Smacking kids
- Thread starter Twitch
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I have been reading this with great interest. I was smacked as a child as were my older two brothers. My brothers were much rougher with me and hurt me regularly during play and arguments. I think most people my age (mid 40s) have similar stories, and many much, much worse. I didn't enjoy being on the receiving end of a smack but there were much worse things that could have happened to a kid, as evidenced by some of the stories in this thread.
My husband had an abusive father and when we had children we started with a no smacking model, but did use a short smack if they were really naughty or to stop some behaviour quickly. We used a smack as a last resort. We have used all sorts of ways to model their behaviour and at (nearly) 18, 15 and 11 we have well balanced kids. They still have behaviours and attitudes that drive us crazy sometimes, but belting them will not change their basic personalities. I know that how kids turn out is NOT only about parenting style. One of my brothers has been a problem all along, and it has little to do with my parents, it is just HIM.
I think everyone is getting carried away. There is a HUGE difference between a "smack" and a "spanking". A smack is a quick reminder that this is wrong or dangerous and not done in anger. A spanking is a deliberate "right, now I'm going to show you who's boss" and usually does not stop with a short, sharp smack. For me "spanking" means hitting over and over again and is not an appropriate or helpful way to discipline a child. It is not a quick "stop it" or "danger avoiding" reaction, but a deliberate pre-meditated action.
The bottom line is that if you have to tell a parent that belting their child senseless is wrong, you are wasting your breath. Look at all the sad cases where children have been shaken or beaten to death. Does anyone really think that those parents (or carers) who can do that to a child will change their behaviour just because someone says they shouldn't do it. I don't think so.
But "belting" and "smacking" are absolutely worlds apart.
I haven't suffered for the smacks I received as a child and I certainly agree with others who say shaming and neglect are so much more harmful to a developing child and teenager than a quick smack ever could be.
Wylie
My husband had an abusive father and when we had children we started with a no smacking model, but did use a short smack if they were really naughty or to stop some behaviour quickly. We used a smack as a last resort. We have used all sorts of ways to model their behaviour and at (nearly) 18, 15 and 11 we have well balanced kids. They still have behaviours and attitudes that drive us crazy sometimes, but belting them will not change their basic personalities. I know that how kids turn out is NOT only about parenting style. One of my brothers has been a problem all along, and it has little to do with my parents, it is just HIM.
I think everyone is getting carried away. There is a HUGE difference between a "smack" and a "spanking". A smack is a quick reminder that this is wrong or dangerous and not done in anger. A spanking is a deliberate "right, now I'm going to show you who's boss" and usually does not stop with a short, sharp smack. For me "spanking" means hitting over and over again and is not an appropriate or helpful way to discipline a child. It is not a quick "stop it" or "danger avoiding" reaction, but a deliberate pre-meditated action.
The bottom line is that if you have to tell a parent that belting their child senseless is wrong, you are wasting your breath. Look at all the sad cases where children have been shaken or beaten to death. Does anyone really think that those parents (or carers) who can do that to a child will change their behaviour just because someone says they shouldn't do it. I don't think so.
But "belting" and "smacking" are absolutely worlds apart.
I haven't suffered for the smacks I received as a child and I certainly agree with others who say shaming and neglect are so much more harmful to a developing child and teenager than a quick smack ever could be.
Wylie
I agree and I don't think any of the people who have defended children being smacked have suggested children be constantly smacked and yelled at . That's child abuse or at the least neglect ( usually due to poor parenting skills )
I find it interesting that Sailor agrees with your statement but has been constantly against smacking during the rest of the thread . That either suggests she hasn't read your thread properly , or has been putting her perception of what people consider to be smacking onto the opinions being suggested by members of the forum.
See Change
I agree.
My family was three. Two boys and a girl.
We all got smacked and as we got older with ruler , etc... We were never wacked in the head. It was more a sting pain thing.
My sister and I are well adjusted, successful, caring persons. She has two great kids and us a 1 year old, so too early to tell.
