What does "affordability" mean to you?
- Thread starter hobo-jo
- Start date
I just had lunch with a friend today. Recently married, both working in corporate jobs earning about 60k and 90k between them.
Was complaining to me about how expensive property is. I asked him where is he looking to buy - he said 'South Yarra' or 'Richmond'. I told him that no one knows what property is going to do in 1 year, let alone 5 years time, and if he likes a house he should just buy it but have a buffer in case one of them loses their job...
Next thing I know he tells me he is going on a holiday to Europe end of this year...lol
Was complaining to me about how expensive property is. I asked him where is he looking to buy - he said 'South Yarra' or 'Richmond'. I told him that no one knows what property is going to do in 1 year, let alone 5 years time, and if he likes a house he should just buy it but have a buffer in case one of them loses their job...
Next thing I know he tells me he is going on a holiday to Europe end of this year...lol
Property
Hi Slater thanks for being sensible. I notice you joined Somersoft Forum in Nov 2003 and you have submitted quite a lot of posts. 6467 posts or 2.5 posts per day. That shows passion...
May I ask how many properties you owned prior to 2003 and how many properties post 2003?
Clearly you are passionate about the Somersoft Forum.
It would be interesting to ask you about your property portfolio if that is not too bold? As clearly you are a property investor.
Thank you
Hi Slater thanks for being sensible. I notice you joined Somersoft Forum in Nov 2003 and you have submitted quite a lot of posts. 6467 posts or 2.5 posts per day. That shows passion...
May I ask how many properties you owned prior to 2003 and how many properties post 2003?
Clearly you are passionate about the Somersoft Forum.
It would be interesting to ask you about your property portfolio if that is not too bold? As clearly you are a property investor.
Thank you
This represents 95% of the people we all know (and don't know).
Great intentions, have the opportunity, and never act.
I'll bet if you suggested some more obscure area that is cheap, hasn't boomed yet, good indicators for CG and rent returns, they'd poo-hoo it like it was a leper colony. Seen it several times before.
Here's one of my experiences in this area;
A while ago I worked at the hospital as a lowly PSA. One of my work colleagues (a nurse) found out (I don't know how; I didn't tell her - I tell no-one outside of here what we do) we were up to 5 IP's.
She came to me one day at work and started a conversation about them; no doubt intrigued to know how a PSA could have this many (PSA's are the bottom of the medical profession food chain in terms of rank and pay rates - a nurse's aid/cleaner basically).
When I told her a few of the locations I could see her shutters go down immediately.
She then said; "Oh...I thought you would buy 'blue chip' properties!"
She still has not bought anything.
My wife still sees her at work (she works in the same hospital that I did), and this woman often gets in the subliminal dig at her (and anyone else who will listen) about where we live (Drug-mana) as opposed to her dwelling in Mt.Eliza ("post code" suburb).
No..you are embarrasing yourself here on a property investors forum as been said before. Give it up Mate and move on to something better. You just love to argue down to the nitpickin' tiniest points with such diatribe it's unbelievable.
A troll on this forum takes a single line out of context from my blog, rubs it in my face in multiple threads that are unrelated to the content and I'm the one "nit picking"? Riiiiggghttt. Where was the need to drag up a one month old argument?*You just love to argue down to the nitpickin' tiniest points with such diatribe it's unbelievable.
*rhetorical question, no need to answer. Find someone else to troll.
I am not going to revisit this issue and instead let everyone else decide whether your view that a 30% crash in silver is NOT a crash and what that says about your stance and ability to admit wrongs.
However please refrain from calling me a troll. If my comments constitute being a troll then given your own position and tone you too are a troll by your own definition. So please don’t try a shroud yourself in high morality and innocence because when it comes to language and tone of your posts your no better than mine, the only difference I don’t come back to a thread and accuse the other of being a troll like an upset child.
If your prepared to dish it out then the least you can do is cop it when someone like me is only too happy to return the favour.
