Should I consider moving jobs?

[oracle]

@Oracle, Wow! how did you manage to get loans while contracting? Do you need to put in a certain % of deposits? I bet it has helped you a lot with deposits! What is your role to be specific?

I am into software development (Java).

I use a mortgage broker. Initially properties were bought with 95% + LMI capitalised. Last two purchases were 90%+LMI capitalised. Next few most likely early next year will be 85%+LMI capitalised.

I think you might not be able to buy during the first year of contracting as the bank would require some kind of contracting history. But after the first year the banks would be more than happy to lend to a young professional with above average salary, good job history and a decent deposit saved up.

Good luck!

Cheers,
Oracle.

 

[onetwothreefour]

Msali, I was in your position in my past life. I was in it, started as junior, got paid peanuts. I did learn a lot and did lots of different projects. I was head hunted when there were head freeze around, and accepted a position with large company and double my pay.. It was a very stressful time as there were less things to do and other co worker started to backstabbing to keep their own jobs. back then female in it was rare, especially in my field telecommunication. I was the only one that had very extensive experience in the field and I was good at it too. But I did not survive the office politics. I was made redundant after i told my manager that i was pregnant. A shame for the company.
Looking back, as a mother, My job would not be good for the family. Lots of travelling and long hours.
What I learnt from it? I know that I can face new challenges and am a great learner.
Now, am happy with property and the share market. I am missing the technical challenges of building a contact centre though.
My advice is to stay a little bit longer in your job and start to diverse into different field in it.

 

[Deltaberry]

Go with your heart and don't be risk averse

The worst thing in life is not trying. I've done things that most people wouldnt have and even though it doesnt always work out, I'm glad I tried and I learn from the experience

 

[Ninga cat]

MsAli

The first thing I would do is have a frank discussion (not about leaving) but about future opportunities, workload, renumeration possibly in your performance review if coming up or just as soon as opportunity is available with most amenable manager. Sounds like you have already had a few discussions along those lines...then I would put it in writing, via your usual methods at work either memo, changes to position description etc. That way you are actually asking and talking with your employers about concerns and have now given them an opportuinity to help resolve or demonstrate commitment to you some how.

In the mean time jot down the main things you would like to be doing, ideal company or workplace...does this exist? Sounds like you are interested in one with an interview. Then you could apply for the ones you could imagine yourself in. In the mean time you will get an idea if your current work place is making changes or not and if not, more reason to climb that fence and try a greener pasture. Just don't look back when you do, every job with have it's good and bad points, the trick is to make the most of what ever you are doing, especially if you have the 'grand plan'. Goodluck!

 

[sanj]

Go with your heart and don't be risk averse

The worst thing in life is not trying. I've done things that most people wouldnt have and even though it doesnt always work out, I'm glad I tried and I learn from the experience

Agree 100%


Dont be afraid to fail, better than then sitting there frustrated and wondering what might have been 10 years from now.

 

[sash]

Hmm..........I don't like your chances of building a large portfolio with a contract job.

Personally....if your focus is building a portfolio....focus on the property side. Treat your job like cash flow. Being efficient at your job a a GREAT thing....it allows you more time to research at work!

I have friends chase the big money some even make $1000-1500/day in IT....but are they richer ...no!

Focus on your end goal...not the short term blips!

 

[Aaron_C]

Have to say I agree with sash on this one.

 

[Graemsay]

The reason that contractors get paid more is that they're easier to lay off. Anyone choosing this as a way of life should bear that in mind.

My experience over the last couple of years in the ongoing recession in the UK is of rates being cut, and long periods out of work. I've had eight of the last ten months "on the bench".

The other thing is that contractors tend to get paid a rate, and there isn't a lot of scope for promotion beyond that. MsAli mentioned $700 a day, and the most I've seen advertised on Seek is $1000 a day, which fits in with the bottom of Sash's range.

And, lastly, there can be a lot of movement involved. I've been a soft touch, but the longest I've lived anywhere since I started contracting in 2004 is two and a half years. This has really wrecked my social circle, and having just come through a bad period recently, I'm looking at re-evaluating things.

