What's this guy up to?

[Ebbie]

Hello everyone,

I put a car for sale on a car trader website and received a suspiscious response from someone who I discovered has sent the same email to everyone else selling a car. Obviously it's some sort of scam but I decided to play along with it and possibly scam the scammer?!

Email #1:

Good day,
I am interested in buying your car so please let me know your last price with the present condition of the car.
Await your mail,
Best regards.
Andrew Moore


Email #2:

Hello,
Thanks for the mail, I am okay with the price of the car and to make the transaction fast and easy there is this a client of mine that reside and he his owing me some huge amount of money and has agreed to pay me everything he owes me after being discuss with him that I will like to purchase your lovely car. So a total check of $6,500 will be send to you because that is the total amount he owes me and after you might have gotten the check you will with faithful deduct your own part which is $2,100 for the car, I don't know if I can trust you by helping me to send my balance through western union money transfer to the information which I am going to give to you it is the part of the money which I am going to pay my shipper who will be coming for the shipment of the car and will get it shipped to my location here in United State and my shipper is on ground here they will get paid in there local office here and the name of the shipping company is OCEANIC PACIFIC LINER and their email address is [email protected] you can contact them because I have informed them of this transaction of purchasing your car so let me know if you are okay with my method of payment and if you will be sending down my balance after you might have deduct your own part,if you are ready let me have your full details so I can forward it to my client and he can quickly address the check.
FULL NAME ON CHECK.
ADDRESS.
PHONE #.
Await your quick response.
Regards.
Andrew Moore


Email #3:

Hello,
Thanks for the mail, I have forward all your information for you to receive the cheque to my associate and he has promised that you will receive the cheque very soon and I will also like to let you know that you will be sending the remaining balance via WESTERN UNION MONEY TRANSFER to the name and address of my personal accountant I will give to you immediately the check gets to you and cleared your bank, as you know that it is part of the money i will be using to pay for the shipment of the car, So please let me know immediately the check gets to you.
I will be waiting to read back from you now, please let me know if you get this message.
Best Regards,
Andrew


Email #4:

Goodday,
How you doing today, I just received a confirmation from my associate that you have received the check, please let me know if you have received it...I am so sorry for getting back to you so late, it was due to my wife illness , she just delivered a baby boy and the dr discovered that she has breast cancer, so i have been with her in the hospital. Please let me know if you have received the check and i will give you the name and address of my accountant where you will be sending the remaining balance.
Await your mail.
Best regards.....
Andrew Moore

.....................................................................

I gave this guy the details of a bank account I don't often use and yesterday received an Attempted Delivery notice in my letter box from Australian Air Express. I wasn't home so they want me to collect the mail from their depot.

Any ideas what this guy is up to?

 

[Monopoly]

SCAM ALERT..SCAM ALERT..SCAM ALERT!!!

I gave this guy the details of a bank account I don't often use and yesterday received an Attempted Delivery notice in my letter box from Australian Air Express. I wasn't home so they want me to collect the mail from their depot.

Any ideas what this guy is up to?

More like, what ARE YOU up to?? What on earth possessed you to give him ANY BANK ACCOUNT details (old or otherwise) This guy may not be the brightest spark, but I'm sure if he really wanted to he could access information about your existing (active) bank accounts from your so-called less often used one(s)!!

If nothing else, that account has your current postal address linked to it which unfortunately opens you up to all sorts of possible identity theft issues!! Did you not take that into consideration??

Notify the bank where you have this account and alert them to this scammer immediately, and put a stop to any further transactions by closing the account down!!! If you don't use the account, keeping it open is a HUGE mistake!!

Well for your sake, I'm hoping at least, this boy genius isn't that sharp, if he is you could find yourself in a messy game you should NEVER have entered into!!!

 

[voigtstr]

Is it some weird attempt at money laundering?

 

[Rolf Schaefer]

It's a new scam, I saw it on TV the other day.

Beware.

 

[voigtstr]

It's a new scam, I saw it on TV the other day.

Beware.

So, how does it work?

 

[BoatBoy]

Surely if he has sent you a cheque and the fund's clear, it's all good for you.

You have his money, his excess and the car still.

Seem's like you hold all the card's at this stage.

BB

 

[our obsession]

Oh dear Ebbie....identity fraud is becoming a huge problem...don't play with these people they don't play nice.

 

[handyandy]

It's a scam as Monopoly has already highlighted in big bold letters.

If you are interested in reading about the various scams then here is a link

http://home.rica.net/alphae/419coal/

These scams take all sort of forms. The one that you are involved in is the same as KathrynD as per this post

http://www.somersoft.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33766

and will involve a bounced cheque/funds or conversely illegal funds.

I couldn't believe that a friend of mine was involved in a scam recently which made him a money launderer.

In his case the guy had people deposit money in his account which he then had to forward less a commission. The guy was in Europe. He entered into this arrangement by replying to a job adv. All turned out OK but you need to question the source of the money in this case.

Cheers

 

[bort]

Notify the bank where you have this account and alert them to this scammer immediately, and put a stop to any further transactions by closing the account down!!! If you don't use the account, keeping it open is a HUGE mistake!!

i was under the impression that just by someone having your bank account details, they can't actually access your funds ... isn't this just part of the gaining trust process by the scammers?

