From what I understand the final cost will be much more than the contract value
The project has a headline value of 1 billion plus
The Art of Gen X/Y
- Thread starter Deltaberry
- Start date
From what I understand the final cost will be much more than the contract value
The project has a headline value of 1 billion plus
Ah 'variation', the word has been the sweetest of melodies to my ear.
I know quite a lot of people, both near and dear to me and otherwise, who live in "new" subdivisions on the outskirts of Perth, some 50km away from the CBD. When we want to visit or they want to visit us, it takes nearly an hour each way, so it doesn't happen very often. They don't actually have any space - block sizes are generally 400-500sqm and house sizes 250-300sqm so there ain't any backyard to speak of, or room from the neighbours. They are distant from their friends, families, doctors, shops, community centres, clubs, pubs, good jobs etc etc etc. You get the idea.
When we do visit, we generally make a weekend of it, staying overnight. The streets are dead, there are no trees to be seen, there is hardly any community spirit whatsoever in the neighbourhood. Everyone is inside their own lovely brand new houses in their theatre room or on the computer being entertained. No-one even gets out of their cars to open the garage door so you see no-one in the street except the occasional dog walker. They all love their houses and the interior space and the lovely tiles in the bathroom etc etc but they are so isolated from the people and services around them - it's demoralising and depressing - I'm always glad when we leave the area for that reason. I always feel sorry for the people who live there.
We also stay with other relatives on a farm 2.5 hours out of Perth. It's further away but we also make a weekend of it and when we go there we find a rural community with established families, many of whom have been around for generations, just down the road and up a bit. Strong community spirit, great pub culture, fox / roo shoots, helping out with shearing, yard work, mechanical problems - share the wood cutter etc etc etc. It's not an affluent community at all but it does very well. An uplifting place to live, despite its remoteness and a general lack of money going around. I almost feel jealous of the people who live there, until I think of schooling issues.
But comparison of the fringe suburb dwellers with apartment dwellers who live near shops, transport options, clubs, pubs, restaurants, parks and other people, friends and family - give me an apartment any day. Outer suburbs were fine when they were 20km from the city. When they are 50km from the city it's just depressing - there is a limit to the viability of everything and cheap infrastructure is still not viable if it is not used by enough people. In order to get enough people to make the infrastructure viable, we need more density in our planning. And we need a social shift to value communities and social interaction over big houses, instead of the other way around.
When we do visit, we generally make a weekend of it, staying overnight. The streets are dead, there are no trees to be seen, there is hardly any community spirit whatsoever in the neighbourhood. Everyone is inside their own lovely brand new houses in their theatre room or on the computer being entertained. No-one even gets out of their cars to open the garage door so you see no-one in the street except the occasional dog walker. They all love their houses and the interior space and the lovely tiles in the bathroom etc etc but they are so isolated from the people and services around them - it's demoralising and depressing - I'm always glad when we leave the area for that reason. I always feel sorry for the people who live there.
We also stay with other relatives on a farm 2.5 hours out of Perth. It's further away but we also make a weekend of it and when we go there we find a rural community with established families, many of whom have been around for generations, just down the road and up a bit. Strong community spirit, great pub culture, fox / roo shoots, helping out with shearing, yard work, mechanical problems - share the wood cutter etc etc etc. It's not an affluent community at all but it does very well. An uplifting place to live, despite its remoteness and a general lack of money going around. I almost feel jealous of the people who live there, until I think of schooling issues.
But comparison of the fringe suburb dwellers with apartment dwellers who live near shops, transport options, clubs, pubs, restaurants, parks and other people, friends and family - give me an apartment any day. Outer suburbs were fine when they were 20km from the city. When they are 50km from the city it's just depressing - there is a limit to the viability of everything and cheap infrastructure is still not viable if it is not used by enough people. In order to get enough people to make the infrastructure viable, we need more density in our planning. And we need a social shift to value communities and social interaction over big houses, instead of the other way around.
