The secret to my success

New to this forum so starting my learning curve hopefully to what i one day can consider 'success' ;)

Ive read just about every post in this entire thread and it has been an awesome experience and read along with the fishing analogy as well as the Keith getting to a millionaire in 5 years read, both have been saved to read again and understand as i progress in my maturity and knowledge.

Basically i see Property as similar to Gambling/betting and stocks. I am quite a successful gambler but thats not the point. Ive been in the industry heavily for 2 years now and have come to understand (which i think is part of 'the success' ultimatum). In a gambling i sit on a thread and see hundreds of posters say they are getting on this team, hundreds follow because humans really have sheep tendencies. So after that 1.60 favourite has come into 1.20 meaning the underdog has gone the other way, say 2.60 to 4.00 you jump on the under dog going against the Majority of human thought to take what people call the "Value". You might not think its going to necessarily be a winner but you believe it should really be a 2.60-2.80 underdog not 4.0+.

If you do this long enough over a long enough period you will likely end up ahead because you are getting way over the odds than you think it should be, eventually enough winners will come for you to make money, during the way you might go down but long enough youll end up ahead. Its similar with stocks.

A poster mentioned going against the majority. Hes right to some degree, you still need to weigh up whether the 'value' is there.

Ive read and bookmarked some of those Rixter and See_change long post about success. Basically what i think the Success= Action + Decision ect Rixter is very right although he misses one other point and that is to 'Evaluate' and learn from your mistakes. From reading @Rixter has been heavy on 'Action and/or Doing'. You cant change something if you dont do anything. Doing means you can see what you need to change to improve and that comes from evaluating. So yes id say for both these great minds success would involve ACTION as Rixters does.

If you do something enough and evaluate successfully leading to appropriate change eventually you will end up hitting the jackpot to success. Isnt that what we all do in life with anything we are successful in. We do it alot and if we are successful we must have evaluated and learnt alot from doing it. Ill add something else important about learning - you learn from the best and worse. @See_change and @Rixter seem the best but you can also not do what the worse do, its still learning.

FWIW im 23, yet to buy property but am now looking and am starting my research over the past few months. Im unsure if its the right time to buy im trying to work that out. All these taxes, people losing jobs in perth and really hard to get as companies and the government continue to cut back on construction cost? We all know the cost of property correlates with cost on construction and income.

I hope i havnt come across as being a no all because im fully aware i have so much to learn and am certainly anything but a very knowledgeable person yet in this area. Just adding my 2 cents to the discussion and my food for thought.

Go easy on me :)

Z6 - Also how do i watch threads such as this?
 
I'm more your plodding investor, my plan wasn't a racey 5 years more a plodding 15 and at year 15 it certainly worked! I'm also not into going against the masses in RE particularly I think the best time to invest is just as the herd starts to move, harder to spot the herd in stocks IMO.
If you bought in some Sydney markets 8 years ago nothing was moving and things just got worse from there until recently. Things started to heat up 12+ months ago and that was a great time to invest. I'm a Brisbane local and things are heating up, hence why everyone's talking it up. My problem is I'm only looking for a Ppor in 1 market and stock is just to tight! Bring on spring with a flood of properties.
 
Net of savings. Common sense no? I may have a lot of outstanding debt, but maybe my debt is entirely offset by cash in offset account. Everything comes back down to the most basic, fundamental things.

+1000 to the above Delta, Many Doom and gloom figures that we see online these days only add up the debt forgetting that most common sense buyers have exit strategies and savings on the side...
Very little common sense can go a long way but unfortunately these days common sense is not so common anymore :)

PS: Brilliant thread
 
I'm more your plodding investor, my plan wasn't a racey 5 years more a plodding 15 and at year 15 it certainly worked! I'm also not into going against the masses in RE particularly I think the best time to invest is just as the herd starts to move, harder to spot the herd in stocks IMO.
If you bought in some Sydney markets 8 years ago nothing was moving and things just got worse from there until recently. Things started to heat up 12+ months ago and that was a great time to invest. I'm a Brisbane local and things are heating up, hence why everyone's talking it up. My problem is I'm only looking for a Ppor in 1 market and stock is just to tight! Bring on spring with a flood of properties.

I'll buy in two situations . The above ( we bought four places in brisbane late last year ), but also in really good positions at what I think is the bottom and that's not when the market has come off the boil . the market will usually drop for a while .

In good places in Sydney the peak of the market was around 2003 . We bought two units in Mosman shortly after the GFC . Didn't pay fair market price . They were asking 1.275 for the two , We offered 800 and they came back with " wouldn't sell under 900 " which we were happy to pay. I think we picked the bottom , but that wasn't the aim. I knew that it was a price we weren't going to see again . I wasn't sure how long it would take to go up . It was a long term buy and didn't stretch us . They're up over 60 % from when we bought .