My brother was a delinquent. He was a bully, got expelled from school, spent time in Juvenile prisons and eventually Pentridge. He died at 19 in dodgy circumstances.
Mum and Dad never gave up on him. Never stopped loving him. He was treated the same as us.
He just did not respond the same way to his upbringing. Smacking made no difference and in fact, as he got older was a waste of time.
What he needed was reality check a lot earlier before he went off the rails totally. The counsellors and legal system failed him there IMO.
Ironically it was at Pentridge when he was put into a real prison with guys who had spent 20 years in Jail that they made him realise his life was going nowhere and that if he wanted to end up like them, just keep doing it.
So in this example smacking made no difference.
Regards, Peter 14.7
Of course, when we talk about people who smack or hit their kids, we are talking about two distinct groups of 'smackers'.
There are those that smack in a controlled way and those that are out of control. Another poster talked of 'love and respect' not being shown, that causes wayward behaviour and yes, this has a major impact on the way a child developes.
Without a doubt, smacking a child WHEN IT IS APPROPRIATE is showing love and respect. A childs behaviour traits and character are formed by the time they are 3 or 4. After that age, you can shut the gate as the dye is cast and a child who has not the concept of 'cause and affect' will be the child who throws tantrums in supermarkets because s/he doesnt get what they want. They will be the children more likely to be prescribed Ritalin for 'behaviour' problems at a later stage. They will be the child who's parents blame a 'medical' condition on the childs bad behaviour.
Why is it that a lioness will clip her cub around the ear when it does wrong? Its because her youngster cant be 'reasoned' with at that age but the cub {after a smack} does get the message about cause and affect.
Why does the lioness want to teach her cub cause and affect? because without that knowledge, the cub wont last long when out in the world.
A lot of the anti social kids 'roaming the streets' havent learnt about cause and affect....in other words, they havent been taught from an early age, that they and they alone will be responsible for their actions. A kid who chooses to act without considering the consequences, is a kid that will grow up with antisocial behaviour and suffer the consequences of all that comes with that.
I got smacked as a child, if I ignored my parents warning and continued to misbehave. And thinking about that now, I have much more respect for my parents than I would have if they had ignored my behaviour and let me make my own rules. Had my parents not loved and respected me, they wouldnt have cared how I turned out.
Like I said at the start of this post, there are two groups of smackers. The 'advice' I have given here, is offered to those parents who want their kids to grow up safe, happy and well adjusted. Rely on your own instincts as a parent and of course, when you become a parent, instinct comes in abundance.
Instead of reading books by well meaning guru's, {and the path is littered with authors who admitted 'they got it wrong'}, look at kids who's behaviour you admire, and ask their parents for advice.
And if you listen to advice from those who do not have children of their own, take it with a big grain of salt. Would you let someone perform an operation on you, if that persons knowleged did not include 'hands on experience'?
There are those that smack in a controlled way and those that are out of control. Another poster talked of 'love and respect' not being shown, that causes wayward behaviour and yes, this has a major impact on the way a child developes.
Without a doubt, smacking a child WHEN IT IS APPROPRIATE is showing love and respect. A childs behaviour traits and character are formed by the time they are 3 or 4. After that age, you can shut the gate as the dye is cast and a child who has not the concept of 'cause and affect' will be the child who throws tantrums in supermarkets because s/he doesnt get what they want. They will be the children more likely to be prescribed Ritalin for 'behaviour' problems at a later stage. They will be the child who's parents blame a 'medical' condition on the childs bad behaviour.
Why is it that a lioness will clip her cub around the ear when it does wrong? Its because her youngster cant be 'reasoned' with at that age but the cub {after a smack} does get the message about cause and affect.
Why does the lioness want to teach her cub cause and affect? because without that knowledge, the cub wont last long when out in the world.
A lot of the anti social kids 'roaming the streets' havent learnt about cause and affect....in other words, they havent been taught from an early age, that they and they alone will be responsible for their actions. A kid who chooses to act without considering the consequences, is a kid that will grow up with antisocial behaviour and suffer the consequences of all that comes with that.