If MsAli considers herself as undervalued, then she should certainly consider a move. A company won't pay any more than it has to in order to retain a staff, and a harsh lesson that a lot of people learn is that there is absolutely no loyalty from an employer in the modern world.

Going contracting would make sense if she wants to make more money, but at the risk of denting her property investing activities. But given a flat market, that might not be too much of a problem.

The other thing to look at would be to look at moving out of the testing end. A business analyst or project manager role might be a sensible next step. Take a permanent job for a year or two to get the experience, and then look at contracting if it still appeals.

I'm starting to feel as though my time as a contractor is coming to a close. I've had a few bad experiences in the last couple of years, along with a lack of scope to advance myself, and a major rate reduction. Doing something like DaveMSydney is would make sense as a next step.

 

[pieman]

In relation to IT, it's a dying industry in aus in many ways. I've been contracting for 6 years and 15 in IT. The first change was the centralisation of support, the next was off shoring 1st level support, the next 2nd level now it's starting to be design and finally architecture will the last to go.
Software development went many years ago too.
It's all down hill for many jobs in aus and when the NBN arrives, I can't think if a lot of white collar jobs that can't be done in bangas.
Can't beat 3rd world employee rates I'm afraid with a workforce hungry for success.

I love contracting and have not had 1 week unemployment in 6 years but we are in middle of an industrial revolution where changes happen weekly. I've no idea what jobs my kids will be doing on 15 years, I guess they don't exist yet.

 

[MsAli]

Hi all,
Thank you heaps for your feedback! I'm so glad I can post here and hear from so many people who have an interest in property...because I think the views here are a lot more rational than asking someone with just an employee mindset!

I had a chat with my boss on Friday as well as the project manager (PM) for the Phase 2 of the project. The PM for phase 2 is a really good leader and she said to me that she didn't think it was the right thing to do for me and that she would be supportive of me moving to the business analysis/analyst (BA) space in the next 9-12 months once we go live with phase 2. Of course it's not under her control but I need to let my boss and his boss know if that is the sort of the move I intend to make. That phase is something I've wanted to drive the testing for a long time. I will give me exposure to working with global offices like Hong Kong, London, South Africa and potentially US.

The chat with my boss, rather annoyed me. He has been my boss for a year and his feedback has bee 100% positive - in appraisals, in meetings, on instant messaging chat, in person. Also the project testing was set up with testing stream leads per business area for the project and each operated in silos...so I pretty much became the testing expert for my area. When he took over last year he told me he wanted me to help out other streams where needed and where I had the time. Which I have been duly doing every single release. So what he said to me, he wasn't pleased how I didn't put my hand up to manage/lead the stream that had the lead test analyst moving to be a BA. I was a bit gob smacked when he said this as he himself wanted someone in the off shore office running it. I believe that person is closer to that stream than I am and I thought he had the confidence in them to do so. I was taken aback so I said okay I can do that if you like so he said..."I don't have the confidence in you"...and that you didn't ask for it. Then he compared me to his wife how he said I should have asked him myself rather than him flagging it to me. I thought that was a) unprofessional and b) I cannot read his mind...He also said it depends if the "bank" career was a priority for me and if I wanted to be like this woman executive director high up the chain?! Like seriously I DO NOT want to trade my life to be an executive. Though I like how he challenged me that I must not think if testing is going else where that I cannot make it happen for me.

...Can I please add that we never have team meetings and that we only ever get a group chat message 90% of the times!

I was taken aback as I have full trust that if I was given to run that stream, I will do a pretty good darn job. Sure I have issues sometimes stepping out of my comfort zone...but the feedback I received was in contrast to what I have heard from him in the past 12 months. Some of his feedback I was fully open to receiving but yeh - why has he not given it to me before? Or helped me set those goals in my appraisals?? I'm confused.

He went on to ask that if he left, who would the management come to? Who is more likely to take over from him...and that is me. He did say he wanted me to be his eyes and ears when he wasn't around.

