. My politics have always leaned to the extreme left. I like our socialist policies here in Australia and abhor the U.S. 'welfare for the rich while throwing the poor and working class on the garbage heap' policies. Do you think Obama is going to do anything to change that? Well... I genuinely hope you're right. But I'm not holding my breath.

You know what I think is really going to happen? He's going to tell the country to tighten it's collective belt while giving all his rich mates a free ride, like every other President in history has done.

You're right though - I don't like the new U.S. President. If it had been McCain, I still wouldn't like the new U.S. President (in fact, if it was McCain, I'd like him much less). I didn't like the ones that came before him either. Republican/Democrat - it doesn't matter, they're all the same. You insinuate that I'm a racist or a bigot because I believe he was voted in for being black. Do you think he would have gotten as many votes if he was white? Do you think so many people would have registered to vote if he was white? I freely admit, I have no idea, but I'm quite confident that should any studies be done on it, the answer would be an emphatic NO. As I stated in another post, leaders should be elected based on their policies, not their skin colour. I also stated that of the two candidates, I prefered him, but I guess it was easier for you to ignore that so you could push your agenda.

I openly believe that he will do nothing other than maintain the situation as it has been since the creation of Government - that those with the money are the ones that get the privilege. That's how it's always been and that's how it always will be.

As for your remarks about me personally: When was I on the dole for ten years? Call me crazy, but I'm pretty sure I had a full time job which I'd held for a number of years before Steve offered me a job and also a number of jobs previous to that one. But hey, maybe that was all just a figment of my imagination. You might want to check your facts before you make such wild accusations. Yeah, I was getting benefits, that's no big secret. But I was also working. I am forever grateful for our socialist system, as the alternative - soaring crime rates just so people can survive, ala the U.S., doesn't really appeal to me.

Also, would you care to explain how I am the problem and you are looking for the solution? It's a real pity you felt the need to attack me personally Captain America, I always thought you were above such below the belt tactics. You didn't seem to have such a low opinion of me when you suggested we meet for drinks when you were in Brisbane a while back.

Mark

 

[Mr. Fabulous]

Okay, this is my view on it in a nutshell:

- Do I think Obama would have won regardless? Yes
- Do I think this is a good thing, considering the alternative? Yes
- Do I think he would have won by such a wide margin if he was white? Not even close.

Mark

 

[BayView]

Face it Pushka, a lot of the people that voted for him determined that he would make a good President because he's black (well, half black). That doesn't just mean black people, it also includes idiots suffering from white guilt.

No exaggeration here at all - 100% of the Yanks we met in the US in our 3 years there HATED geedubya, and he's a Republican.

Then, along comes Grandad McCain - another Rep, who echoes similarly to GW.

No-one we ever talked to were going to vote for Barry-O because of his colour.

It was all about what the Reps and GW specifically had done to the Country. They are ashamed.

The issue was all about the economy and the damage to their reputations around the world.

The only people coming out of the woodwork to vote for Barry-O who wouldn't normally vote for him were the blacks themselves, and a few politically conscious Gen Y's and teenagers who also hated the geedubya legacy and Iraq-gate.

How much of a percentage difference that made I wouldn't know, but in past years their numbers (blacks, Gen Y's and teenagers) were very low as a rule. They don't have to vote; so they don't.

Colour? - not the issue (unless you are black).

 

[Perp]

No exaggeration here at all - 100% of the Yanks we met in the US in our 3 years there HATED geedubya, and he's a Republican.

I visited the USA several times during Dubya's presidency, and I would have to say I experienced the same - people constantly apologising for their President, in California, in Maryland, in Colorado, in DC, and in Illinois. So where were all the people who voted for him? I'm not a conspiracy theorist, so I don't think there was wholesale electoral fraud. I can only conclude that it was a combination of: 1) people in the circles I mixed in didn't vote for Dubya, and 2) those who did vote for Dubya were too embarrassed to say so.

 

[WinstonWolfe]

No exaggeration here at all - 100% of the Yanks we met in the US in our 3 years there HATED geedubya, and he's a Republican.
.

so I don't think there was wholesale electoral fraud. I can only conclude that it was a combination of: 1) people in the circles I mixed in didn't vote for Dubya, and 2) those who did vote for Dubya were too embarrassed to say so.

The election outcome map below will add some objectivity to the following cognitive biases of your views - confirmation bias, bandwagon effect, congruence bias, attentional bias, clustering illusion, observer-expectancy effect, postive outcome bias, selection bias, false consensus effect, herd instinct, ingroup bias, and projection bias.

Interestingly, some might like to know the US census bureau says 45% of US children under 5 are from minority groups (non white), It won't be too long before the USA is not a white dominant nation, the projected date being regularly revised forwards.

