OECD report says australian private schools offer no accademic advantage

[Esel]

.....as is the debate about public vs private, as you can see such a mixed bag, there have been good and bad results/comments for both.

What is suitable for your child is probably the most important thing, many of the private elite schools are very competitive, this may be detrimental and not work for your child. Perhaps your child is not a genius and perhaps more suited to the arts, there are some great public schools that accommodate this.

Just my thoughts

Ouch. Did you mean to sound so rude?

 

[MaggieMcT]

Not really.

the study looked at the socio economic background of the students and the schools. So When they compared gov and private schools with similar percentages of students from the bottom, middle, middle and top socio economic quartile - there is no difference. .

.

Hi Esel,

But this is the point that I am making. It is the entirety of the group that matters. People take studies like the one you have quoted, and take it to mean that it doesn't matter that much if they put their bright kid (from a good socio economic background) in a good private school or average public one - the academic outcome will be the same.

So many times you hear the same point being made - that it is socio economic background that matters not the $$$. This is true but is also obvious and irrelevant to the individual making a decision for their child. The problem is that for most people worrying about this decision, the socio economic background of the local public school is the problem!

So saying that socio economic background is what counts doesn't really add much to the debate. If you live in an average or above average neighbourhood, but the children of most middle or upper middle class parents are going to private school (low fee paying or otherwise) the result is that the local public school loses its healthy balance of kids and ends up with mostly the kids from lower socio economic backgrounds. What decision do you then make for your child? This is a genuine question. In my view the flight to private schools is a bad thing for society overall, but parents want to make the best possible decision for their individual child...

 

[MaggieMcT]

Just to add my bit to the salary question - one year after I qualified as a lawyer in Ireland the Law Society did a survey of newly qualified lawyers (i.e. my year and the two years ahead of us). We were all young, in our early twenties, so well before the having babies stage, and all working equally long hard hours etc. One year post graduation female graduates were already being paid about 5% less, increasing to something like 12% by the third year out.

 

[Esel]

Only seven pages?

Getting back to the original topic...

So Esel, given you always intended sending your kids to a state school so you could give them a start on the property ladder as you said in your first post, how are you planning to do this?
A bloke I know said exactly the same thing some years ago. His kids went to a pretty ordinary school and ended up pretty ordinary. He was lamenting the fact that they didn't seem to have a lot of ambition or nous, but we both agreed this wasn't necessarily a result of his education choices. 'Anyway', I said, 'isn't it great that you have been putting aside for all these years the money you would have spent on school fees so you can help them get into some property.'
Of course, he hadn't done this.

To be honest, i dont know. im not sure if that would be the best idea for us, but its something we've discussed. Im probably more keen than my partner. I mentioned it initially because this is a property forum so i thought others might have considered it.

But you are right we would have to have a plan and be disciplined. I will have spent most of my 30s working part time or on maternity leave, so we know we can live on one income. when i go back full time in a few years we will have extra cash, enough to pay school fees or invest.

I lived in london for a long time so ive experienced how bad housing affordability can be. Feels to me that melb and sydney are heading the same way. So im motivated a little by fear.

 

[Esel]

Hi Esel,

But this is the point that I am making. It is the entirety of the group that matters. People take studies like the one you have quoted, and take it to mean that it doesn't matter that much if they put their bright kid (from a good socio economic background) in a good private school or average public one - the academic outcome will be the same.

So many times you hear the same point being made - that it is socio economic background that matters not the $$$. This is true but is also obvious and irrelevant to the individual making a decision for their child. The problem is that for most people worrying about this decision, the socio economic background of the local public school is the problem!

So saying that socio economic background is what counts doesn't really add much to the debate. If you live in an average or above average neighbourhood, but the children of most middle or upper middle class parents are going to private school (low fee paying or otherwise) the result is that the local public school loses its healthy balance of kids and ends up with mostly the kids from lower socio economic backgrounds. What decision do you then make for your child? This is a genuine question. In my view the flight to private schools is a bad thing for society overall, but parents want to make the best possible decision for their individual child...

Yep, i agree with a lot of this. Will come back later and reply.

 

[keithj]

This OECD report states that after socio-economic status is taken into account, australian students in private schools do no better than they would in a public school.

This may well be true, but IMO misses the public/private point completely.