I got smacked as a child, if I ignored my parents warning and continued to misbehave. And thinking about that now, I have much more respect for my parents than I would have if they had ignored my behaviour and let me make my own rules. Had my parents not loved and respected me, they wouldnt have cared how I turned out.
Like I said at the start of this post, there are two groups of smackers. The 'advice' I have given here, is offered to those parents who want their kids to grow up safe, happy and well adjusted. Rely on your own instincts as a parent and of course, when you become a parent, instinct comes in abundance.
Instead of reading books by well meaning guru's, {and the path is littered with authors who admitted 'they got it wrong'}, look at kids who's behaviour you admire, and ask their parents for advice.
And if you listen to advice from those who do not have children of their own, take it with a big grain of salt. Would you let someone perform an operation on you, if that persons knowleged did not include 'hands on experience'?
This is a gem. There are a lot of "experts" when it comes to doing anything in life. Always look at the person offering advice & see if they have any hands on experience. A lot don't.
Sootygirl, I dunno...(the most amazing couple I ever knew as a child had no children of their own)...they were related to me, 54 children of our family and extended family owe them so much, they just had an incredible way of relating to each of us kids individually and communicating.
It is very difficult to explain but in many ways they had a far greater bond with some of us then our own parent(s)...he was a printer and she was a cook, great sense of humors, always always enjoyed their sense of fun, their lives, they set boundaries, but it was like they inspired in each of a desire for being the best that we could, doing the best, I think it's in Simone's post about tone of voice...at this couple's funerals all of us "kids" would talk about what we felt and how much we adored them and felt so bad if they ever needed to put on the tone of voice...it was more like we had let ouselves down.
Now they had quite an involvement with all of us, from babies to adulthood...as a child being around them made me feel good, to interact with them I always felt a better person...they had so much to give to kids and teach...but you know, they never where able to have their own bioligical children!
Again, hard to explain, but there are parts to my life, how I am as a person (and applies to the other kids that were involved in their life-we have discussed this many many times)...I would not be the person I am today if it wasn't for this wonderful couple...you don't know me enough to understand what this means to me, but it is an awful lot! Never, ever did they raise their hand, lose their temper, have a need to break any circuit?..play mind games..etc..I, personally, am forever grateful to this couple...gone now, died a few years ago, but theirs was not to be the gift of having their own biological children but to share their gift of great parenting skills with all of us!
...if you get my drift.
It is very difficult to explain but in many ways they had a far greater bond with some of us then our own parent(s)...he was a printer and she was a cook, great sense of humors, always always enjoyed their sense of fun, their lives, they set boundaries, but it was like they inspired in each of a desire for being the best that we could, doing the best, I think it's in Simone's post about tone of voice...at this couple's funerals all of us "kids" would talk about what we felt and how much we adored them and felt so bad if they ever needed to put on the tone of voice...it was more like we had let ouselves down.
Now they had quite an involvement with all of us, from babies to adulthood...as a child being around them made me feel good, to interact with them I always felt a better person...they had so much to give to kids and teach...but you know, they never where able to have their own bioligical children!
Again, hard to explain, but there are parts to my life, how I am as a person (and applies to the other kids that were involved in their life-we have discussed this many many times)...I would not be the person I am today if it wasn't for this wonderful couple...you don't know me enough to understand what this means to me, but it is an awful lot! Never, ever did they raise their hand, lose their temper, have a need to break any circuit?..play mind games..etc..I, personally, am forever grateful to this couple...gone now, died a few years ago, but theirs was not to be the gift of having their own biological children but to share their gift of great parenting skills with all of us!
...if you get my drift.
Hi Simone,
Can you please provide some evidence of this. In my personal experience, it's actually the exact opposite. I grew up with strict discipline strictly enforced, as per my posts. I also grew up with friends from wide ranging backgrounds - and it's almost exclusively the ones who had no discipline (in any form) growing up that are the ones with little or no respect for authority.
