Rudd vAbbott
- Thread starter Mush
- Start date
Hi Mush
I don't think it would be very good for Canberra based on our experience with the Howard government. Jobs and services will be cut and property prices will drop. Would it be the same for your State (Perth)?
Regards
AYK
As investors, we will hopefully benefit indirectly with our rent increases and CG.
We already have our tax concessions and so on; they won't alter much.
At the moment, the economy is stagnating, consumer and business confidence is down, jobs are disappearing left right and centre, living costs are going up for many, Mining has slowed...and so on.
All these types of factors combined - from my experience - stop rents increasing and CG from happening.
Assuming the Libs can reign in the deficit, return some confidence, get people spending (and I'm not saying that based on my personal situation - I talk to many, many folk from different industries who are all saying similar) and inspire businesses, to expand and hire, the flow of money will continue to be less.
Look at right now; we have the lowest interest rates I can remember in my entire life, and yet there is no hysterical boom happening.
Based on this, businesses should be borrowing, people should be borrowing to buy houses, but it's at best a trickle.
Tony Abbott said recently; "We want to see bulldozers on the ground and cranes in the skies".
This is what the Libs are about.
Labor isn't. They've had 6 years to inspire the above, and haven't.
The only thing that has kept them even remotely above water is the decreasing interest rates - and they don't have any influence on those, other than to make the economy tank and the rates get adjusted down as a response.
Only people who have absolutely no intention of voting for the Liberals ever ask this question.
I suggest you carry on supporting Labor. Most of their senior Federal Ministers have already quit in disgust {Gillard / Ferguson / Smith / Roxon / Evans / Garrett / Crean.......the list goes on and on}. The senior Federal Ministers that didn't quit have openly stated that the Prime Minister is a wonk and don't support him, typified by Gary Gray, Penny Wong, Tanya Plibersek and a few of the other remaining Gillard handbag hit squad.
You've gotta ask yourself, if the people who are at the very heart of Labor and have to work closely with Rudd are quitting in droves (rats deserting a sinking ship) it sorta beggars belief that there are people still out there who think this Labor led Govt (led by the Greens !!) are good for the country.
They've been in Govt for 6 years. That's 300 weeks. In that time they've racked up $ 300 billion in debt. A billion bucks a week overspent, every week for 300 weeks. How long do you wish this to carry on for.......how big a hole are you prepared to leave to your kids and grandkids to pay off.
To best answer your question, don't listen to what they say, simply look at what they have done previously.
The best time to look at what the Libs would do is 2007.....that was after having 11 years of the Libs policies being applied to the country.
The best time to look at what Labor would do is 2013.....that was after having 6 years of the Labor policies being applied to the country.
Simply choose which one you prefer......but then, you've already made up your mind.
Perfect example of why political 'discourse' on here goes to pot.
A question of 'How is leader X going to achieve promise Y?' is answered with, 'Well, What has Leader Z done for the last number of years?' And Leader Z is a goose, surrounded by other gooses and you're a goose as well.'
The original question, of course, goes unanswered.
How will the Liberals return our economy to the golden days of 2007, now that credit conditions are vastly different, China is slowing down and half the world is broke?
The Libs inherited a sow economy in 1996. And had the Tech Crash of 2001. In 2004 rates went up and property stalled in the East Coast. It was not perfect, sunny days of boom.
Peter
Economy was growing at 3.5% in 1996/97. Rates went up in 04 because things were booming. Property slowed, but nothing like the property market in 2009-10 after the GFC.
It was a pig of an economy then?
Yep! Peter
You cannot cherry pick. NO mention of GFC and what was the rate of growth in 07 and 08 when ALP took over?
Agree to disagree I guess.
I dont believe a Gov of the day can manage the world but it can and should do the best it can.
Also it was the Banks Policy of Lending that saved AUS from GFC. Set up so long ago it was neither Lib or Labor.
Peter
Now who's cherry picking? I was countering your point about growth in 1996. Growth in 07/08 was solid, until hit by the GFC.
Of course. My point is that so much has happened in the last five years - out of the governments control - that a return to the glory days of 2007 is a fantasy.
Well to keep a property boom going would require another credit boom.
I can't see that happening for a while.
First our economy has to transition from the mining investment phase to the production and export phase of higher volume of commodities at lower prices.
An interesting view I read from an American commentator.
US companies have been ahead of ours by reducing staff numbers and reducing expenditure some years ago and now are in a position of being cashed up but reluctant to invest because they don't foresee increased demand. I wonder if we will follow their lead.
