The great house price crash 2005

The Great House Price Crash 2005? (uk)
By Hannah Liptrot
BBC Money Programme


After a decade of defying gravity, house prices look set to come down to earth.


Mr Manic paid £165,000 for a two-bedroom shop conversion

But will it be a soft-landing for Britain's longest ever property boom, or are we in for a house price crash?

It seemed they would keep going up forever. For nine years house prices have surged ahead with barely a wobble, almost trebling since 1996.

Thousands of ordinary homeowners have watched their wealth increase as the value of their home has soared.

The promise of profit from bricks and mortar has created a generation desperate to buy, at any cost. Adrian Manic, 27, started looking for his first home in January 2004.

"I needed to get on the property ladder," he remembers. "It wasn't a case of spending six or eight months to find a place, because in eight months' time they'd have gone up another 10 grand."

'Dream home'

Mr Manic took out a mortgage for 4.2 times his salary and borrowed a further £15,000 from his father to raise the £165,000 he needed to buy a two-bedroom shop conversion in Ashford, Middlesex.


Tim Ashton sold his house to rent

With no front door, a derelict house next door and a windowless living room, it wasn't exactly his dream home, but that wasn't the point.

"It would go up in price, I could sell it, buy a larger place that would go up in value, then I could sell that and on and on until I ended up with my dream home in the country or something," he explains.

The bad news for Adrian is that the house price boom of the last nine years appears to be finally over, putting an end to his hopes of trading up.

"I'd always dreamed of having a proper home with a garden and a garage, now it looks like I'm going to be stuck in this flat."

The first real signs of a slowdown came in June 2004, when Mervyn King, Governor of the Bank of England, spoke in public about his concerns for the housing market.

"Anyone entering or moving within the housing market should consider carefully the possible future paths of both house prices and interest rates," he said in a speech in Glasgow.


Can anone predict when the UK housing market will stop rising?

The comment, coming on the back of four interest rate rises in seven months, had an immediate effect.

"We saw visitor numbers to our offices decrease dramatically," remembers estate agent Simon Wilkinson, based in Leighton Buzzard, Bedfordshire.

"Hits to our website fell through the floor, the telephones simply stopped ringing."

'Sell-to-rent'

The UK's largest property website, Rightmove, also felt the impact. Visits to its site dropped 7% in the week following Mr King's comments.

By August interest rates had hit 4.75% and the Halifax's monthly price index recorded a house price fall.

Uncertainty about the direction of rates and house prices has introduced caution into the market.

And it's not just prospective buyers who are bailing out.

I think house prices will fall from peak to trough by around 20%

Roger Bootle, Capital Economics

The latest trend in the housing market sees homeowners actually jumping off the ladder; it's a trend called "sell-to-rent".

Tim Ashton is a typical sell-to-renter. He bought his home in 1999 for £125,000 and 4 years later, convinced that prices were about to fall, he sold it for £220,000.

But, instead of buying a new house, he thought it would be better to rent.

"While it was risky being out of the market it was no riskier than being in," he says.

'Struggling'

For those that are in, and have borrowed a lot to get in, the interest rate rises are starting to hit home.

"We are struggling at the moment, just keeping our heads above water," says Olivia Sayfritz, a home-owner from south London.

Mrs Sayfritz and her husband have seen their monthly mortgage payments increase by almost £400 because of rising interest rates.

"If interest rates were to go up again, it would have quite a significant impact on us," she says.


Mervyn King may not have finished raising interest rate rises just yet

Confidence is dented, and some borrowers are feeling the squeeze, but experts are still arguing about where the market is heading.

Will the current cooling give way to steeply falling prices in a house price crash, or will there be a so-called "soft landing" where prices simply stagnate?

Roger Bootle, managing director of Capital Economics, is convinced houses are overvalued and the only way is down.

"I think house prices will fall from peak to trough by around 20%." he says.

"I suspect it will be strung out over a number of years, maybe two, maybe three years, and this year - the first year of falls - maybe it'll be 5 or 6%."

'Dull market'

But David Smith, economics editor of the Sunday Times, thinks low interest rates and a steady economy make such dramatic falls unlikely.

"What we are going to see is modest or no rises in house prices. A very dull market in some ways. A house price crash in the absence of an economic recession? It just doesn't happen in the UK."

Meanwhile, many, like Adrian Manic, are wondering if they jumped in too soon.

"Now that prices are going down I am thinking I was foolish."

However, the Sayfritz family is still holding on to its property dreams.

"I think long term it will pay off," says Andrew Sayfritz. "The trick is to be able to meet rising costs in the meantime."

And, as prices stall and confidence wavers, can any of us dare to believe the longest property boom in UK history will end not with a bang, but a whimper?

The Great House Price Crash 2005? will be broadcast on BBC Two on Friday, 4 March at 1900 GMT.
 
Interest rate hike in Oz, still the market holds.

Just how much higher does the Oz interest rate have to go before investors pull out and let the market slide.?

