Point Cook, Melbourne

[DeeHwa]

I have corrected the point 2 so it should be clear now.

As for the evidence of my assertion - check out the prices of blocks in Sallybrook Circuit, Narre Warren when it sold in 2002-03 as also the last sale value and you will get the proof...

I put my stress on the individual deal rather then the suburb or location and this strategy has rewarded me well over the years...

http://www.domain.com.au/Public/PropertyDetails.aspx?adid=2007725670

Will something like that do as a random example??? I can't seem to find vacant blocks on Sallybrook Circuit.

Ok, so you started to land bank something like this 7 years ago and probably bought it for say 30-40K ish, of which no income was coming in. I agree that is an awesome return, but how does that make my example with Connell St, Hawthorn worst off. You made approx. $150-170K ish profit (excluding transaction costs) but the developer on Connell St made $311K in less than 2 years.

That aside, I would concur that some outer suburbs do outperform more expensive inner suburbs. There are obviously exceptions, as with every facet of life, but in general terms, inner suburbs outperform outer suburbs.

 

[traveller]

http://www.domain.com.au/Public/PropertyDetails.aspx?adid=2007725670

Will something like that do as a random example??? I can't seem to find vacant blocks on Sallybrook Circuit.

No it wont do.

You will need go to there and have a look for yourself to understand why i am saying no and the difference between the street that you have mentioned and the one specified by me. There is a good reason why the vendor is selling even after doing some levelling and permits. Montbrae Cct is always atleast 40K cheaper then rest of NW and even then i will not buy there.

Ok, so you started to land bank something like this 7 years ago and probably bought it for say 30-40K ish, of which no income was coming in. I agree that is an awesome return, but how does that make my example with Connell St, Hawthorn worst off. You made approx. $150-170K ish profit (excluding transaction costs) but the developer on Connell St made $311K in less than 2 years.

For me its all about Percentages and cash outlay and not absolute $$$. If $ was the case then one should just buy a A$100M commercial building in the CBD. Even a 10% increase in it will trump each and every example of suburbs you mention.

but in general terms, inner suburbs outperform outer suburbs.

Couldnt disagree more. I will point you to the links given by Jingo again for this to avoid arguing here.

Have a good night

 

[dunno]

Wow the ignorance and arrogance of some eastern suburb people never failt to amuse and shock me!!! I have lived on both sides and both have their pros and cons.

I lived in Glen Waverley, and while most from that area beat their chest about how 'privilaged' they are to live there I couldnt see the attraction-6 lanes of constant bumper to bumper trafic pretty much 24/7 on Springvale road and about 35minutes travel time to get from the freeway to the Glen-ummmm what part of this over population and pollution is attractive? Also had our house broken into and would see junkies at the glen all the time-even though people from the east would have you believe this only occurs in the west.

As for the west yes there are many low socio demo areas (just as there are in the east-dandy, cranby, springy etc...) and there are factories (there are actually more in the east but we wont let that fact get in the way eh...).

When flying the east looks like a sprawling dump of a place similar to L.A. Sure it has nice tree lined streets and great schools (the most attractive part for mine) but it still has many of the negs that you find anywhere, and is far far far to conjested for my liking.

But hey we are here to talk investing not my pen!s is bigger than yours. So that in mind I think there is fantastic potential inmany areas in the west to make money...

 

[Deltaberry]

I'm questioning whether the place is still a good investment proposal given it's recent price movements (ie can you see it moving much further?).

If it moves any further it would appear many of these eastern suburbs will start appearing cheap. No doubt it's more expensive on a per sqm basis but that's because of its established schools, hospitals, infrastructure etc. You don't pay a premium to live next to a douchebag. You pay a premium to live in a double brick house with established tramlines and bus routes, as well as proximity to good and respectable educational institutions among other things. I don't see why you don't get that.

And because of the oh so great % appreciation in some of the western suburbs, the eastern suburbs will naturally appreciate strongly lest it wouldn't make sense. now the question is would you rather a 30% gain on a 300k house or a 30% on a 800k house, especially if it's your PPOR either way and tax-free.

If you didn't get any of that it's ok. No hard feelings as usual.

 

[super_sam]

Both sides have good and bad bits. You cant really compare Hawthorn to Point Cook that's a bit obsurd and I doubt anyone dumb enough to take that seriously will ever be able to afford to live in Point Cook, let alone Hawthorn.

But since we are comparing oranges with apples, playing mine is bigger than yours, and I live in the north west which is close enough to the west how about we compare Essendon with Dandenong? Land value in our little pocket of the world hovers around $1m for an average-ish block I bet that's gained the value of a typical scummy dandy property on it's own in the last couple of years. No offence to anyone who lives in Dandenong I'm just trying to illustrate how silly this debate is...

 

[super_sam]

now the question is would you rather a 30% gain on a 300k house or a 30% on a 800k house, especially if it's your PPOR either way and tax-free.

If you didn't get any of that it's ok. No hard feelings as usual.

