OECD report says australian private schools offer no accademic advantage

[serendip]

It definitely depends on the kind of support required too. I know a kid who's now in year 8 who is very intelligent but has a number of health issues which mean he needs support. Only the local public school would provide this support.

Sometimes a private school will be the best option for variety of reasons, but I would never just chuck my money into one blindly without researching and looking at the evidence.

100% agree with this

 

[Lou Reed]

I was very impressed with the private school she went to. The teachers were wonderful--they cared about each and every girl's abilities and their emotional wellbeing. They were truly plugged into my children. They called me immediately if they thought it necessary. There was A LOT of support for the girls; eg extra classes in all subjects which anyone could attend; there were guidance counsellors and psychologists; there were music groups, social clubs and a lot to do.. There were two indoor swimming pools, indoor basketball courts and sporting facilities; and a theatre.

Sure they care,greed is part of the curriculum right? And public schools don't they do this or have amenities?Btw what's with having a catholic figurine in the school?

 

[willair]

I think its great that your children had the choice. That must have been empowering for them.

I get the bit about support services, ive taught in public, private and catholic. Im not saying that public is always better, just that private doesn't always offer the academic advantages that people assume.

When my Wife and myself first sat down the year before my first daughter started at the school she now teaches at,during the interview process as there was only about 20 couples in the room the Principal looked at both of us me in my work clothes and my wife being Asian all the others in the room were well dress and said,don't come back to me in seven years and tell me we have not done our job,the job is up too you,and that has stayed in my mind till the last school bill we paided pure and simple,the job and result is up to you..

 

[Aaron_C]

In the end as a male or a female, you will only achieve the maximum pay by demanding it in a negotiation environment.

Indeed. I hate people who are stuck in a low paid position and complain that they're underpaid. If you don't like it, move jobs.

 

[wylie]

This OECD report states that after socio-economic status is taken into account, australian students in private schools do no better than they would in a public school.

I've just clicked on this and read the first post, and have not read any responses as yet, but people don't just choose private schools to get better scholastic outcomes than the public system.


Do you think private school fees (and tax payers dollars) could be better spent elsewhere?

If private schools closed tomorrow, do you not think tax payers' dollars would very suddenly have to be put towards schooling all those kids who were privately educated until their school closed?

 

[Aaron Sice]

Bullsh#t.

My son has recently been diagnosed with a mild case of Aspergers.

The public schools in the area have the worst track record with kids like him because he doesnt fit mainstream and isn't into the Autism Spectrum.

Without the super efforts of the staff at the private school my kids attend, he would have slipped thru the cracks as a naughty kid with no interest in education.

Now he's in the top maths class, extension class, top spelling class and top reading class. Plays for the top footy team but still doesnt understand sympathy and empathy.

Private schooling for the win for identifying the problem early and being able to work inside the school system to correct it, instead of outsourcing it to psychologists and therapists with a 2 year queue.

 

[Of The Vultures]

This myth has been busted many times. Women do not earn less than men for the same work.

Not true. A colleague's experience in a large mining company: four engineering graduates coming off their graduate programme, three male, one female. The three males all got offered the same base pay, several thousand above what the female was offered. All in the same department, doing the same job.

Another one, this time applying for a role in a mining consultancy business: an engaged couple both applied for the same role in financial/business analysis (potential employer unaware of their relationship). She had finished two degrees, one in mining, one in finance ie highly relevant to the role. He was yet to finish his one degree (mining). Both offered the role (not at the same time), except she was offered $70k and he was offered $85k.

I don't know how prevalent this is, but it's far from being a myth.

Low level and graduate position remuneration packages are generally assigned by Human Resources, an employment sector with a high female %. Are we seriously saying the 'old boys club' heads are heading down stairs and making sure their lowest rung employees are paid marginally less, just because?
...
In the end as a male or a female, you will only achieve the maximum pay by demanding it in a negotiation environment.

When I heard about my colleague's experience, the HR question came up. They don't get to decide the actual pay rate, they have pay bands. The line managers decide the pay rate within the applicable band, and that can and obviously does, vary.

In saying that, I agree with the comments to do with life choices etc. I do think leaving the workforce to have children, doing part time work etc all contribute to the pay gap, as does the general reluctance of women to be more assertive when pay reviews come up. Unfortunately that does not preclude a genuine gender pay gap from being reality in many cases though.

 

[CHAOS]

Bullsh#t.

My son has recently been diagnosed with a mild case of Aspergers.

The public schools in the area have the worst track record with kids like him because he doesnt fit mainstream and isn't into the Autism Spectrum.

Without the super efforts of the staff at the private school my kids attend, he would have slipped thru the cracks as a naughty kid with no interest in education.

Now he's in the top maths class, extension class, top spelling class and top reading class. Plays for the top footy team but still doesnt understand sympathy and empathy.

Private schooling for the win for identifying the problem early and being able to work inside the school system to correct it, instead of outsourcing it to psychologists and therapists with a 2 year queue.

Did your son go to the public school and they failed to diagnose him?

 

[Lou Reed]

I am inclined to agree CHAOS with your ?,a case of slipping through the cracks imo.
Anyhow my post will be deleted soon ha ha.And i'm not offending anyone?LMAO here.

Aka spades.

Ps.Nothin' to hide

Pss.Autotmatic script will come to fruitition,care factor 0

 

[Of The Vultures]

As far as the private/public debate, I would definitely consider private except in my area all the private schools have religious affiliations. That alone is enough to put me off private in favour of public, luckily I live in the catchment of a pretty government high school. I intend to have a pretty active role in my kids' education though, so I think they'll be fine regardless.