However please refrain from calling me a troll. If my comments constitute being a troll then given your own position and tone you too are a troll by your own definition. So please don’t try a shroud yourself in high morality and innocence because when it comes to language and tone of your posts your no better than mine, the only difference I don’t come back to a thread and accuse the other of being a troll like an upset child.
If your prepared to dish it out then the least you can do is cop it when someone like me is only too happy to return the favour.
You keep shoving this in my face, but this is what I said a month ago:
Silver is still well up from the start of the year. That said since the January sentence (which you cherry picked) I have made multiple other suggestions about where the price might go short term, including the suggestion it could head sub $30 given the end of QE2 without QE3 (which was not obvious at the time of my January statement). With my short term predictions I have been wrong at times; I have been right at times. They don’t really have any bearing on where I think the metals are heading relative to property over the medium term. I don’t regularly trade based on my short term predictions/opinions so it’s really of no consequence.
Clearly with your continual badgering of me in unrelated threads saying that I said there was no crash is complete rubbish and the sort of hounding activity I would expect from a troll. So that is what you are.
Don't think for a second that Hobo isn't loving this.
We've had a few decent discussions/debates over the last few months and I can't help but think he is like the Carlton supporter that sits with the Collingwood fans every now and again for entertainment value.
Personally I like metals (as a sort of natural hedge against difficult times where property and shares are unlikely to flourish) however if I was anti gold/silver/platinum/palladium I probably wouldn't spend my time on a metals website winding up a group of people that are clearly going to disagree with me all day, every day.
We've had a few decent discussions/debates over the last few months and I can't help but think he is like the Carlton supporter that sits with the Collingwood fans every now and again for entertainment value.
Personally I like metals (as a sort of natural hedge against difficult times where property and shares are unlikely to flourish) however if I was anti gold/silver/platinum/palladium I probably wouldn't spend my time on a metals website winding up a group of people that are clearly going to disagree with me all day, every day.
At risk of repeating myself -
If it weren't for the entire plethora of profligate government incentives distributed throughout the GFC for cynical self-serving party-political advantage the real estate market would have already corrected substantially, as it will surely do most imminently.
And proponents of this hard news have no motive other than the altrusitic intent of informing others on this property forum to wait, like themselves, for the opportunity to benefit their own self interests enormously when the real carnage soon erupts. The bargain property-buying opportunities will be glorious!
In the meantime though, utilise other investment markets, like stocks, currency and metal futures, to quickly multiply your liquid capital assets in readiness to pounce when property market prices really collapse.
Above all, remain firm in your conviction that while you are disseminating this advice you are motivated strictly by legitimate self interest alone, and not by any consideration for an alleged public interest in a major housing price reduction across this country. That would be a socialistic objective, but you're a champion only of free markets, as your repeated incisive criticism of profligate government housing incentives shows.
If you find you have to constantly draw on the work of avowedly leftist economists like Steve Keen, Leith van Olsenen and Saul Bellow to expose the truth that's fine, because they're economists, and so only deal in facts that have no inherent bias themselves. Reporting their conclusions doesn't make you a leftist either, because you're only motivated in doing this out of personal capitalistic self interest.
Whatever you do, keep repeating to yourself and others the mantra: You do not, and have never intended to, contribute to a thoroughly leftist political campaign to shift public opinion in favour of intentionally lowering the price of housing in this country. If the government doesn't intervene in markets during major economic upheavals, and that results in massive housing price falls, that's a politically irrelevant by-product of the free markets you champion exclusively for reason of your own self interest.
Remember, you do not envy successful property investors!
If it weren't for the entire plethora of profligate government incentives distributed throughout the GFC for cynical self-serving party-political advantage the real estate market would have already corrected substantially, as it will surely do most imminently.
