Steve Navra seminar

[Tibor]

Hi everyone,

I have not posted for several months due to various reasons. Thank you very much, Logan (in Brissie) is well and alive and proves that cash-flow positive property with excellent cap gains exist!
('')!

The main reason for my re-apperance is spending 2 absolutely brilliant days with Steve (and some of the forumites).

I supposed to attend this course last June, but had to miss it, due to urgent some renovation in Brissie. Today I know I should have done this course 5 years ago!!

Have seen and listed several well known people, who are active in the investment educations area and not trying to take away anything from them, the money what one spends on Steve's seminar worth several times the money spent on the various other wealth guru courses. ('')

I personally have found that they (other educators, who I still respect and thankful as they all thought me something) offer various strategies, which work UP TO A POINT, like "You are too rent reliant" (maybe job reliant is safer) ('')
, but Steve actually gives you a solution not only a strategy. I was half depressed on Saturday morning (albeit was looking forward much to see Steve)
as my little IT job crisis (gone away temporarely) put me about 5 to 10 years back in my financial independence planning.

I want to say, that by this arvo, Steve has changed my entire view. He has shown a way, I can achieve my goals within a period of time, I have not dreamt of even in much better IT job times.

THANK YOU STEVE, YOU ARE A CHAMPION!!!!!

The point I am trying to make, that if you have not been exposed to Steve's seminar and cashbond strategy (the 2 days course - including meals and refreshments - will set you back as much as $268 - it can't be true, it did not cost at least 3 grand - you might gain something what you dreamt about in the past couple of years!! For me personally, it was best money I have EVER spent in the financial education area.

For those who do not know me, I am not working for Steve and not advertising his services, have a very low bdust tolerance.

I am just some who tries to share something, I have personally found exceptionally good.

He has shown to a guy having almost nothing (meaning 10K cash savings and 12K per annum future savings) how can be financially free in 10 years on an income that is acquired by only a very small percentage of the population.

If anyone is in a bit better position the time frame could be dramatically reduced and / or the amount could dramatically increased.

And the best still to come. While I am conservative, at the same time agressive, it seems to me that his method on is one of the safest (no buying several OTP properties on deposit bond then pray for capital gain to flip, negative gearing to 110%, etc) way to achieve is a remarkably short time financial independence.

He definitely challenged my view on shares and even on what to buy, and for how much. I am still trying to come to full acceptanhce of his views on these.

I have also found his Rental reality based valuation very much to my liking (I am using something similar, but considering to switch or to incorporate) as it can help to reduce the chance of making expensive mistakes.

Hope this info might help some people.

You can find him on www.navrainvest.com.au

Tibor

 

[Steve Navra]

Thanks Tibor,
I enjoyed the weekend as much as you

PLEASE NOTE the web address is: www.navra.com.au

Regards,

Steve

 

[bundy1964]

Now all we need to do is find you a map with Adelaide on it

bundy

 

[Les]

G'day Tibor,

It's good to see you again. And thanks for the positive info. Will we see you around in Sydney, or have you moved up to Logan

Regards,

 

[ani]

It was a great weekend and I am still digesting all the info.
Thanks Steve.

But the best part for me was seeing a very happy Tibor on Sunday arvo! Enjoy your new future Tibor doing what you want to do, not what you have to do.

Cheers
ani

 

[sanchez]

I agree Tibor. I attended also and had a great weekend.

It was excellent value for money. The more I think about the cashbond system the more it makes sense, to the point where it seems such an obvious idea and I wonder why nobody else thought of it.

It really solves one of the problems I was seeing with my situation in the future and the possibilities are starting to sink in. I was able to explain to my dad last night how he could retire tomorrow on a comfortable income if he wanted to.

The one concept that I am still trying to get comfortable with is the "rental reality". It seems like a great idea, but I need to think about it a whole lot more.

Sanchez

 

[landholdings]

I'm just joining the bandwagon. Thanks Steve for a great weekend. It was nice having a small class. And I'd like to stress that Steve answers all your questions so that's really refreshing. Some of the bigger seminars I have been too, there isn't really an opportunity. Now I can put a few more faces to names. Hello Ani, Brains, ducey. Also hello to others I met who are not currently on this forum but I met at the seminar.

wealth health and happiness to you all.

Sophie.

 

[brains]

Good on you Tibor, i knew you were doing it tough for a while there and its great to see Steve has provided a solution. You were full of beans with enthusiasm after the seminar yesterday afternoon. Gday Ani, Landholdings, Acey, Mr Ed, Sanchez, P Noake, Tom, Vanessa, Sol and anyone else i met or know from the forum. (or who are going to join)

It was a great course and if anyone hasnt done it yet, sign up NOW!!

