The importance of educating women.
- Thread starter nhg
- Start date
That's what I used to think too. But then I changed my mind.
Somewhat back on topic.
I was discussing with my mother on the weekend some of my trials and tribulations getting a Perth Council to understand my vision and approve it. She asked me 'do you think it's because you're female that they don't want to listen to you?'. I thought about it for 3 seconds and dismissed it. Simply because if I was to believe that women developers are going to be maligned and dismissed then I would never be able to get anywhere in my job.
I've worked in a male dominated industry since I was 20 (aka for 20yrs) and been successful at it. I have learnt a lot of things that women do that hinder themselves and learnt a lot of things that men do that don't hinder. I have grown metaphoric balls to get where I am today, not because I need to be more manlike but because I think you can learn from both sexes to become a better person.
I was discussing with my mother on the weekend some of my trials and tribulations getting a Perth Council to understand my vision and approve it. She asked me 'do you think it's because you're female that they don't want to listen to you?'. I thought about it for 3 seconds and dismissed it. Simply because if I was to believe that women developers are going to be maligned and dismissed then I would never be able to get anywhere in my job.
I've worked in a male dominated industry since I was 20 (aka for 20yrs) and been successful at it. I have learnt a lot of things that women do that hinder themselves and learnt a lot of things that men do that don't hinder. I have grown metaphoric balls to get where I am today, not because I need to be more manlike but because I think you can learn from both sexes to become a better person.
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Love the e-card. Need to spread my kudos around before I can give you more 
Love it too. My Dad once told me I had more balls than him
Would love to know more about some of the things we do to hold ourselves back and what things we can do to keep going.... probably I do know but... since we've just about said it all anyway...
Wonder if it can be done without putting women down.
P.S. I've given out too much kudos in the last 24 hours.
My list of things: **
** some are generalised, they do not apply to all women, they do not apply to all men. They are simple things to be aware off.
1. Always sit at the table. This is the Sheryl Sandberg thing about Leaning In. Women often are the first to take the outer layer seats around a conference table. *Always* take a place at the table
2. When sitting at the table - participate - don't wait for someone to ask your opinion. A good meeting facilitator will seek opinion from everyone, but don't rely on that. You want your voice to be heard.
3. Raise your voice - in general men get further in their careers because they are vocal about what they are doing, what they are achieving, what they want to achieve, what the company should do to get them there. This is not rocket science but something that women find hard to do. They feel like they are showing off etc.
4. Always think one position ahead. This can be a male trait. Some people are happy in their job, some people naturally grow towards jobs. Some people need to learn to look forwards
5. Take 50% of sick kid time. Mums somehow end up always the one having to take time off when the kids are sick. Negotiate something with your DH and work out who draws the short straw.
6. Don't be the one who 'does everything'. It's the quickest way to burn out - you do not need to be Super Mum or Super Anything. Household work, parenting, shopping, cooking etc are all things that can be shared with your partner or outsourced. No woman ever died wishing she had ironed more shirts, cooked more cordon bleu dinners, created more fancier ballet costumes etc.
I have more but that's it for now.
** some are generalised, they do not apply to all women, they do not apply to all men. They are simple things to be aware off.
1. Always sit at the table. This is the Sheryl Sandberg thing about Leaning In. Women often are the first to take the outer layer seats around a conference table. *Always* take a place at the table
2. When sitting at the table - participate - don't wait for someone to ask your opinion. A good meeting facilitator will seek opinion from everyone, but don't rely on that. You want your voice to be heard.
3. Raise your voice - in general men get further in their careers because they are vocal about what they are doing, what they are achieving, what they want to achieve, what the company should do to get them there. This is not rocket science but something that women find hard to do. They feel like they are showing off etc.
4. Always think one position ahead. This can be a male trait. Some people are happy in their job, some people naturally grow towards jobs. Some people need to learn to look forwards
5. Take 50% of sick kid time. Mums somehow end up always the one having to take time off when the kids are sick. Negotiate something with your DH and work out who draws the short straw.
6. Don't be the one who 'does everything'. It's the quickest way to burn out - you do not need to be Super Mum or Super Anything. Household work, parenting, shopping, cooking etc are all things that can be shared with your partner or outsourced. No woman ever died wishing she had ironed more shirts, cooked more cordon bleu dinners, created more fancier ballet costumes etc.
I have more but that's it for now.
Here's my advice. If women want to hop off the swing set and come play in the sand pit with the boys, you adapt to our rules and the way we play the game.
Don't barge in expecting the goalposts to be moved to suit you. THIS is the reason women get grudging respect from men in the workplace. You all chant about how you're equal to men and can do anything men can do (you can't, not by a long shot), yet demand special treatment and concessions.
Respect is earned, not given.
One more thing - don't pull a Sheryl Sandberg and go into your office for a cry on the regular. How that woman got as far as she did is beyond me. She clearly does not have what it takes to be in the position she is in. You think I'm wrong or 'sexist'? Tell me whether you think a man who did that would have gotten that far.
Don't barge in expecting the goalposts to be moved to suit you. THIS is the reason women get grudging respect from men in the workplace. You all chant about how you're equal to men and can do anything men can do (you can't, not by a long shot), yet demand special treatment and concessions.
Respect is earned, not given.
One more thing - don't pull a Sheryl Sandberg and go into your office for a cry on the regular. How that woman got as far as she did is beyond me. She clearly does not have what it takes to be in the position she is in. You think I'm wrong or 'sexist'? Tell me whether you think a man who did that would have gotten that far.
I don't think she is the be all and end all but she has some good teachings. You take what you want to learn and you see how to fit with your ethos.
Whether or not she goes into her office and cries it moot to me. I don't want to be a CEO of Facebook or whatever she is so I don't seek to emulate her. I seek to learn from others and be as good as I can be.
I don't expect special treatment, I much prefer to be thought of as 'one of the boys' HOWEVER the way that men play the game might not be the RIGHT way all the time. Just because it's the way that you or someone else does it, doesn't mean that its the best or the right way to do it. So I don't have to adapt if I don't agree with the sand pit rules but if the rest of the sand pit players say that's the way it is, then I'm not going to throw sand and have a tanty. I'll work it through or leave for another sand pit where the rules are better.
I think that we can learn from each other.