Regarding the election, I thought all republican candidates were weak and Bush has let Iraq go on too long, and yet they still scored 46% of the vote. Nevertheless, one must take seriously the repercussions of Obama gaining power by making promises every serious economist and political analyst says cannot be kept. This says a lot about the education of his supporters who tend to not have heard 'there's no free lunch'.

The future of the USA will be very interesting. As current demographic trends unfold, it will be more difficult for a conservative Republican party to win power. The growing Hispanic population is on the whole likely to vote for larger government that guarantees milk and honey for all. With the combination of white progressives and the democratic party's efforts to motivate minorities to vote, conservative pro free market government in the USA is likely to be a thing of the past.

The USA over the coming decades is going to learn a profound and difficult lesson about democracy, as rule by the majority.

source
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2008

 

[WinstonWolfe]

One should also keep in mind media bias during the election. With so much pro Obama noise going on in the media, no wonder Republican supporters felt it better not to voice their opinion in public.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2008

"The Project for Excellence in Journalism and Harvard University's Joan Shorenstein Center on the Press, Politics and Public Policy conducted a study of 5,374 media narratives and assertions about the presidential candidates from 2008 January 1 through 2008 March 9. The study found that Obama and Clinton received 69 percent and 67 percent favorable coverage, respectively, compared to only 43 percent favorable media coverage of McCain.[80] This trend widened following the presidential conventions, with an October 29 study of 43 news outlets finding 29 percent of stories about Obama to be negative, compared to 57 percent of stories about McCain being negative. This was most apparent on MSNBC, where 73 percent of McCain stories were negative compared to 14 percent for Obama.[81] Public perception of the media mirrored this trend, with an October 22 Pew Research Center poll finding that 70 percent of registered voters believed journalists wanted Barack Obama to win the election, as opposed to 9 percent for John McCain.[82]
According to a post-election Pew research survey, 67% of voters thought that the press fairly covered Obama versus 30% who viewed the coverage as unfair. Regarding McCain 53% view his press coverage as fair versus 44% who characterized it as unfair. Around 83% of Democrats believe the press fairly covered Obama compared to just 22% of Republicans who thought the press was fair to McCain. In 2004, 40% of Republicans thought the press was fair to Bush and 67% of Democrats believed it was fair to Kerry. [83]"

 

[tubs]

Have to agree with Mark here.

People are saying that America has needed a black president, and what a great thing it is that it has happened.

Actually, the US needs a president who can...
- Drag it out of a massive financial mess
- Get it out of the wars they're in
- Fix a lot of the social problems plaguing them.

Obama's policies seem to be thin on the ground. I'm not saying he'll make a better or worse president than McCain. I'm just saying that his skin colour is a very low priority in the US at the moment, whereas so many people are making it out to be the most important thing.

Also, is this REALLY something that has broken down racial divides...or created them? I did not see one black McCain supporter, but plenty of them in support of Obama. Perhaps this highlights racial divides in the US more than anything.

 

[BayView]

One should also keep in mind media bias during the election. With so much pro Obama noise going on in the media, no wonder Republican supporters felt it better not to voice their opinion in public.

My experience was through talking to people I met in everyday life.

And, I never gave my opinion until the mood was established - don't want to end up with a bullet in the head or a knife in my neck. As is their want.

You can tell when people are simply lipservicing the anti-geedubya line, and when the people are about to rupture a vein in their neck.

Everyone I met was about to rupture a vein.

AND, many were Reps.

I think down in the "deeb sayerth" you'd find one or two "geedubya lurvers".

Gardamit, boy!

 

[WinstonWolfe]

And, I never gave my opinion until the mood was established - don't want to end up with a bullet in the head or a knife in my neck. As is their want.

The thing is the mood of the nation was very much magnified by a pro Obama media that understood the public's frustration and fear about current and future circumstance.

Obama was a great speaker, even motivational, certainly energetic and generally positive.

OTOH, McCain was flat, vaccuous, angry even, and his crusty patchwork of policies didn't carry the energy to reverberate hope for the future after he finished speaking, nor before. Sarah didn't hit the deck running with a torch shining bright to show the way forwards for a fearful and uncertain nation. The Republicans did not have a plan or a candidate who read and manipulated the mood of the nation, especially a nation every year more populated with minority underclasses.

Nevertheless, a candidate from either side could have won if they spoke with considered force, confidence, and a clarity of understanding and purpose on how to mobilize the nation's greatest resource, the positive individual spirit within all.

IMHO, the US and the world has some difficult times ahead, but the courage, strength, and spirit of all to face the truth, and forge ahead soberly, wisely, and determined, is what is needed to quickly end this hangover of excess credit and apathy of will.

My concern is, Obama is falling into the same temptation as others have done in history, to print money borrowed against future productivity, to prop up a system where the weak need to die and the resourceful and energetic and inspired take their place.

My hope is, Obama is intelligent enough to get the best advice, turn his back on a party that does not understand, and act decisively.