Although I am annoyed, I have wanted to step up for a long time and I think now is the opportunity to bite the bullet and LEARN, be mentored and start forming connections with the rest of the project team to establish that authority of being "second in command".

Also that contract role...I don't think I will go for it as the recruitment agent wasn't fully transparent but one of my ex-colleagues who went to that firm said it is NOT a full implementation of the system (no wonder it's a contract!)

Sash, you are right - why not focus on the bottom line?! I will do that...But you know it gets difficult when your boss says..."It depends if XYZ bank career is a priority for you?" I think from now on I will not be sharing about property with anyone at work. And that I will just aim to give my best while I'm in office and excel at what I do there (while stepping up), yet my END GOAL is property property property.....WHY the heck do people in the employment force think that being a corporate executive is the goal for EVERYBODY?!!!

 

[Sheryn]

MissAli


If you are happy and look forward to going to work most days then stay, the good thing is you are analysing your opportunities.

Your focus on increasing properties is the way to go and your future forward because it is your current long term goal.

On another note - over a 10 year period I watched as 2 colleagues and friends in the same industry as I changed employers and stepped up the responsibility ladder. Their travelling increased and family time decreased and in both cases what they were told was there job incurred additional unpaid overtime.

So they earnt more than me but I concentrated on increasing our IP's and having been self funding my early retirement for the last two years and they are still working.

Focus on what you really want you future to be like rather than what you think you may need, be happy.

Analyse the pros and cons and think will this get me closer to my goal and make me happy or not.

Cheers
Sheryn

 

[sash]

MsAli.....a small admission you sound like me at 30....you are making the journey early. Most bosses will manipulate and let you hear what they want to hear. Focus on the big picture....treat property as the priority even at the expense of your job. Just be smart about how you do this. I agree about your point that most senior executives have this air of self importance but a lot are trading time for money...they have not freedom. Companies love it when they are mortgaged to the hilt and have kids in expensive private schools. Even on say an average 500-800k pa they struggle because after tax they are left with about 300-450k which dissapates with their lifestyle.

Ignore the goof balls and focus on the big picture...this is what smart people do.

Sash, you are right - why not focus on the bottom line?! I will do that...But you know it gets difficult when your boss says..."It depends if XYZ bank career is a priority for you?" I think from now on I will not be sharing about property with anyone at work. And that I will just aim to give my best while I'm in office and excel at what I do there (while stepping up), yet my END GOAL is property property property.....WHY the heck do people in the employment force think that being a corporate executive is the goal for EVERYBODY?!!!

 

[DaveM]

Because they have not yet realised that its someone else's dream they are working for, not their own.

Climbing the corporate ladder - those above look down and see smiling faces, those below look up and see a#(*holes

WHY the heck do people in the employment force think that being a corporate executive is the goal for EVERYBODY?!!!

 

[oracle]

Hmm..........I don't like your chances of building a large portfolio with a contract job.

Not sure about that Sash.If anything contracting as helped me build a large portfolio. Ofcourse, the definition of a large portfolio is subjective. But let's just say I have got a few million in loans and my broker reckons there is no reason why I can't continue. I show genuine savings of atleast 20% but I do borrow 90% and whack the 10% in offset. Do everything the banks like for eg. genuine savings, big payslips, continuous employment, no defaults.

Personally....if your focus is building a portfolio....focus on the property side. Treat your job like cash flow.

Agree. The cash flow you get from contracting is way better than permanent jobs. Whatever gets me more cash which I can divert into investing is all I care.

I have friends chase the big money some even make $1000-1500/day in IT....but are they richer ...no!

Do you honestly believe that it's contracting that is keeping them from being rich or is it their lack of discipline of using that excess cashflow to invest?

Cheers,
Oracle.

 

[oracle]

In relation to IT, it's a dying industry in aus in many ways. I've been contracting for 6 years and 15 in IT. The first change was the centralisation of support, the next was off shoring 1st level support, the next 2nd level now it's starting to be design and finally architecture will the last to go.
Software development went many years ago too.
It's all down hill for many jobs in aus and when the NBN arrives, I can't think if a lot of white collar jobs that can't be done in bangas.
Can't beat 3rd world employee rates I'm afraid with a workforce hungry for success.