I was talking to a few colleagues yesterday. One of them is selling an apartment close to the city (PPOR) mid 600's and it's a unit. They want to move to a bigger place and certainly not an apartment. I tried to explain to them that the west around Parramatta is QUITE expensive too in Sydney. But their argument is that "it's not as nice" and the demographics are different. Another colleague jumped in and said there are areas with a better feel to live in and they bought their first home for $785k a year ago, around the "Norwest" region, on a main road and a battle axe, must have so far spent $50k-60k on renovating it.
What I don't get is, what are these people thinking? West isn't as bad as they think. Where we are located we have a selective school in the area and Chinese, Indians, Sri Lankans are willing to spend stupid money here and prices are only rising.
It almost made me feel like an odd one out. Because I am okay to live in the West and invest further out west.
But then I am looking at delayed gratification. While many people at work are only looking at the now. Sometimes it annoys me but at other times I just laugh and see that I have a different goal and I am constantly working on a plan to be financially free.....and only work on investing full time down the track.
What I don't get is, what are these people thinking? West isn't as bad as they think. Where we are located we have a selective school in the area and Chinese, Indians, Sri Lankans are willing to spend stupid money here and prices are only rising.
It almost made me feel like an odd one out. Because I am okay to live in the West and invest further out west.
But then I am looking at delayed gratification. While many people at work are only looking at the now. Sometimes it annoys me but at other times I just laugh and see that I have a different goal and I am constantly working on a plan to be financially free.....and only work on investing full time down the track.
I've lived in dog boxes, bedsits, and we lived in a 1 bedder in L.A for a fair chunk of our 3 years.
We now live in a spacious house with views, only one neighbour to really speak of and no commuting.
The house with space and views is clearly a winner when comparing the two types of dwellings.
The dog box in the CBD is the "necessity" dwelling - you live there because it is near work, and it's all you can afford.
Anyone who says they prefer dog box living is either a liar, or hasn't lived in option 2.
OR they just have different values to you.
Some people value being close (eg. walking distance) to an abundance and variety of restaurants, cafes, bars, clubs, pubs, parks, transport, art galleries, theatre, shops, cinema, friends, etc. and having low maintenance accommodation etc. higher than a big house with countryside views.
You value the features inside your parcel of land higher, and they value the features outside their parcel of land higher.
Some people value being close (eg. walking distance) to an abundance and variety of restaurants, cafes, bars, clubs, pubs, parks, transport, art galleries, theatre, shops, cinema, friends, etc. and having low maintenance accommodation etc. higher than a big house with countryside views.
You value the features inside your parcel of land higher, and they value the features outside their parcel of land higher.
i think youll find by now that unless you agree with Bayview you are a liar.
I know that i genuinely long to live waaaay out in a suburb he himself calls Drugmana that is apparently full of deros with a struggling local economy.
Unless you also dont wish to live there you are either a liar or dont know what youre missing.
Also, it is important to note that the only options for accommodation are dogboxes in the city and large places in the middle of nowhere, there is nothing in between/no shades of grey.
Just giving my experience of the opposite styles of living, is all - as opposed to others who haven't.
Having lived in over 20 different locations around the country and O/S so far, whilst standing upright, I reckon I can comment with some degree of experience.
I'm sure the other older experienced folk here will have a similar story to tell.
The local amenities notwithstanding; we are talking about the type of accommodation, are we not?
FYI, we have cafes and so forth...and we don't have to live in a shoe box to be near it if one is on a limited budget/income.
No doubt there are plenty of folk who live near the happenin' life of the CBD, and not in a shoebox - because they can afford the much bigger apartment.
That was my point.
Our place has a parcle of grass which takes approx 5 mins with the Flymo. The rest is gardens, paved walkways, driveway and self-cleaning pool.
House is render and brick, extruded windows and Colourbond roof.
What maintenance?
When I say shoe box I am more thing along the lines of the overpriced bungalows, cottages and terraces rathe than apartments
I grew up on acres of land. Lived in shared houses in the inner city, then a 1000sqm block of land with ne near neighbours then a more suburban apartment now inner city apartment.