The only thing i was unsure of was buying property at 25% above the median for the city, i understand why this is recommended it just goes against what i do now, which is buy at below the median to maximise rental returns for a given area or city and im neg. gearing averse.

Looking forward to the one on one consultation, should be enlightening.

 

[Alan H]

Yes.........great to have you back Tibor. It hasn't been the same without you!

Although it appeared you were going through a tough patch there for a while, you now sound like your batteries are recharged and your ready for action!!!!

Good on you.......

 

[Tibor]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all the kind words. I admit, I was and still am very excited. as I know that every day passes by, will put me closer to achieve my dreams. Adding this to with Steve's generosity of providing education, strategy, solution and lots of materials for almost free with such a great love of "helping people", has definitely made me move.

I am still searching, re-reading the materials and goinfg through various things, while trying to find the "catch", as I learned if something is too good to be true it is usually not true.

Maybe this time I just have to accept that there is more humanity, helping hand and generosity available than I gave credit for and accept in in a humble way.

It is just almost unbelievable to me, that in today's very profit centered world someone gives something for almost nothing and if the offer is taken up then might get rewarded for his efforts.

To me it makes business as well as other sense, its just a pity that it is so rare.

I will be watching with great interest that the 80/20/80/20 theory will be true this time or without exception all people will do something about their way to financial freedom.

As Steve mentioned, he not only willing to show the door, but also willing to walk through with everyone interested. Am I missing something here?

How many seminar presenters would offer anything similar? You paid your money, got your education, now its up to you (usually on your own). It is just such a great offer, it would be a shame if even a single person would miss it.

Talking to other people and watching some of their reactions, the number will be low, maybe even none. Steve, that would be a real achievement.

Les, thanks for your kind words. I am still in Guildford, but love QLD, and in a financial sense I am deeply in love with Logan. The locals still not quite sure what has happened. Warly last year there was properties under 30K, have a look at now. I think those people who bought in the area are very very satisfied with their investment. I hate to make predictions, but last year I have stated that "in 3 years time, I don't believe that there will be many properties available under $100,00". One years gone and it seems to me that I might managed (once in a life even I can do it) to get it right. My local friend last year hesitated to purchase townhouse in benleigh around $50,000 (on something like 12.5% to 13% gross yield!!!!). Recently he was looking around the area and the same townhouses were up for sale for $88,000!!!. Of course the yield declined, but they are still selling reasonaby fast.



Cheers,


A very smiling Tibor

 

[ani]

Hi Tibor

There are good decent people in this world and we just spent the weekend with one of them. Sure Steve, as he disclosed, will get commissions on products etc but his giving of self was very special.

It is good to be wary but I think this time you just have to accept there are a lot of people from the seminar and on this board who think you deserve what's coming when that "structure" kicks in.

And since you looked ageless at the end of the weekend, ignore all Steve's predictions of imminent demise and enjoy the next 50+ years of retirement!

Cheers
ani

 

[Mr. Fabulous]

It still gets me stoked to see people react to Steve like this, even though I have seen/read it many times. Tibor, I was on oyur cloud 12 months ago, and I still haven't come down from there yet! In fact, I have actually floated even higher. Let me tell you this: the more you get to know Steve, the better things get! If you think things are great now, just wait, cause they're only gonna get better! Woo hoo, good on ya Tibor, it really is good to have you back on the forum again. Now, if only w could just find Sergey...

Mark
'no hat, some cattle'

 

[NigelW]

Aw c'mon guys, let's stop the love-in. If you keep this up we'll have to float Steve's ego on the ASX!

Doesn't ANYBODY have any constructive criticism/negative things to say??

Steve's target properties, found by applying the "Rental reality" rule can still be problematic is there's no capital gain for an extended period...

Seeing as you'll probably be -vely geared won't that be a problem? Of course the cashbond income may alleviate the CF stretch, but you're consuming capital that isn't growing. What about if interest rates spike? (altho admittedly it may be a wierd scenario if int rates up and property prices fall for an extended period).

Wouldn't it be better to buy well, renovate and get an accelerated capital gain and increased cashflow all at once? Of course, not everyone has those skills but you don't necessarily need to renovate for multiple income streams a la Michael Croft if you buy well.

A wise and clever man told me that "you can't predict the future" But isn't buying those above median properties in HISTORICALLY good growth areas (which are accordingly negatively geared) based on exactly that - forecasting the future based on past performance?