My job as a parent is to teach my kids what is normal....

I want them to know it's normal (& cool) to want to learn & achieve good results.
That it's normal for the family not to be on welfare, and have an entitlement mentality.
That it's normal to be expelled if caught doing drugs or other unacceptable behaviour.
.... and ...

IMO the odds of a private school having this as the 'normal' environment is higher than that of a public school.

Do you think private school fees (and tax payers dollars) could be better spent elsewhere?

I'd rather teach them how to fish, than give them a fish (or house deposit).

 

[MichaelW]

OECD report says australian private schools offer no accademic advantage

Love it... Should read "OECD report says Australian private schools offer no academic advantage.

My apologies, just made me laugh in the context of the thread...

Cheers,
Michael
(for the record, public school boy but have my son in a private school for all the extracurricular advantage and opportunity it provides. He loves it too...)

 

[BayView]

But isn't that the entire reason? Parents are justifiably scared of sending their kid to a public school because of the chance they will hang out with some dropkick who will get them addicted to drugs etc.

Yes, that's a major fear. We educate our boy about the dangers and evils all the time, and we keep a close eye on who he hangs out with. We encourage him to bring his friends home to our place a lot so we can check them out.

We have already "red flagged" a couple of kids.

I think it depends on the area a whole lot with Public Schools..

There are decent suburbs ad terrible suburbs and all have Public schools.

Where we lived in L.A, the Primary School my son went to was a "Magnet School". We didn't know it though until later...there was an enormous representation of Asians there, and we found out that they were moving into the area specifically to have their kids go to that school due to the education level, it's past results - but moreso the ability to use it as a "springboard" to the next better school.

So, while it was a Public school; it was populated with mostly "higher-end humans"....not necessarily rich either; although the area was definitely middle class and not below.

Many suburbs have decent folk who are yer normal Blue collar and Mr.Average, and have enough sense and upbringing to be engaged and a good role model for their kids - to help them stay on the right path.

I lived most of my teenage years in a Riverina country town, and this was mostly the case in that town...had it's share of losers too, though.

But, when you get into some of the places where the representation of skanky bogan/welfare mentality loser-dom is high; such as Rosebud and even my little sleepy hollow; then it is much more of an issue, and public school is to avoided if possible..

 

[VYBerlinaV8]

But, when you get into some of the places where the representation of skanky bogan/welfare mentality loser-dom is high; such as Rosebud and even my little sleepy hollow; then it is much more of an issue, and public school is to avoided if possible..

That sounds exactly like the problem my high school had. Enough bogan losers that the place developed a 'lowest common denominator' culture.

 

[Jaggannath]

I went to two different public primary schools and then got a scholarship to a private school, and looking at the fees there's no way I could afford to send my kids there now on my present wage.

If I'd gone to the local public high school I would have turned into a dropkick, I was heading down that path in primary school. The extra discipline (and the fact my parents were flogging themselves to pay for this private school) meant I had to knuckle down more than I otherwise would have. This is just my personal experience, and in a different town with better public schools I would likely have done just fine. It's not a question of dividing schools into public vs. private, it's more comparing what's available to you.

 

[Tim86]

I went to public school and it completely screwed me up. Now I'm just some drop kick with my stupid honours in psychology, an above average paying job, multiple positively geared property investments, a successful marriage, no drug or alcohol problems, etc... And the rest of my publicly schooled siblings are equally screwed up. My sister with her business degree in a senior management position with six figure income and her own happy healthy family and multiple investment properties. My other sister who is a teacher with a great family of her own and her block of investment units. My brother who owns his own business and home and investment property.

We are all one big screwed up bunch of kids and it's all due to public schooling.

And lol soo much lol at the parents who don't think your kids will be exposed to drugs as much at a private school. I work with kids and trust me there are drugs there too.

 

[Deltaberry]

This OECD report states that after socio-economic status is taken into account, australian students in private schools do no better than they would in a public school.

Do you think private school fees (and tax payers dollars) could be better spent elsewhere?

http://http://m.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/private-schools-more-homework-but-no-academic-advantage-says-oecd-20140909-10eghr.html

Well, that's why I ignore these OECD reports that say Australia is the most overpriced property market, and go on to make money year on year. Oh and I went to a private school