The inner city apartment wins for me. Access to services and lifestyle options within walking distance is an absolute winner.
So, if you guys had a choice of a 1 bedder apartment in the CBD (or close to all the cool amenities as was mentioned - but not necessarily the CBD), or a 3 bedder with 2 living areas and 2 baths (as an example) in the same apartment block, you'd take the 1 bedder with the shoebox living and dining space?
What about; same exact neighborhood, but in a really nice freestanding house in a quiet cul-de-sac with a few more metres all around between you and the neighbor who wants to sit up until 12am playing "The Doors" at high decibels? and so forth.
No doubt the choice is also very relevant to your age, job requirements at the time and number of kids.
Most 20 somethings will say 1 bedder, most 30 somethings with kids will say otherwise, I'd say.
Interestingly; many 70+ year olds end up back in 1 bedders.
What about; same exact neighborhood, but in a really nice freestanding house in a quiet cul-de-sac with a few more metres all around between you and the neighbor who wants to sit up until 12am playing "The Doors" at high decibels? and so forth.
No doubt the choice is also very relevant to your age, job requirements at the time and number of kids.
Most 20 somethings will say 1 bedder, most 30 somethings with kids will say otherwise, I'd say.
Interestingly; many 70+ year olds end up back in 1 bedders.
Have you ever been to Dromana?
It's not all druggies and skanks. There were a lot less when we moved here. I'm a magnet, it would seem.
I've been to Perth a few times - honeymoon and 10 year anniversary, as well as stop-overs during flights from other places.
Going back there again next March for the 20 year anniversary - and to Rottnest for the 3rd time..
It's quite ironic; we spent a decent chunk of our honeymoon practicing to make kids, and this time around we'll have 3 in tow, which will effectively render any more practice impossible.
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That's a silly comparison.
Would I rather live in a 60sqm dog box in Mid-Levels in Hong Kong or a 400sqm fringe suburb house in any Australian major metropolitan?
Of course I'd choose the first one. Could sell my 60sqm dog box and buy probably 30 of these fringe houses on a good day.
If you're asking whether I'd live in a 60sqm dog box or a 400sqm house in the same area, of course I'd take the 400sqm house.
Would I rather live in a 60sqm dog box in Mid-Levels in Hong Kong or a 400sqm fringe suburb house in any Australian major metropolitan?
Of course I'd choose the first one. Could sell my 60sqm dog box and buy probably 30 of these fringe houses on a good day.
If you're asking whether I'd live in a 60sqm dog box or a 400sqm house in the same area, of course I'd take the 400sqm house.
It's not silly at all.
Folks here have already stated that they prefer dogbox to chocolate box, but then added that the amenities were the clincher. Like it made it a justifiable choice.
Well; let's make the playing field equal.
As I said at the beginning:
Not my fault if others try to twist it.
Would I live in a 3 bed house out the back of Kansas in the boonies, or a 1 bed on Sunset in L.A?
No comparison - Kansas sucks.
But put a 1 bedder up on the 10th floor with noisy, smelly neighbors, 200metres away from the 3 bedder on a treed hill all by itself in Kansas and then make your choice.
As I expected.
But; I said what if you could have the space in the same location?, and my argument is that if you could you would - only affordability stops you, and folk go "oh yeah; apartment it is".
So, buy/rent the penthouse on the top floor if the location is all that matters.
It's going to become a demographic based argument. Younger versus a bit older, and type of job.
All I can say is that I don't know of many older couples with families doing it. Having been young, and now older I can see both types of thinking. The young person has trouble with the two mindsets for obvious reasons.
Older singles, for sure - I know a few who choose apartment living, but generally as folk get older the cool pad across from the cafes doesn't appeal so much. People find they want solitude, and they certainly need more space with families in tow - if they have a choice.
You may find your preferences change.
The in-between evolved; townhouse with handkerchief sized yards and gardens. Good location, more space, less maintenance and more solitude.