Dont you think just about everyone would buy a $800k house over a $300k house if they could afford to? Yes the gains are bigger and most cases THE PAYMENTS WILL ALSO BE BIGGER!!!

If you didn't get that it's ok. No hard feelings

 

[natedog]

Now, using Natedog's example of her land increasing 150% in 7 years (in Point Cook of course). Well, with a fair degree of approximation, lets say the land was purchased for about $200K (random figure I plucked), so now it is worth $500K (which is actually a bit absurd for Point Cook, but lets assume for arguments sake). That is $300K in 7 years but at Connell St, the developer has effectively made $311K in just under 2 years. Excluding transaction costs for clarity, you tell me which one is the more superior investment??? Sure, the financing costs are greater for Connell St, Hawthorn, but you are only holding it for less than 2 years (also indirectly means you pay that much less on maintenance, rates etc.)

Actual figures-the land was $96k in 2002, $250k "ish" today, which means "only" $150k appreciaition.


But having said that, everyones idea of what is important to them in housing makes its a little narrow minded to suggest that 1 area is "better" than another just based on $$$ and name dropping who lives there

i just dont see the sense in even comparing Point Cook versus Hawthorn...you are talking 2 completely different entry $$$...no doubt Hawthorn will win the absolute $$$ gain, but not all can afford the entry $$$

i would guess that most people have to start somewhere a little less glamorous and climb the ladder to get to their ideal property.

Cheers

 

[Deltaberry]

Both sides have good and bad bits. You cant really compare Hawthorn to Point Cook that's a bit obsurd and I doubt anyone dumb enough to take that seriously will ever be able to afford to live in Point Cook, let alone Hawthorn.

But since we are comparing oranges with apples, playing mine is bigger than yours, and I live in the north west which is close enough to the west how about we compare Essendon with Dandenong? Land value in our little pocket of the world hovers around $1m for an average-ish block I bet that's gained the value of a typical scummy dandy property on it's own in the last couple of years. No offence to anyone who lives in Dandenong I'm just trying to illustrate how silly this debate is...

What's silly? That Essendon is far more inner city than .. what was it... Dandenong? You've just brought up an inner city vs outer city debate instead, which is probably not much different from our convesation. I'm sure your place is much more expensive than an equivalent place in The Patch too

 

[Deltaberry]

Dont you think just about everyone would buy a $800k house over a $300k house if they could afford to? Yes the gains are bigger and most cases THE PAYMENTS WILL ALSO BE BIGGER!!!

If you didn't get that it's ok. No hard feelings

Aren't we talking about IPs here? As another poster pointed out

"Keep reading this forum to find out that yield is a very important factor when aiming to build a substantial real estate portfolio"

So yea... I don't really er... pay anything.

 

[super_sam]

What's silly? That Essendon is far more inner city than .. what was it... Dandenong? You've just brought up an inner city vs outer city debate instead, which is probably not much different from our convesation. I'm sure your place is much more expensive than an equivalent place in The Patch too

Yes I brought up an inner vs outer debate. Much like those saying Hawthorn is so much better than Point Cook. Kinda pointless of me wasnt it?? Do you understand now?

 

[super_sam]

Aren't we talking about IPs here? As another poster pointed out

"Keep reading this forum to find out that yield is a very important factor when aiming to build a substantial real estate portfolio"

So yea... I don't really er... pay anything.

Outer suburbs traditionally have a higher yield than expensive properties in inner suburbs. Makes them a smarter choice for IP's using that logic. What's your point?

 

[Deltaberry]

Yes I brought up an inner vs outer debate. Much like those saying Hawthorn is so much better than Point Cook. Kinda pointless of me wasnt it?? Do you understand now?

Haha nah there's a point and yea I understand now. I think you just said yourself your Essendon place has outperformed the other one. So thanks for supporting my assertions throughout this thread. Welcome on board.

Cheers

 

[Deltaberry]

Outer suburbs traditionally have a higher yield than expensive properties in inner suburbs. Makes them a smarter choice for IP's using that logic. What's your point?

Well my point is I have high yield in inner suburb, so good on me.

But in all seriousness, if you reallllly want to talk about traditional idioms, high yield leads to lower capital growth is the old saying. So if that's your point, here's my point. Why even deviate from the dicussion? We're talking about Point Cook. Can we get back on track?

 

[super_sam]

Someone (you?) was saying the east is better than the west cause look in the east we have Hawthorn (inner) and in the west you bogans have Point Cook (outer). I was pointing out that works both ways and it's a pointless argument. Surely that makes sense yes?

 

[super_sam]

Well my point is I have high yield in inner suburb, so good on me.

But in all seriousness, if you reallllly want to talk about traditional idioms, high yield leads to lower capital growth is the old saying. So if that's your point, here's my point. Why even deviate from the dicussion? We're talking about Point Cook. Can we get back on track?

So your point is why even deviate from the original discussion? Who helped derail it in the first place by coming into a thread about a western suburb doing nothing but bag that suburb and singing the praises of eastern burbs with median prices 3 times that of the western burb?

