What constitutes 'reasonably clean condition'?

[poordeveloper]

Hi all,

I just vacated a rental property last week and left the property in what I considered to be a very clean condition. It was certainly cleaner that when I moved in and in a cleaner state than my own IP's have ever been left! My partner and I spent several days cleaning inside and out and went as far as to clean inside all kitchen/bathroom/bedroom cupboards and wipe down walls - which many people do not do. We even re-arranged our work-week so that we could have the place cleaned prior to the agent opening it for a Saturday inspection!

Today I received an email from the property managers assistant who listed no less than 7 issues that must be addressed before the bond will be returned. Some of these are valid (eg: we forgot to clean the exhaust fan in the bathroom). However, most of the issues are about very small things (eg: some washing powder marks on the door below the laundry trough).

The unit wasn't particularly clean when we commenced the lease and I did note a few things on the condition report - but also assumed that the owner/agent would expect the property to be in a similar condition at the end of the lease so didn't go into excessive detail about every little thing. In fact, it seems that they expect me to return it to them in better condition than it was left for me!

Addressing these issues means taking time off work and travelling. I'm prepared to do this, but I feel somewhat disappointed that the agent isn't being reasonable about the required standard. If I refuse to address certain items (those which I believe were not caused during my tenanacy), is a VCAT tribunal likely to require me to pay cleaning costs for issues such as dust on the powerpoints and skirting boards??

Thanks,

pd

 

[twobobsworth]

but also assumed that the owner/agent would expect the property to be in a similar condition at the end of the lease so didn't go into excessive detail about every little thing.

Do you think the agent would remember what the place was like when you moved in?

 

[poordeveloper]

Do you think the agent would remember what the place was like when you moved in?

No, I wouldn't expect so. But I'd expect them to be reasonable about certain things - such as 'dust' on the upper edges of power points.

 

[GoAnna!]

I think the smart tenants just pay for the PM's cleaner to do the exit clean. Then the PM needs to take any issues to the cleaner not the tenant.

Its a little unreasonable to expect you to leave it cleaner than you found it. Have you had a chat to the PM regarding this?

 

[poordeveloper]

I think the smart tenants just pay for the PM's cleaner to do the exit clean. Then the PM needs to take any issues to the cleaner not the tenant.

Its a little unreasonable to expect you to leave it cleaner than you found it. Have you had a chat to the PM regarding this?

Good point about the cleaner. I didn't know they had one until they asked whether I wanted to use their cleaner to 'address these issues'.

I did take it up with the PM - unfortunately it was transferred to another PM (within the same agency) during my tenancy. I guess the lesson is to document and photograph as much as possible on the condition report.

 

[Alabex]

basically they can ask for it to be returned to the same condition as the condition report. Because there is reguallarly change over s in staff this is the only document the new staff member has to go on.

Condition reports need to be really detailed, and i always advise friends/family to put down EVERYTHIGN On the document even if they think it is small.

Also i find with tenants (and even with my own place!) because you have been living there you dont even notice some things until you really look hard... such as finger prints on light switches, grim on the edge or runners of cupboards, finger around kitchen door handles....

Having been a property manager previously i often look through my house (and my mums ) and notice things... it has turned me into a riddiculous clean freak.

But in the property managers defense if you let every tenant leave a "couple of things" not clean, then after two or three tenants you get a place that is completely not clean... so it is easier to be strick from the start and the place will end up looking alot better in the long run.

The things you mention do sound pretty minor, and would probably only take half and hour and a quick wipe to rectify. I would just cut your losses, go back and spend the extra time and leave the PM feeling positive about your exit.

 

[Rel]

Over the Top

I think they are over the top, if all they are worrying about are those minor issues I think they are being too harsh.

You are expected to leave the premises in good condition, fair wear and tear excepted.

If what you say is true, I'd love to have a tenant like you anyday.