Mark
Our Obsession, you are very fortunate that you had so much interaction with that couple. They were involved with 54 of your family and even though those children were not biologically their own, given what values you have learned from that couple, yes I would take on board, what they had to say re raising kids. They are a far cry from someone with no experience who quotes from books and statistics and is hung up on political correctness.
One piece of advice above all else, that I would give to new parents, is let the child while still young, have as much interaction with the grandparents as is physically possible. {providing of course, that those adults are good role models}. Grandparents, as a rule are stress free and have all the time in the world to focus on that child. One on one interaction is the best learning environment, and children have their good and bad traits cemented by the time they reach school age.
One piece of advice above all else, that I would give to new parents, is let the child while still young, have as much interaction with the grandparents as is physically possible. {providing of course, that those adults are good role models}. Grandparents, as a rule are stress free and have all the time in the world to focus on that child. One on one interaction is the best learning environment, and children have their good and bad traits cemented by the time they reach school age.
I am wondering if sometimes kids deliberately challenge their parents in an attempt at more attention. With both parents working long hours and kids shunted off to sport activities during weekends, is this where bad behaviour could start? Then of course the parents say, we worked hard to give our kids everything. Everything of course except quality one on one attention for a regular amount of time.
Not judging anyone at all, just wondering where bad behaviour stems from.
Heredity, diet, treatment, lack of attention or a combination of all.
I have smacked little fingers near powerpoints, smacked little bottoms on deliberate destructivness or cruelty to others. Attention getting smacks only. The egos hurt more from the humiliation of it than any actual pain.
Smacking is extinct in our household nowadays as the kids are old enough now to listen to reason.
Not judging anyone at all, just wondering where bad behaviour stems from.
Heredity, diet, treatment, lack of attention or a combination of all.
I have smacked little fingers near powerpoints, smacked little bottoms on deliberate destructivness or cruelty to others. Attention getting smacks only. The egos hurt more from the humiliation of it than any actual pain.
Smacking is extinct in our household nowadays as the kids are old enough now to listen to reason.
I have to say I do agree with Sailors thoughts on the subject - and we apply a 'no smacking' rule in our house.
There is a lot of evidence around that supports that violence or 'harsh parental discipline practices' (see web site below based on a Canadian study) in the home can lead to youths displaying this same behaviour. Obviously it is not as cut and dry as this or whether a child was smacked or not smacked within the home as there are many factors that contribute.
I think however that it is a big generalisation to assume that youths with problems and lack of respect have had no discipline in the home as the opposite can be true (that's the point I was making in my post). I have no doubt that kids with no guidance would grow up to not respect authority - as they have not been taught this - again role modelling, children learn what they live. Would they of benefited from strict parents who smacked them - probably if it was balanced with love and guidance, but perhaps they would of benefited even more from limits, consequences, love, guidance and role modelling.
http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/ncfv-cnivf/familyviolence/html/nfntsyjviolence_e.html
Smacking and violence and not the same thing.
Smacking should be on the bottom or hand. A parent should remain calm and not lose control.
Smacking should be adminstered by loving parents, not abusive parents.
Agree with Simone totally on the role model thing. Set the right example in the first place, and hopefully not much smacking is required.
I was disciplined as a boy with, Wooden spoons, poly pipe, belts, etc, lol.
What a day for the family when the wooden spoon broke, lol. (it was quickly replaced). Also funny when we hid the polypipe. My mum used that on us, because my father was unable to discipline us. Interesting that my youngest brother who grew up without his father being able to discipline him, is the worst of us all, although he is still ok.
I also got the strap frequently at school. To be honest I think I would have ended up in jail if not disciplined. I had a tendency to hang around with the wrong people.
I am very thankful for the discipline I received and have no regrets at all, and love my family.
Im now working on been the best father in the world .
Cheers
mono
Smacking should be on the bottom or hand. A parent should remain calm and not lose control.