Will not be buying in the Perth area until the median house price for a 4x2 comes in at 195K from its current 250K +
 
Costello said last week that 'any interest rate under double digits is good' and this morning on the Sunday program John Howard said that 'it is better to have a small increase in interest rates now than a big increase later'.

Given that Costello and Howard choose their weasel words very carefully, the Govt may be softening us up for more increases in interest rates.

If this happens it will be interesting to see what happens to house prices.
 
Interest rate policy

What most media and people fail to understand or clarify is that the government is not in charge of interest rate policy.

This is the Reserve Banks responsibility and all changes are enacted by them based on whether they want to accelerate (by decreasing rates) or ease the economy (by increasing rates). :D
 
The RBA is reactive, it's up to the Government to be proactive.

Surely the Government doesn't expect the RBA to be taking the lead in its stead.
 
MPmelb - The government is in charge of the Reserve Bank. When they get the intestinal fortitude to make the tough decisions they'll take control. Keating enacted legislation to cap the last interest rate hikes.

Lplate - Agree 100%. The Reserve Bank can talk all it wants about excessive consumption etc etc etc but at the end of the day the only tool in it's toolbox is interest rates. The Government has many many tools. They choose not to use them.

Agree 100% with your view that we are being prepared for more hikes to come (although .25% is not a hike in my view). If less than 10% isn't high can I have a 9% pay rise and a 9% tax cut? :)

Odaat - According to conservative views on housing market (Jan Sommers books come to mind) the theory is that people renting wait until rent is close to the cost of a mortgage before they buy. Seeing that the gov't chief financial objective is to keep inflation low then House prices will have to come down.
 
Read the Reserve Bank bulletins to understand what interest rates will be doing.

And the Australian Reserve Bank likes to use scare tactics :)

I don't regard an interest rate rise or two every 15 months as a trend....it's simply an adjustment in line with standing Reserve Bank policy.

Nice UK article - modelled off some Australian articles dating back two years ago I reckon.

Cheers,

Aceyducey
 
Reserve Bank

The Reserve Bank is independent of the governement. If the government was in charge of the Reserve Bank, do you think they would have increased interest rates last month??? (The answer is NO in case you are in doubt).

Interest rates under Paul Keating were 17%! That's why he capped them. He nearly bankrupted the whole country.

In terms of the government having to be proactive, this is true. That's why we have unprecedented high employment and subsequent wage pressures, a low inflation environment, strong property and share market, general strong economy. Hence the interest rate rise by the Reserve Bank to keep things in check.
 
MPmelb said:
The Reserve Bank is independent of the governement. If the government was in charge of the Reserve Bank, do you think they would have increased interest rates last month??? (The answer is NO in case you are in doubt).

Interest rates under Paul Keating were 17%! That's why he capped them. He nearly bankrupted the whole country.

In terms of the government having to be proactive, this is true. That's why we have unprecedented high employment and subsequent wage pressures, a low inflation environment, strong property and share market, general strong economy. Hence the interest rate rise by the Reserve Bank to keep things in check.

Sounds like the party line. It's the Reserve bank mr voter not me :rolleyes: When Howard and his mates get control of the Senate they can pass any legislation they like. Don't we owe more now than when Keating mentioned the infamous "banana republic" line? We don't see the level of debt that Howard left Australia in the last time he was the big Kahuna do we?

Isn't there some qoute about the winner writing history? Or about there being lies, damn lies and statistics? Dig a little deeper into the "unprecedented high employment and subsequent wage pressures, a low inflation environment, strong property and share market, general strong economy.". The Liberal and National (both hide behind the "coalition" tag) parties have done bugger all to manage the economy. Keating and Hawke made the tough decisions, Howard and his mates are masters of reading public opinion and going with the flow.

Does anyone remember that Howard was once the treasurer? Please tell us what his management did with Interest rates. Does 12% ring a bell? Look at IR plotted over time. Hawke and Keating took over whilst they were on an increasing trend. Howard took over as they were decreasing.
 
Punchy,

I see that you've taken the party line for the other party :D

Cheers,

Aceyducey

PS: It's not the winners who write history, it's the survivors. All of us are the end product of generations of survivors. Think about it.
 
Aceyducey said:
Punchy,

I see that you've taken the party line for the other party :D

Cheers,

Aceyducey

PS: It's not the winners who write history, it's the survivors. All of us are the end product of generations of survivors. Think about it.

You've caught me out. Although I was a member of the Lib's when Howard was swept to power. I guess I just root for the under-dog. Come to think about it I vote against the sitting party a vast majority of the time. I think it has to do with my idea that at election time the ruling party tells us all the great things they are going to do and I think "well why haven't you done them already?" :)

I will ponder on your PS :)
 
HI All

As an Acey outed Property Bear I am seeing many drops in my neck of the woods. In Surry Hills Sydney it use to be $340 week rent equalled $340k here. It got as bad as $380 rent equals $570k and now is $400 rent equals $475k.