As I mentioned, wouldn't it be better to buy for yield potential and MAKE YOUR OWN capital growth? Of course you could perhaps do that AND use a cashbond

No lynch-mobs please. Just stirrin' the ole pot.

ps. I think Steve's still got one of my dodgy old tupperware salad bowls from New Year - So there he ain't ALL good!

 

[ani]

Anyone that keeps Tupperware is seriousily dodgy so I will rethink the whole experience!

I have to say Nigel that I'm still mulling re the -ve property thing but will reserve final judgement until after the one on one.

 

[Tibor]

Hi Nigel and Mark,

It is good to hear from you again. I want to state that I am primarily still for cash flow positive properties as a portfolio, with some negative gearing mixing in it. This did not change a bit.

What Steve is offering, yes it is based on growth, but I already learned some technics how to help to stimulate growth. Obviously, I can not stimulate for an entire suburb, this is why if the suburb in the long term performs well, a well selected negatively geared property with some twist, can be improved to become cash flow positive within a short period of time .

Steve's strategy firstly can help over the rent reliancy rubbish, secondly can also provide an income which would be very hard or near impossible to achieve just from properties.

I also tend to agree with him that there is not much point being the richest person in the cemetery, hence I am not worried about living a comfortable lifestyle while I am using up some capitals!
The startegy seems to me (obviously only after the event I can state it as a fact) if properly employed on its own provides some capital growth on top of the income. While the income can be quite large, it does not mean I have to spend it it. Some of it can be put back to buy further assets, reduce debt, or add to charity and reduce tax!

One of the main thing that we also should enjoy what we have earned, while we can.

I do not want to hand over $10 trillion worth of inheritance to my daughter (if the goverment will not tax the living dayligh tout of it).

If she can get 1 property to start with as well as some paper assets, BUT excellent financial education, I am not even sure that the property and the paper assets even will be needed. She will be able to make it for herself, much better than I ever will do. And I would be much happier. Then she got something at a young age what the majority of us had to acquire much later in life.

Tibor

 

[Steve Navra]

Originally posted by NigelW
I think Steve's still got one of my dodgy old tupperware salad bowls from New Year - So there he ain't ALL good!

Grief, who could possibly ever believe that a highly succesful, renowned soliciter would admit to owning said 'dodgy' tuperware?

Tell you the truth Nigel, I wasn't game enough to ask if it was yours: I thought you would have been highly insulted that I might in any way infer that you were the owner of such a lowly piece.

Regards,

Steve

 

[brains]

Nigel,

We could still use the structure while choosing our own properties, (cant we?) as long as there is adequate growth, its ok.

Im sure its not hard to achieve more than 5% growth and 5% rental yield.

If i cant find a property that can do those figures, im in the wrong game. (or hobby)

The impressive part is the conservative figures for the structure to work, shouldnt be hard to outperform every quoted figure used in the seminar.

Keep the love coming........HAHA

 

[gaz]

Well I won't be using Steve's cashbond structure, and here's my reasoning why.

Firstly, it relies on having a high LVR of 80% forever, with the income from rents covering your interest payments. Lets look at that. If you are receiving a net return of 5%, then if your interest rates are over 6.25% at 80% LVR, your rents do not cover interest, so money has to come from the cashbond to cover the difference. Each percentage over that gives you less money from the cash bond to live on. Your living income is very dependant on interest rates. (Now if we could get long-term (30yrs) fixed rates loans, then that would make a difference.) Steve's argument seems to be that if interest rates rise then property values rise so you can just borrow more money. Is this some new fail proof economic rule? Are you willing to bet your financial future on that always being the case?

Secondly, the tax deducibility of the cashbond worries me. If you borrow 100k to get a cashbond to borrow 300k to buy a property, then effectively you are claiming a 400k debt on a 300k investment. The ATO are presently allowing this, but will that always be the case? What happens if the ATO change their mind. Then you are building up a large non-deductible debt, which in the long term means that you will start paying tax on the rents you receive, making it more difficult to cover your interest payments. This isn't really a problem in the short term, but I have grave doubts as a long-term strategy.

Thirdly, you are relying on the bank to loan you money to live on. And if the bank says no? Seems to me you are pretty Well stuffed. All your rent money is going to cover the interest payments. At the moment, Steve says that banks are happy to count the cashbond as income to service the loan. Will they always do that? Maybe, maybe not. They may get burnt by a few people using cahsbonds and then decide not to lend on them. Are you willing to rely on them being on your side?