Smacking should be adminstered by loving parents, not abusive parents.
Agree with Simone totally on the role model thing. Set the right example in the first place, and hopefully not much smacking is required.
I was disciplined as a boy with, Wooden spoons, poly pipe, belts, etc, lol.
What a day for the family when the wooden spoon broke, lol. (it was quickly replaced). Also funny when we hid the polypipe
. My mum used that on us, because my father was unable to discipline us. Interesting that my youngest brother who grew up without his father being able to discipline him, is the worst of us all, although he is still ok.I also got the strap frequently at school. To be honest I think I would have ended up in jail if not disciplined. I had a tendency to hang around with the wrong people.
I am very thankful for the discipline I received and have no regrets at all, and love my family.
Im now working on been the best father in the world
. Cheers
mono
60 Minutes...tonight...smacking
60 Minutes tonight is having a segment on smacking.
Hitting home
November 5, 2006
Discipline is a hot issue
Join our webchat with Adam Blakester, National Executive Officer of Child Welfare Agency NAPCAN on November 5, at 8.30pm.
A national survey has revealed that three out of four Australian parents still smack their kids to keep them in line. And that's come as a real shock to child welfare agencies. So much so, they want the government to ban physical punishment altogether. Such bans aren't new — they already exist in more than a dozen countries around the world — but they sure are controversial. As Peter Harvey reports, there's no way some parents will stop smacking — they're never going to spare the rod and spoil their child.
Story Links
Karitane website
The Australian Childhood Foundation
Raising Children Network
Australian Broadcasting Corporation (ABC) Parenting site
Child Friendly Australia
Help for Kids
Kids Help Line is Australia's only free, confidential and anonymous, 24-hour telephone and online counselling service specifically for young people aged between five and 18.
Phone: 1800 55 1800 or visit Kids' help line.
National Association for Prevention of Child Abuse and Neglect: NAPCAN
60 Minutes tonight is having a segment on smacking.
November 5, 2006
Discipline is a hot issue
A national survey has revealed that three out of four Australian parents still smack their kids to keep them in line. And that's come as a real shock to child welfare agencies. So much so, they want the government to ban physical punishment altogether. Such bans aren't new — they already exist in more than a dozen countries around the world — but they sure are controversial. As Peter Harvey reports, there's no way some parents will stop smacking — they're never going to spare the rod and spoil their child.
Story Links
Karitane website
The Australian Childhood Foundation
Raising Children Network
Australian Broadcasting Corporation (ABC) Parenting site
Child Friendly Australia
Help for Kids
Kids Help Line is Australia's only free, confidential and anonymous, 24-hour telephone and online counselling service specifically for young people aged between five and 18.
Phone: 1800 55 1800 or visit Kids' help line.
National Association for Prevention of Child Abuse and Neglect: NAPCAN
You could also mention 60 minutes had a segment about 2 weeks ago, where the parents didnt smack their kids, and it was about parents whole lives being about parenting 24 hours a day (Attached Parenting). Whatever the kids say goes. Had to laugh when one of the parents said, the worst thing you can say to a child is "respect your elders"
http://sixtyminutes.ninemsn.com.au/sixtyminutes/stories/2006_10_22/story_1798.asp
As mentioned ealier......Channel 9 education
Cheers
mono
http://sixtyminutes.ninemsn.com.au/sixtyminutes/stories/2006_10_22/story_1798.asp
As mentioned ealier......Channel 9 education
Cheers
mono
the shorts look very one sided - they were showing the parents "belting" kids, instead of the style of smacking we've been discussing here ... a tap on the bottom to break the misbehaviour circuit when nothing else has worked, or time is of the import.
very one sided - as sixty minutes usually is.
very one sided - as sixty minutes usually is.
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Interesting article in today's Courier Mail:
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,20797,21222667-3102,00.html?from=public_rss
They want to ban corporal punishment for children....at last!
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,20797,21222667-3102,00.html?from=public_rss
They want to ban corporal punishment for children....at last!
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