 

[fernfurn]

We cleaned our rental way cleaner than when we went in. The exhaust fans in kitchen and bathroom hadnt been cleaned for years and I even did them. In the beginning I touched up paint on skirting boards that had been quickly painted over navy blue to white and chipped, making it look dirty and shabby. One roman curtain in the kitchen was just hanging down and I safety pinned it up to look respectable, the other one was nailed into position and unmoveable, the whole place looked derelict but we had leased it off the internet and they onlyshowed the outside and main bedroom. The curtains in that photo must have been the previous tenants as they werent there when we got there. We had to complain numerous times to get things fixed and the answer always was, the owner is overseas and cant be contacted yet. When we left I asked if the same property manager was still there and luck would have it she was and so maybe would have remembered the property, but she still complained about some things and when I objected she brushed it off and said we had to pay for a broken window in the garage. She then got a quote for tinted glass at $240 for a little pane, when I queried this she said it was tinted. I dont remember it being tinted so she said she would ring the owners and see it they would accept plain glass. Who puts tinted windows in the east side of a garage. Then she got onto the owners within 2 hours (??) and halved the quote. I had never rented before but would certainly go around with a video when I went in next time

 

[Dazz]

We cleaned our rental way cleaner than when we went in.

Both my parents instilled in all of us as we were growing up this maxim ;

"Whenever you borrow or use something that belongs to someone else, make sure you return it in better condition than when you borrowed it."

Of course, that was before I found out about solicitors and what they do.

 

[lura]

Go back to your entry condition report on those particular issues.

Generally, a good guide for clean is - it needs to be clean enough so that the next lot of tenants do not have complaints to the property managers about the state of clean or have to clean it before moving their belongings in.

Everyone has a different interpretation on clean and so many people say it is cleaner than when they moved in (most of the time they are right) but pm's only have documentation to work with - so go back to your entry condition report and if you have left if cleaner than stated on there then you have nothing to worry about.

 

[marg4000]

Simply go back and remedy any faults you agree with.

Then go back to the agent and tell them you have completed all points mentioned.

Daughter moved out of a rental some years ago, the place sparkled. Agent came up with a list of extremely minor points, including "one hair on the vanity" (I kid you not). When we went back we could not find it.

Tellingly, when we returned the keys to the agent she did not even bother to go back to the house to check that we had done what she reckoned needed doing, most of which we could not even find, and simply signed the consent forms for the full return of bond.

Seems some PMs simply send you back so that they can impress the owners with their thoroughness.
Marg

 

[jasper]

Live and learn.

This is why you put absolutely EVERYTHING on a condition report. Look, dust on tops of light switches and laundry powder in cupboard you should fix. IF the agent has a professional cleaner come in and do it before the tribunal hearing the case will probibly go in her favour as she showed that it needed to be done before re occupation. Unless you have stated on your condition report that there was a pre exixting issue with the state of the house you will just have to go back and do it or wear the cost.

Not fair I know, but we live and learn.

 

[mary&mat]

Hi bunnywabbit,

You could check out Shannon Lush's cleaning tips, i think she uses pretty normal products like Bicarb & Metho to get a lot of tough marks off things.

If it's really bad, could you use a very very fine sandpaper & gently 'dust' it off?

 

[badcliq]

If as most people here say, "I clean it better than when I first move into the prorperty", this shouldn't lead to the cases of people complaining the property was not as cleaned in the first place because those who left would normally done a better job!

I guess it's just the standard and acceptance level of cleaning for each individual. In RTA, it's just a grey area, which normally favours the tenants anyway.

As long as you can prove that you have done the cleaning and hard work, if the agents come back at you saying it's not good enough, it's a good chance you don't have to bother. If it drags to VCAT, you'll win anyway!

I got a cleaner to clean my house (3br double story townhouse) and the agent insists that I clean every single venetian blinds one by one. I said, not going to happen as it's not black or anything, and the property is more than reasonably clean. They refunded my full bond within 14 days.