Cliff
 
+1000 to the above Delta, Many Doom and gloom figures that we see online these days only add up the debt forgetting that most common sense buyers have exit strategies and savings on the side...
Very little common sense can go a long way but unfortunately these days common sense is not so common anymore :)

PS: Brilliant thread
If everyone's exit strategy involves selling some property, what do you think that does to prices if everyone tries to do it at once? Just because you have savings as a buffer in your offset account doesn't mean that others who have overextended themselves with large loans have the same... and prices are dictated by those who are forced to sell, not those who have enough cash to last as a buffer.

As linked earlier... have some more discussion on private debt levels in this thread for those who want: http://somersoft.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101322

Otherwise you might have someone crack a fruity and put you on his ignore list too :D
 
Hey Hobo-jo,
Comment was intended more about success than discussing debt levels as in a part of any successful investor's journey would be having an adequate exit strategy... :)

Cheers
 
If everyone's exit strategy involves selling some property, what do you think that does to prices if everyone tries to do it at once? D

Who else other than you has suggested that everyones exit strategy would be selling some property?

This is off in fairyland.
 
There can be more than one reason for an exit strategy. I misunderstood PaulF's context, which is understandable given that he was responding to a chain of posts relating to excessive levels of private debt. No need for the 'pile on' :D

pile-on.jpg
 
I trade (buy and sell) property all the time to reduce debt and to ensure I have plenty of cash for developments and holding stock (deve sites) and also to provide another income stream.

My deals not necessarily all developments continue to provide greater income than my rentals.

When I started investing I sold nothing, the buy and hold strategy was what I knew and what I was comfortable doing and I made money in rising markets and I also got stuck with stock when the market crashed, I think this happens to everyone who holds. So this is the passive style of investing.

I started reading posts by some of the developers on this site Oc1, Rockstar, Westminster to name a few and was wondering why these guys were making large chunks of money at fraction of the time, light globe moment.

All to their own, but this is the long story on why I don't hold all my properties. This is also not a competition on which strategy is best, but I am glad that I decided to get off my **** and step outside my comfort zone I just wish I did this years ago.

MTR:)
 
If everyone's exit strategy involves selling some property, what do you think that does to prices if everyone tries to do it at once? Just because you have savings as a buffer in your offset account doesn't mean that others who have overextended themselves with large loans have the same... and prices are dictated by those who are forced to sell, not those who have enough cash to last as a buffer.D

I used to my wife's similar concern as above. hobo-jo's question on "exit" strategy is very valid, but the solution is fundamentally wrong.

At March 2008 when the interest rate was at 9%, I was thinking to sell one property, actually brought an old contract to the office, and contacting agents. But not go ahead due to GFC comes.

Today, "concerns me the most about my 10 millions IP holdings" is "how to hold them through the next interest rate up cycle".

Yes, selling one property is good enough to get through the cycle and it is the most easy/simply solution, but that is against my Somersoft IP investment strategies: never sell.

There are many other options for me to resolve the issue such as building dual occupancy, Granny flat.

I have completed one dual occupancy last year before going to purchase in Brisbane and Adelaide. I am working on two more Granny flats for next 2 years. Probably, I will build another one or two more after this depending on what happens 3 years later.

In the end, for the normal IP investments, Exit isn't equal to "sell" at all. Exit is probably equal to refinance sometimes.

Selling is the last option in order to meet any emergency requirements.

In fact, during property tough time in Sydney, very few properties are on the market for sell. We simply hold on it.
 
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I trade (buy and sell) property all the time to reduce debt and to ensure I have plenty of cash for developments and holding stock (deve sites) and also to provide another income stream.

My deals not necessarily all developments continue to provide greater income than my rentals.

*edit*

I started reading posts by some of the developers on this site Oc1, Rockstar, Westminster to name a few and was wondering why these guys were making large chunks of money at fraction of the time, light globe moment.

I am on this boat too.

The aim of the/my game is to maximise profits, with minimal risk in the smallest amount of time.

Holding onto rentals does not meet that criteria, thus why I'm moving into development as well.

Holding onto stock impedes my borrowing capacity, which means I'm stuck doing smaller developments. I found a unit which will make me $50-80k profit, but then what, if I sell my profits are eroded but worst of all I loose half a mil borrowing capacity which means my next deal needs to be smaller.

At this time my investments are heavily positive geared which has helped INCREASE my borrowing capacity, but moving forward I am looking to make lump sum profits and remove the risk within a short period (2 years or under).

But... the former investments were required as training wheels to get up to where I am, the granny flat construction (using a builder) is just the next step in learning how to work with builders before moving into duplex, triplex and unit blocks. I could save $30k doing the building work myself, but where does that leave me, $30k capital doing the work myself isn't going to help me learn how to work with builders to undertake multi-house developments and make $300k capital.
 