 

[Lou Reed]

Yeah b4 my post is deleted OTV lol,seriously why why why is religion in schools?

Ps.1 they should be taxed

Pss.2.They wear dresses and they molest children!

Psss.3.And they get away with it!!!

Psss4.Test-Quote my post-i bet it's deleted-lol

 

[Charlotte30]

Australian private schools no economic advantage

My son went to a private school. This was in an era of a real push toward university. He was not an academic, in fact he was branded as disruptive. I believe it raised his expectations of himself. A lot of the boys he went to school with had parents who were high achievers but did not necessarily have high academic qualifications. And yes the old boy network is alive and well and opened doors. This has shown itself now after he has proved himself.

 

[VYBerlinaV8]

I don't think your sample size of one is statistically significant or relevant. Good job you don't work with numbers.

Oh wait..

It's not a sample size of 1, it's a sample size of all grads from that intake year (yes, we knew each others' salary).

And I don't work with numbers. I'm not an accountant. In my job I have to actually understand the problem...

Are you disagreeing with my assertion that men and women graduates at a multinational firm are paid the same?

 

[Esel]

It's not a sample size of 1, it's a sample size of all grads from that intake year (yes, we knew each others' salary).

And I don't work with numbers. I'm not an accountant. In my job I have to actually understand the problem...

Are you disagreeing with my assertion that men and women graduates at a multinational firm are paid the same?

Your one piece of anecdotal evidence is interesting (in that everyone knew everyone's else's salary) but it doesn't prove or disprove anything about the gender pay gap. It's just not a large enough sample - or reliable evidence for that matter.

 

[VYBerlinaV8]

Your one piece of anecdotal evidence is interesting (in that everyone knew everyone's else's salary) but it doesn't prove or disprove anything about the gender pay gap. It's just not a large enough sample - or reliable evidence for that matter.

I am not suggesting it does. I am suggesting that the companies I've worked with (and there have been several, including multinationals) did not pay differently based on gender. I am visibility of all staff salaries in my current role, and there is no differentiation based on gender.

 

[Esel]

well thats pretty unfair in my books, and is total BS,

are we comparing apples and apples though, eg. a male grad gets hired at higher rates then a female grad???

Yes. Heres an extract from the sun Herald article. It doesn't say that all female grads in all industries are paid less, just that in 13 of the 23 professions they looked at, female grads are paid less on average. Interestingly, female grads earned more in 7 professions. And where there is a Discrepancy, the gap was larger in industries that paid men more.

THE pay gap between male and female university graduates is growing with figures showing the difference more than doubled to $5000 last year.

A study released by the Australian government's Workplace Gender Equality Agency found the median gap in starting salaries for graduates increased from $2000 in 2011 to $5000 last year.
The disparity was the largest in architecture and building occupations, at 17.3 per cent. The starting salary for male graduates was $52,000 compared with $43,000 for women.
Female dentistry graduates earned 15.7 per cent or $14,000 less than men whose median starting salary was $92,000.
The starting salary for female law graduates was $50,700 compared with $55,000 for men.
The agency's research executive manager, Carla Harris, said there was no adequate explanation for the difference. ''There's absolutely no logical reason why a male graduate would be seen as better than a female graduate.''
The study examined starting salaries in 23 occupations and found men earned more than women in 13 fields. The pay was the same in education, humanities and medicine. The study analysed figures from Graduate Careers Australia.
Female graduates earned more in seven occupations, including pharmacy and earth and computer sciences. But these gaps were generally smaller than occupations that favoured men.
Dr Harris said it would take a big change in corporate culture to reduce the gap. ''It needs to have leadership and accountability from the CEOs and business leaders,'' she said. ''At the top of many corporations are a bunch of men.''


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/tert...s-in-a-year-20130103-2c78q.html#ixzz3Cx2bYzTl

 

[TMNT]

^^ I think the language is a bit misleading/confusing for me,

they mention industries,

obviously a dental technican is going to get paid less then a full dentist, male or female,

if a male lawyer gets a grad position into a top tier law firm, theirs will be higher then a female gets a grad position at a smaller firm

these male vs female debates are always confusing as no one seems to be able to compare apples vs apples

 

[MTR]

.....as is the debate about public vs private, as you can see such a mixed bag, there have been good and bad results/comments for both.

What is suitable for your child is probably the most important thing, many of the private elite schools are very competitive, this may be detrimental and not work for your child. Perhaps your child is not a genius and perhaps more suited to the arts, there are some great public schools that accommodate this.

Just my thoughts

 

[depreciator]

Only seven pages?

Getting back to the original topic...

So Esel, given you always intended sending your kids to a state school so you could give them a start on the property ladder as you said in your first post, how are you planning to do this?
A bloke I know said exactly the same thing some years ago. His kids went to a pretty ordinary school and ended up pretty ordinary. He was lamenting the fact that they didn't seem to have a lot of ambition or nous, but we both agreed this wasn't necessarily a result of his education choices. 'Anyway', I said, 'isn't it great that you have been putting aside for all these years the money you would have spent on school fees so you can help them get into some property.'
Of course, he hadn't done this.

 

[Esel]

^^ I think the language is a bit misleading/confusing for me,

they mention industries,

obviously a dental technican is going to get paid less then a full dentist, male or female,

if a male lawyer gets a grad position into a top tier law firm, theirs will be higher then a female gets a grad position at a smaller firm

these male vs female debates are always confusing as no one seems to be able to compare apples vs apples

The article talks about occupations. Dentistry graduates are dentists. Im pretty sure the majority of law grads are female. 60% maybe, so you would expect slightly more women than men as grads in top tier law firms. Depends on their degrees i guess. Haven't seen the stats on that.