Quote:
"The collapse of middle-class employment in developed countries is upsetting the global geo-political balance, American political commentator Francis Fukuyama says, according to The Australian Financial Review.
The newspaper reports the professor told a Centre for Independent Studies forum in Sydney that although the American economy is in full-scale recovery, companies are choosing not to reinvest and expand because they do not expect demand to increase.
Middle-class jobs are ceasing to exist or being exported to low cost countries, Professor Fukuyama said."
Maybe in the longer term of, say 5 years or so, we might see pent up demand result in a boom of investment. On the other hand we might get another dose of developed world stagflation. The Horror
Presently, in the US we have talk of tapering of QE which has lead to all that freshly created money that flowed into emerging markets flowing out again, causing liquidity problems.
Australia governments need to cut spending, so where will the growth come from? The funds aren't there to stimulate further, unless we go further into debt. Labor have put in train $billions in their budgets that have yet to hit. Liberals say they won't stop them because they need the savings too.
Perhaps we will stagnate for 5 years or more and be at the mercy of world economic conditions.
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I actually think the Gov Response to GFC other than the boost in FHOG was wise, had it been properly implemented.
Investing in Schools TICK
Investing in Insulation TICK
Investing in Solar TICK
But you need to work out the loopholes in any policy and close them. They did not and when people like Garret sent reports of issues up Rudd ignored them.
As for FHOG , it was wrong as it fuelled only one area of the economy instead of lower rates which would have fuelled all areas: spending, business, infrastructure, commercial building, manufacturing etc..
In the end, IMO, after 6 years , the ALP were not and are still not up the game of being in Gov, it is time for the NLP to do better. If they do not, then heaven help us. Time to vote Greens and live on farms.
Peter 14.7
Kudos for a perfect post.
You're making a lot of sensible posts in a thread about politics
uote:
Originally Posted by dan c
Perfect example of why political 'discourse' on here goes to pot.
A question of 'How is leader X going to achieve promise Y?' is answered with, 'Well, What has Leader Z done for the last number of years?' And Leader Z is a goose, surrounded by other gooses and you're a goose as well.'
The original question, of course, goes unanswered.
Kudos for a perfect post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dan c
How will the Liberals return our economy to the golden days of 2007, now that credit conditions are vastly different, China is slowing down and half the world is broke?
You're making a lot of sensible posts in a thread about politics
In reply:
the NLP says now 10 years to get back to surplus. That is not "return to glory days" promise to me.
The ALP said each year , a surplus, then failed. Only as little as 3months or so we were told deficit is $3BN now it is $30BN
Who is being more honest/responsible?
I agree NLP may stuff up as well but your logic is give the proven Goose another go? As opposed to trying the unproven and possible Goose?
Peter
Originally Posted by dan c
Perfect example of why political 'discourse' on here goes to pot.
A question of 'How is leader X going to achieve promise Y?' is answered with, 'Well, What has Leader Z done for the last number of years?' And Leader Z is a goose, surrounded by other gooses and you're a goose as well.'
The original question, of course, goes unanswered.
Kudos for a perfect post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dan c
How will the Liberals return our economy to the golden days of 2007, now that credit conditions are vastly different, China is slowing down and half the world is broke?
You're making a lot of sensible posts in a thread about politics
In reply:
the NLP says now 10 years to get back to surplus. That is not "return to glory days" promise to me.
The ALP said each year , a surplus, then failed. Only as little as 3months or so we were told deficit is $3BN now it is $30BN
Who is being more honest/responsible?
I agree NLP may stuff up as well but your logic is give the proven Goose another go? As opposed to trying the unproven and possible Goose?
Peter
It's a different ballgame this time around ,and if anyone thinks the glory days of 2000-late 2008 are about to return is standing in front of a high speed star-delta fan with their pants down ,,but so many these days are bought body and soul by a Government who could not even lie straight in bed let alone to the tax paying public,the same as in 2007 when we talked about this before when you were posting back then who was wrong and who was right?..first off the block will be the ppor taxable..
That was stupid of Swan to think and say that.
Swanny got sucked in by the politics of "Labor always has deficits, Liberals always have surpluses"
The problem is due to the mandated way that treasury and the RBA work out the forward estimates. Over the four year period for the first two years they forecast what will occur but for the second two year period they are required to project that everything will revert to the long term trend.
For the sakes of their reputations I heard that they want to have this changed during the next government so that they are able to forecast everything over the forward estimates.
Terrific question, and I - as a Lib supporter - often ask myself it.
I don't reckon the Libs can achieve miracles either, but I know that everyone has no confidence in Labor to do anything, soo the alternative can't be any worse....
Or can it?