Fourthly, the whole thing relies on capital growth. Your standard of living is determined by the amount of capital growth you get. No capital growth means you don't eat. How many years has property been going DOWN in value in Japan? Is Australia some magical place where this can never happen? You have no control over what capital values are going to do in the future, and this is what you are relying on for your income. Are you willing to bet that there will never be a five year period (I'm assuming you get a new casbond every 5 years) in the future where there is no capital growth? I know I'm not.

So is this a plan for financial independence? Only if your idea of independence means that you RELY on good economic conditions and the attitude of the ATO and the banks staying unchanged till you die. The structure will work well if everything goes in your favour, but that's not a bet I'm willing to make.

The cashbond is a great idea to increase your serviceability in the short term to buy more properties. But as a long term strategy there are too many unknowns and things out of my control for me. And it looks to me that if it does go bad, it will go really really bad - there seems to be very little margin of error.

Gaz

 

[Kevmeister]

gaz:

A good response. You have my respect simply for having the fortitude to put forward an opinion that goes against the majority. Welcome to the forum - although I'm sure it would have been more fun to start with something positive rather than negative.

If I might make a few points in regards to your comments:

1. "Relies on having a high LVR of 80% forever" I don't think that's the case at all. Steve does seem to advocate maximum leverage, because it's the quickest way to achieve financial independence. Maximum leverage is why some investors choose property over shares, for example. But you don't have to do this. You can take it slower, tip in more deposit, get any property at 60% or 70% LVR if you wanted to (it will just take longer for it to happen), etc. I liken Steve's formula to a Bolognaise sauce - you can change the ingredients a little to suit your taste.

2. "Money has to come from the Cashbond to cover the difference". Steve suggests the use of a Cashbond only in situations where serviceability is limited. You can also pay the shortfall using money out of your own pocket. Using a Cashbond is an expensive way of achieving serviceability, so you don't want to do it if you don't have to. Those who are asset-rich and cash poor might choose this path. There is definitely risk associated with using the cashbond - you are spending money you don't really have (capital growth) before you have earned it (the capital growth). But let's keep in mind that a lot of Steve's concepts can be applied irrespective of and independent of, using the Cashbond. His criterion for house selection (30% land content), pricing (25% above median), rental reality etc are all techniques you can choose to apply (if you want to) that have nothing to do with the cashbond. And, similarly, you can apply the cashbond/annuity concept in isolation of his other strategies, if that's what you choose to do.

3. "The Tax Deductibility of the cashbond worries me". Steve strongly recommends obtaining a private ruling specifically pertaining to your private situation. Not sure how these work and for how long they last (Dale?). But isn't the whole point of such a private ruling to save your butt from ATO changing their mind later?

4. "You are relying on the bank to loan you money to live on". If you want to stop working and use Cashbonds to live off then, yep, exactly. But, like I said, you don't necessarily have to use the Cashbond to that extreme, you might use the Cashbond purely for buying more IPs. Or you might not use it at all.

5. "The whole thing relies on capital growth". Yep. Absolutely. And anyone buying a negatively geared property is relying on exactly the same thing.

6. "The structure will work well if everything goes in your favour, but that's not a bet I'm willing to make." I think this is the crux of the matter in your case. There are people out there who will go and obtain 15 deposit bonds to buy 15 x $400K apartments knowing full well that if they don't obtain cap growth before settlement, they are well-and-truly screwed. I couldn't do that and it sounds like neither could you. The fact that Steve's technique increases your leverage means that, by its nature, it also increases your risks, as well as your rewards. It sounds like you're not comfortable with those risks.

 

[NigelW]

Originally posted by Kevmeister
gaz:

A good response. You have my respect simply for having the fortitude to put forward an opinion that goes against the majority. Welcome to the forum - although I'm sure it would have been more fun to start with something positive rather than negative.

If I might make a few points in regards to your comments:

1. "Relies on having a high LVR of 80% forever" I don't think that's the case at all. Steve does seem to advocate maximum leverage, because it's the quickest way to achieve financial independence. Maximum leverage is why some investors choose property over shares, for example. But you don't have to do this. You can take it slower, tip in more deposit, get any property at 60% or 70% LVR if you wanted to (it will just take longer for it to happen), etc. I liken Steve's formula to a Bolognaise sauce - you can change the ingredients a little to suit your taste.

Don't think it's max leverage on the NavraTM approach in fact he's quite conservative sticking to 80% IMHO when you can get 90-95% lends with LMI.

But there's nothing wrong with conservative when it comes to gearing. You just have to take a risk level you're comfortable with. Of course if the cashflow from a property is strong enough you can be more comfortable with gearing to a higher LVR.