I hope everyone who bought in Point Cook now understands. You should just sell it and buy in Hawthorn/Armadale/Toorak/Canterbury/Whatever. Simple really isnt it?

 

[Deltaberry]

That's not the only reason why one is better than the other. I mentioned schools, infrastructure etc and how this is a feudal society. But it might not be apaprent to you if you're just trying to catch a glimpse of the sky through misty clouds. I don't think I used the word bogan once, but could always empathise with where you're drawing that inspiration from.

And you know, we can talk all about % growth and absolute return all day but the reality is to replicate the absolute return in small numbers games you need to incur much more transaction costs; transact many more times and hence increase your transaction risk exposure as well as stretch your time. That's something you always need to factor in if you have a long-term view.

Life is a big numbers game and that's just reality. It's the law of big numbers. For example, most jobs are a small numbers game and even though the investment is 0, it's still a small numbers game and you won't get rich. No doubt your return on equity is infinite (since you've put in nothing except money to buy your train ticket to go to work) but it stretches your time to its max, leaving you with no time for other things etc. A townhouse development is a biggers numbers game. You might invest $1m and only make $70k. Return on equity might be say 80% (much less than infinite), but it's higher than the average Australian salary. And you don't stretch your time as badly. As you move up the entrepreneurial/risk-taking spectrum, the more big numbers you'll most likely encounter. Same idea. Sure not everyone will have the money/time/guts to go do a development, but don't kid yourself that the job is a better return because it's OO% on equity (trying to do the infinity sign here).

Same idea with comparing these suburbs, in my books. So it's perfectly legitimate to compare them.

 

[Deltaberry]

So your point is why even deviate from the original discussion? Who helped derail it in the first place by coming into a thread about a western suburb doing nothing but bag that suburb and singing the praises of eastern burbs with median prices 3 times that of the western burb?

I hope everyone who bought in Point Cook now understands. You should just sell it and buy in Hawthorn/Armadale/Toorak/Canterbury/Whatever. Simple really isnt it?

See my post above. That's why it's perfectly legitimate to come on and 'bag that suburb' and 'sing praises' about other things. Not that I did that but again i could empathise with where you're drawing inspiration from. And yea you should sell. Do you want to play with big numbers or small numbers?

Probably shouldn't have bothered as I have a feeling you won't get it.

 

[DeeHwa]

No it wont do.

You will need go to there and have a look for yourself to understand why i am saying no and the difference between the street that you have mentioned and the one specified by me. There is a good reason why the vendor is selling even after doing some levelling and permits. Montbrae Cct is always atleast 40K cheaper then rest of NW and even then i will not buy there.




For me its all about Percentages and cash outlay and not absolute $$$. If $ was the case then one should just buy a A$100M commercial building in the CBD. Even a 10% increase in it will trump each and every example of suburbs you mention.



Couldnt disagree more. I will point you to the links given by Jingo again for this to avoid arguing here.

Have a good night

Traveller, I guess we just have to disagree on our perceptions on % growth and absolute growth. You actually talk sense though, which says more than half the clowns in this thread.

 

[super_sam]

I dont own anything in Point Cook. Never even been there. I joined in because of how rediculous it was that people were saying look how much better Hawthorn is over Point Cook. OF COURSE IT'S BETTER THE PRICE REFLECTS THAT!!!

If you're wanting to compare the east with the west, why dont you compare like with like. Point Cook with Dandenong for example. How do the schools in Dandenong compare? Transport?

Comparing blue chip with blue collar (like I tried to but you didnt seem to get it) is a waste of time. Kinda like someone who owns a Ferrari shaking his head at someone who drives an old Datsun and not understanding why the Datsun owner didnt do what he did, and just go and buy themselves a Ferrari

And for the record, no you didnt say bogan. You said douchebag.

 

[DeeHwa]

I dont own anything in Point Cook. Never even been there. I joined in because of how rediculous it was that people were saying look how much better Hawthorn is over Point Cook. OF COURSE IT'S BETTER THE PRICE REFLECTS THAT!!!

If you're wanting to compare the east with the west, why dont you compare like with like. Point Cook with Dandenong for example. How do the schools in Dandenong compare? Transport?

Comparing blue chip with blue collar (like I tried to but you didnt seem to get it) is a waste of time. Kinda like someone who owns a Ferrari shaking his head at someone who drives an old Datsun and not understanding why the Datsun owner didnt do what he did, and just go and buy themselves a Ferrari

And for the record, no you didnt say bogan. You said douchebag.

I think you have lost the plot on why this thread was started in the first place. We are discussing about whether Point Cook is a worthy investment and whether it is 'good' to buy in Point Cook. I have made my point clear and so has people like Deltaberry.

Secondly, how is Dandenong and Point Cook like for like? In terms of distance, it is way different. In terms of suburb type it is different (one is a new estate development, the other has long been developed). Dandenong is a suburb attempting to be an established satellite transit 'hub' whilst Point Cook is a residential community, marketed as affordable housing with everything that you need on your doorstep. Go find another example and I will grab a coffee during my lunch break and analyse your so called 'like for like'