I love contracting and have not had 1 week unemployment in 6 years but we are in middle of an industrial revolution where changes happen weekly. I've no idea what jobs my kids will be doing on 15 years, I guess they don't exist yet.

Agree.

That is why it's important make hay while the Sun shines.

Cheers,
Oracle.

 

[sash]

OK......I earn similar to a contrator in a permanent job....

When was the last time you borrowed?

Not sure about that Sash.If anything contracting as helped me build a large portfolio. Ofcourse, the definition of a large portfolio is subjective. But let's just say I have got a few million in loans and my broker reckons there is no reason why I can't continue. I show genuine savings of atleast 20% but I do borrow 90% and whack the 10% in offset. Do everything the banks like for eg. genuine savings, big payslips, continuous employment, no defaults.



Agree. The cash flow you get from contracting is way better than permanent jobs. Whatever gets me more cash which I can divert into investing is all I care.



Do you honestly believe that it's contracting that is keeping them from being rich or is it their lack of discipline of using that excess cashflow to invest?

Cheers,
Oracle.

 

[redwing]

Because they have not yet realised that its someone else's dream they are working for, not their own.

Climbing the corporate ladder - those above look down and see smiling faces, those below look up and see a#(*holes

A pertinent graphic...

 

[jingo]

Hi MsAli,

I agree with some of the other posters who advise you to use your job to build up your assets.

Your current boss is being manipulative. If you find a better job, that either pays more or gives you more flexibility in the way you use your time, I'd take it. Don't get caught up in the corporate politics and games. I'd probably keep your investing plans to yourself at work as well.

All the best with your decision. Regards Jason.

 

[oracle]

OK......I earn similar to a contrator in a permanent job....

When was the last time you borrowed?

Haven't bought a property since early 2010. But did get a pre-approval later in 2010 for upgrading PPOR which we decided to delay and instead I used the funds to invest in share portfolio.

Have a 7 figure margin loan approved few months back which I have used up more than 60%.

Whenever I have needed to borrow money to invest I have never encountered any problems whatsoever for being a contractor.

Cheers,
Oracle.

 

[MsAli]

Thanks guys. I will see how the next couple of days show up. I was thinking about the whole situation. When I found out about this test analyst being moved to BA I was informed within 5 minutes who he wanted to take over this persons work as the stream lead. There was no way for me to really question that because:

a) I thought they were the best person to be given the work
b) because he had already made up his mind. I feel it would only have been unfair and cocky of me to lay claim on an area that I clearly don't have as much exposure to. I find it offensive when he suggests that he can't give it to me as he has no confidence in me for I did not put my hand up for it. And anyway, why should it always be me? I am always willing to make a difference however should they need me
c) I was in a state of shock as it was a move I did not see coming

Agree with Jason that it does seem manipulative. Though possibly I'd like to think that the person in question may not be the most stable to make comments like that because the feedback has been excessively positive the rest of the time.

Following this meeting and due to his suggestion a week or so ago I have booked a fortnightly meeting with him. The next one is in a week and a half. I am not sure if I should bring these comments in question up? I feel that he expects you to read his mind without him saying much. Of course I don't want to burn my bridges either.

I feel this is the Universe's way of questioning me if I am stuck to my resolve of independence, financial freedom and excitement I get from being into property investing...and I here by challenge back, Yes I am going to stick to what I set out to do. Five years ago when I was completing University, I knew I wanted to be a corporate executive, but I am pleased that I understood within 2 years of working that financial freedom and a feeling of utter empowerment cannot be achieved through a#$ licking....

I keep reassuring myself....my path is beyond a J.O.B (just over broke). I have big visions. I have a story to tell about my life and I believe property is a part of it. And I guess, on an unconscious level I would like to say thank you to my boss for this experience....thank you for pushing me to follow my path and bring me closer to my Purpose.

Thank you all . You are awesome