And proponents of this hard news have no motive other than the altrusitic intent of informing others on this property forum to wait, like themselves, for the opportunity to benefit their own self interests enormously when the real carnage soon erupts. The bargain property-buying opportunities will be glorious!
In the meantime though, utilise other investment markets, like stocks, currency and metal futures, to quickly multiply your liquid capital assets in readiness to pounce when property market prices really collapse.
Above all, remain firm in your conviction that while you are disseminating this advice you are motivated strictly by legitimate self interest alone, and not by any consideration for an alleged public interest in a major housing price reduction across this country. That would be a socialistic objective, but you're a champion only of free markets, as your repeated incisive criticism of profligate government housing incentives shows.
If you find you have to constantly draw on the work of avowedly leftist economists like Steve Keen, Leith van Olsenen and Saul Bellow to expose the truth that's fine, because they're economists, and so only deal in facts that have no inherent bias themselves. Reporting their conclusions doesn't make you a leftist either, because you're only motivated in doing this out of personal capitalistic self interest.
Whatever you do, keep repeating to yourself and others the mantra: You do not, and have never intended to, contribute to a thoroughly leftist political campaign to shift public opinion in favour of intentionally lowering the price of housing in this country. If the government doesn't intervene in markets during major economic upheavals, and that results in massive housing price falls, that's a politically irrelevant by-product of the free markets you champion exclusively for reason of your own self interest.
Remember, you do not envy successful property investors!
Was she one of those twins on Full House?
NO IT IS NOT A CRASH, an asset that moves up sharply within a short period of time and then corrects back down is not a crash, so long as the major trend is intact.
Look at the overall trend of silver.
And no i dont have any positions in silver/gold whatever.
I am 100% positively certain that hobo-jo does not envy successful property investors.
He is merely happy to invest in multiple asset classes, including property, at the right time.
At this point in time he feels that there will be better returns in precious metals than in residential property.
At some point in the future he may reverse that decision.
In fact if anyone on this forum deserves to feel envy, it will be towards Sunfish, not residential property.
Sunfish has been harping on about precious metals for a number of years now. Given the entry points of several years ago to now, i would say that those returns will be the stuff of 'envy'.
Sorry but this is beyond absurd! I will quit investing if I am wrong in saying that a 30% drop within a week under any circumstance, for any asset in any given period is not defined as a crash.
I am really flabbergasted that you can take the position that a 30% crash in the price of silver is anything but a crash. To think that this entire insane discussion started when I raised the fact Silver dropped by 30% as an example of when one can be wrong which I thought was indefensible akin to the sun will rise tomorow. Wow did I underestimate people and their obvious delusion.
We can debate how bad a "crash" it was or if we beleive prices will recover but what we cannot debate is the fact a crash occured to do so would be idiotic.
Is this not visually clear enough?
I am sorry for repeating but this is completely insane, void of reality and an utter misunderstanding of what constitutes a crash....
Very few times do I simply disregard the other side totally however on this issue I feel its not a discussion on view or opinion but a misunderstanding of defintion and/or fact i.e. a 30% drop in the value of an asset particularly over just a week is a crash. Sorry but you and hobo-jo are categorically wrong if you state anythig else other than it was a crash. Feel free to argue how bad, if it will recover or tid bits like the price is still up over the year, all this doesnt change the fact a crash in the price occured.
PS:
Under your logic property even if it dropped by 40% today that wouldnt be a crash in your view? because the "MAJOR TREND" is still upward which it is given the median price for australian houses in 1990 was around 150k? - your understanding of crash is beyond laughable.
I am really flabbergasted that you can take the position that a 30% crash in the price of silver is anything but a crash. To think that this entire insane discussion started when I raised the fact Silver dropped by 30% as an example of when one can be wrong which I thought was indefensible akin to the sun will rise tomorow. Wow did I underestimate people and their obvious delusion.
We can debate how bad a "crash" it was or if we beleive prices will recover but what we cannot debate is the fact a crash occured to do so would be idiotic.