New to this forum so starting my learning curve hopefully to what i one day can consider 'success' ;)

Ive read and bookmarked some of those Rixter and See_change long post about success. Basically what i think the Success= Action + Decision ect Rixter is very right although he misses one other point and that is to 'Evaluate' and learn from your mistakes. From reading @Rixter has been heavy on 'Action and/or Doing'. You cant change something if you dont do anything. Doing means you can see what you need to change to improve and that comes from evaluating. So yes id say for both these great minds success would involve ACTION as Rixters does.

If you do something enough and evaluate successfully leading to appropriate change eventually you will end up hitting the jackpot to success. Isnt that what we all do in life with anything we are successful in. We do it alot and if we are successful we must have evaluated and learnt alot from doing it. Ill add something else important about learning - you learn from the best and worse. @See_change and @Rixter seem the best but you can also not do what the worse do, its still learning.

FWIW im 23, yet to buy property but am now looking and am starting my research over the past few months. Im unsure if its the right time to buy im trying to work that out. All these taxes, people losing jobs in perth and really hard to get as companies and the government continue to cut back on construction cost? We all know the cost of property correlates with cost on construction and income.

I hope i havnt come across as being a no all because im fully aware i have so much to learn and am certainly anything but a very knowledgeable person yet in this area. Just adding my 2 cents to the discussion and my food for thought.

Go easy on me :)

Z6 - Also how do i watch threads such as this?

Z6,

BTW hope that's the car you hope to own :) Love them

Welcome. You can subscribe to a thread when you click on reply, it it one of the pulldown option boxes at the bottom underneath your reply.

Although you are young it sounds like you have a few of the mental challenges already sorted. It is totally correct that research, education and self thinking are critical to your own success. You need to work out what works for you using your own criteria, your own brain and your own appetite for risk. Only then will you be your own success. That success will be different to Person X and Person Y.

And it's ok to change that perception of success. As your investment practices mature you may change strategy and your level of success may move to give further challenge.
 
I trade (buy and sell) property all the time to reduce debt and to ensure I have plenty of cash for developments and holding stock (deve sites) and also to provide another income stream.

My deals not necessarily all developments continue to provide greater income than my rentals.

When I started investing I sold nothing, the buy and hold strategy was what I knew and what I was comfortable doing and I made money in rising markets and I also got stuck with stock when the market crashed, I think this happens to everyone who holds. So this is the passive style of investing.

I started reading posts by some of the developers on this site Oc1, Rockstar, Westminster to name a few and was wondering why these guys were making large chunks of money at fraction of the time, light globe moment.

All to their own, but this is the long story on why I don't hold all my properties. This is also not a competition on which strategy is best, but I am glad that I decided to get off my **** and step outside my comfort zone I just wish I did this years ago.

MTR:)

Momentum and the Velocity of Money?
 
Basically what i think the Success= Action + Decision ect Rixter is very right although he misses one other point and that is to 'Evaluate' and learn from your mistakes.

Success = Vision x Decision x Action.

You have to "multiply" the components, not add them for the formula to work.

For me Evaluation falls under the Decision making heading. I can't make a good Decision without evaluating/analysing first.

Welcome to the forum.
 
At this stage of my investing career I cant really comment on 'success'. Its more of a work in progress.

However, one excuse I commonly hear is "I cant do that as Im on low income".
And while I achknowledge that it is easier to invest on a high income it is not a pre-requisit (though fair duce to those who manage it).

I think aiming to earn more is often overlooked when planning out a strategy.

One of my success's in investing was my goal (at the age of 20) to double my salary every 5 years.
This is an abitious target to say the least, however, I have been able to not only achieve it, but exceed the target quite comfortably.
This has not been an accident. Nor have I been lucky. It has required targeted and strategic effort - and a lot of "overtime" (not always at work).

Dont underestimate your ability to generate additional income. Be it salary, investing or your own business. Strategically targeting additional income sources/streams will make a big difference in your investing life.

Its my 2c

Blacky
 
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Dont underestimate your ability to generate additional income. Be it salary, investing or your own business. Strategically targeting additional income sources/streams will make a big difference in your investing life.

Its my 2c

Blacky

Great advice and as one of my mentors says regularly to me "put it on steroids Col" in reference to focusing on business revenue to enhance investing options.

Also to bear in mind your business or employment revenue is the underpinnings of your investment portfolio and will dictate what you can and cant achieve!
 
I think aiming to earn more is often overlooked when planning out a strategy.

One of my success's in investing was my goal (at the age of 20) to double my salary every 5 years.

Dont underestimate your ability to generate additional income. Be it salary, investing or your own business. Strategically targeting additional income sources/streams will make a big difference in your investing life.

Kudos,

This is a lesson learnt from speaking with some of the most successful investors on this forum face-to-face.

Thus the focus on lump sum profits and building several business revenues. Just like they did. It really isn't a case of reinventing the wheel, just putting lessons from the past into practice.
 
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