More drops to come and yes more rate rises I believe.

On the Libs I observe:

1. Next election is 2007/8. Thats a long way off. They know it andwill bring the pain now for the gain later.

2. They are already softening up the States for wholesale change in July when Senate control is handed over and about bloody time. :mad:

As a small business owner we need less and easier laws re tax, levy and crap , not more.

Example. Did you know in NSW from july 2004 your employer now pays workers compensation on wages plus your super!!! :p

Here is the states saying drop taxes on super and they whack up to another 10% tax on super contributions.

How can it be justified?? It is not wages but a forced saving plan. This mean every business has their workers comp costs go up 10% across the board. :(

In construction, you pay 9 and 10% workers comp, so why do you think there are no tradesmen out there??? :rolleyes:

Wholesale IR reform please. ;)

Peter 147
 
odaat,

Will not be buying in the Perth area until the median house price for a 4x2 comes in at 195K from its current 250K +

Then, I believe you will never buy in the Perth area.

~25% of buyers have been investors (refer REIWA website). That is, 75% of buyers are home buyers. The WA state economy is booming, unemployment at 30 year low, population growing, wages increasing, skilled migrants being sought (that is, from overseas), interest rates only fractionally above historical lows, home land and construction costs rising strongly, median prices the cheapest in Australian capitals (was recently, I think it still is), etc., etc.

I think it is best to either recognise the wonderful opportunities in the current Perth market and participate, or seek alternative markets and invest there. There are many opportunities.

It is good to be aware of the pitfalls, however, concentration on the negative instead of the positive will limit your acheivements immeasurably. The difference is night & day.

Where will your next investment be?

best regards,
 
Last edited:
Pete said:
oodat,



Then, I believe you will never buy in the Perth area.

~25% of buyers have been investors (refer REIWA website). That is, 75% of buyers are home buyers. The WA state economy is booming, unemployment at 30 year low, population growing, wages increasing, skilled migrants being sought (that is, from overseas), interest rates only fractionally above historical lows, home land and construction costs rising strongly, median prices the cheapest in Australian capitals (was recently, I think it still is), etc., etc.

I think it is best to either recognise the wonderful opportunities in the current Perth market and participate, or seek alternative markets and invest there. There are many opportunities.

It is good to be aware of the pitfalls, however, concentration on the negative instead of the positive will limit your acheivements immeasurably. The difference is night & day.

Where will your next investment be?

best regards,
****************************************************
Dear Pete and Oodat,

1. I fully agree with Pete's statement about the Perth property market as I am also investing heavily there from Singapore... Please refern to the good write up on Rockingham in WA in the current March 2005 issue API magazine.

2. Thank you.

regards,
Kenneth KOH
 
odaat said:
Will not be buying in the Perth area until the median house price for a 4x2 comes in at 195K from its current 250K +

Oddat,

I certainly can't see the Perth market dropping by 22% given that I think I read the it has dropped only 4 times since 1980 and the largest was around 6 / 7 %.

Think you should reconsider when you intend to buy in.

Regards

Keen
 
Keen said:
Oddat,

I certainly can't see the Perth market dropping by 22% given that I think I read the it has dropped only 4 times since 1980 and the largest was around 6 / 7 %.

Think you should reconsider when you intend to buy in.

Regards

Keen


I know little about the WA market, other than that I hear Perth is going gangbusters, HOWEVER, the premise in the comment above, is not sound.

1) Just because a market hasn't dropped 22% before, in not sufficient reason to assert that it won't do so.

2) Throughout history, within and without Australia, some of the strongest markets have dropped the most.

3) Belief in an infallible market - very dangerous stuff, and in my book, one of THE PRIME CLUES that I look for, prior to deciding to bail out !

Regards
JamesP
 
JP1746 said:
I know little about the WA market, other than that I hear Perth is going gangbusters, HOWEVER, the premise in the comment above, is not sound.

1) Just because a market hasn't dropped 22% before, in not sufficient reason to assert that it won't do so.

2) Throughout history, within and without Australia, some of the strongest markets have dropped the most.

3) Belief in an infallible market - very dangerous stuff, and in my book, one of THE PRIME CLUES that I look for, prior to deciding to bail out !

Regards
JamesP
****************************************************8
Dear JamesP,

1. What is the name of the book which you will be writing soon?

2. Care to explain and further elaborate on your point 3) and what is meant by the term "going gangbuster"?

3. Thank you.

regards,
Kenneth KOH
 
Kennethkohsg said:
****************************************************8
Dear JamesP,

1. What is the name of the book which you will be writing soon?

2. Care to explain and further elaborate on your point 3) and what is meant by the term "going gangbuster"?

3. Thank you.

regards,
Kenneth KOH

1) The Joys Of Refridgeration Mechanics

2) No, not really. If you can't understand it as read, there's little hope. Going gangbusters ? It's when a mob of gangsters break into you're house and bust up your goings on.

3) No need, in your case

JamesP
 
Back
Top