Is this not visually clear enough?
I am sorry for repeating but this is completely insane, void of reality and an utter misunderstanding of what constitutes a crash....
Very few times do I simply disregard the other side totally however on this issue I feel its not a discussion on view or opinion but a misunderstanding of defintion and/or fact i.e. a 30% drop in the value of an asset particularly over just a week is a crash. Sorry but you and hobo-jo are categorically wrong if you state anythig else other than it was a crash. Feel free to argue how bad, if it will recover or tid bits like the price is still up over the year, all this doesnt change the fact a crash in the price occured.
PS:
Under your logic property even if it dropped by 40% today that wouldnt be a crash in your view? because the "MAJOR TREND" is still upward which it is given the median price for australian houses in 1990 was around 150k? - your understanding of crash is beyond laughable.
For the sake of clarity, Hobo has stated that he has no desire to own an IP he would however like to buy another PPOR should he deem the price fair.
The silver 'crash' is relative, whether it is a crash is entirely dependent on your entry point. On the whole though I would agree that silver has not 'crashed' relative to Hobo's predictions for 2011.
I will conclude by saying that I believe Hobo has a very thinly veiled agenda to do whatever he can to negatively influence general sentiment towards investment property, I assume so he can trade some serious ounces and purchase a nice PPOR at a discounted rate.
Good on him, but IMHO his argument is diluted by his doomed attempts to harness the impressionable FHB crowd through failed GetUp campaigns (clearly not what the organisation exists for) to further his own agenda and justify his own investment decisions.
InnerWestie I can understand were you are coming from but I am afraid you are still wrong, let me explain.
You mention "The silver 'crash' is relative, whether it is a crash is entirely dependent on your entry point. On the whole though I would agree that silver has not 'crashed' relative to Hobo's predictions for 2011."
Just because the price the day after the "crash" is still higher than say the start of the year this doesnt mean prices havent crashed. Further more just because one may have bought at the start of the year and is still "up" doesnt mean they have avoided a "crash". There will almost always be a point in time where an asset price was lower than the price after a "crash".
The only difference between someone buying at the start of the year and someone buying into silver right at the peak is that the latter lost 30% of their original investment and the former lost 30% of their gains but both endured a "crash" in the price of silver.
You mention "The silver 'crash' is relative, whether it is a crash is entirely dependent on your entry point. On the whole though I would agree that silver has not 'crashed' relative to Hobo's predictions for 2011."
Just because the price the day after the "crash" is still higher than say the start of the year this doesnt mean prices havent crashed. Further more just because one may have bought at the start of the year and is still "up" doesnt mean they have avoided a "crash". There will almost always be a point in time where an asset price was lower than the price after a "crash".
The only difference between someone buying at the start of the year and someone buying into silver right at the peak is that the latter lost 30% of their original investment and the former lost 30% of their gains but both endured a "crash" in the price of silver.
The initial goal will be to purchase an unencumbered property (PPOR). Completely free of non-deductible debt I will then be looking for opportunities to leverage into whatever asset class looks right at the time (including property if the yields make sense from a cash flow point of view). I am not anti-property or anti-property investor.
I think it's a matter of interpretation, silver was predicted to perform strongly over 2011 and overall it has, silver is volatile, it does not have the barriers to entry and the high transaction costs that help property remain relatively stable, naturally there will be rapid peaks and troughs but the underlying 12 month trend, year on year will be the determining factor. In reality, whether Hobo's prediction is correct or not can really only be assessed on 31/12/2011.
If I say property will continue to perform strongly over the next decade, it matters not whether there is a 30% drop in 2015, if property doubles between 2011 and 2021, my prediction was correct.
Well I'm glad somebody can see things clearly, understands the nature of different markets and can easily comprehend a simple sentence
The whole crash/didn't crash argument was pointless as it stemmed from tcocaro trying to squeeze an inference out of my posts that just wasn't there.