 

[asy]

It's not a new scam. I wrote a post about it in April 2005, HERE

It's a well known scam, where the cheque turns out (some weeks later) to be a forgery. The bank then recovers the funds from YOU.

So, you get a cheque for $6500, you pay out the 'change' of $4400, and give them the vehicle (theoretically, coz they never collect the vehicle). The cheque then turns out to be a forgery (I've been through this with HSBC) and they then recover the $4400 from you.

That's how the scam works.

RUN!

If he REALLY wants the car, tell him to send the cheque to his shipper, who can then pay YOU the "change" when he comes to collect the car.

asy

 

[Tim]

Ebbie,

I am an Information Security specialist in a University and have completed a Masters by Research in Information Security. The link here is cyber crime....a variation in this theme is extended to your situation

I can tell you for a fact that this is an attempt to have you act as a mule for money laundering.

This is serious, serious stuff and I recently attended a conference which included the US Secret Service presenting a well as , FBI etc, cyber crime and phishing scams etc run by the mafia mainly from SE Asia and Eastern Europe is run like a huge multinational business - you don't EVER want these guys to know anything of your identity unless you are happy to be physically tracked and threatened with your life - serious.

Tim

 

[Ebbie]

Thanks for all the replies (and warnings!). I seem to receive a different scam in my email box every week so I've started playing along with some of them for a bit of fun. Some of the responses I get from the scammers are hilarious - there must be some gullible people out there to believe their stories. So far most of the scammers have been asking for money to buy an airfare to Australia and promise to pay me back when they arrive. I hadn't seen one like this latest one with the car where they send the money to you!

It's a well known scam, where the cheque turns out (some weeks later) to be a forgery. The bank then recovers the funds from YOU.

Never thought of that but I had no intention of forwarding money to them. In this case I won't even bother cashing the cheque. I might tell him the car has been sold and see if I can get a return address out of them?

More like, what ARE YOU up to?? What on earth possessed you to give him ANY BANK ACCOUNT details (old or otherwise)

Hi Monopoly, thankfully I haven't been that silly. I was typing in a hurry on my way out the door this morning. When I said bank account details I didn't mean the actual account number or the branch, it was the account name for him to make the cheque out to which was XYZ Pty Ltd (a $2 company). So all he really has is my mailing address, although he can probably work out my name from the email address.

I don't want to get involved in cyber crime or money laundering so I'll have to be a bit more careful which scams I reply to.

Regards, Ebbie.

 

[Monopoly]

i was under the impression that just by someone having your bank account details, they can't actually access your funds

Please tell me you're not serious??!! Who said they can't access your funds, if they get hold of private details such as your name, address etc, they can easily gain access into other personal information and then with the bank account details drain you of your funds!!!

All that the crook has to do is call the bank, tell them they have misplaced or forgotten their password, and provided they know your address and maybe your DOB, and bob's your uncle....the bank will divulge your password or give you...errrrr...THEM temporary access!!! Don't delude yourself into thinking they won't either!!!

Personally, if you think it's safe to randomly give out your bank details, then go for it!!! Anyone who does their banking online (via internet) is suseptible to having their account hacked into and funds drained, or at best, transferred into another bogus account....WITHOUT THE HOLDER EVER GIVING AWAY ANY ACCOUNT INFO!!!

The only people I'd ever give my bank details to would be an employer for my wages to be paid into, or my banker!!!

 

[Monopoly]

Hi Monopoly, thankfully I haven't been that silly. I was typing in a hurry on my way out the door this morning. When I said bank account details I didn't mean the actual account number or the branch, it was the account name for him to make the cheque out to which was XYZ Pty Ltd (a $2 company). So all he really has is my mailing address, although he can probably work out my name from the email address.

I don't want to get involved in cyber crime or money laundering so I'll have to be a bit more careful which scams I reply to.

Regards, Ebbie.

Glad to hear it Ebbie, but I'd be careful with even these details. And I know you wouldn't want to get involved in any these illegal scams, no one does. I was more concerned with the safety of your identity, not your intentions, which I NEVER doubted were anything less than honourable.

 

[Pushka]

I often wonder though, every cheque has the full details of the account - BSB and savings account number, so it would seem to me that our exposure to potential fraud exists with every cheque we write from a personal or business account. Cheques even have your name, or your business name and ABN/ACN printed on the bottom.


I think ASY has hit the nail, and even though I am often tempted to play with these scams, I think they are all trouble!

 

[bythebay]

This thread got me to thinking.

I buy and sell on ebay. When someone buys something off you, they are given your bank account details by ebay to deposit the money for payment. Surely it can't be that hard to set up a fake account, and bid on random items just to get someones details? Postal addresses are often supplied too, for sending money orders/cheques.

Similarly, I purchase from online shops. I am usually sent the bank details for payment in automatically generated emails. Again, people could easily gain information this way.

I am pretty sure, if you want to change your password at a bank, you need to take in 100 points of ID, including one primary. Surely it isn't that easy to take someones identity?

Michelle.

 

[Pablo]

Please tell me you're not serious??!! Who said they can't access your funds, if they get hold of private details such as your name, address etc, they can easily gain access into other personal information and then with the bank account details drain you of your funds!!!

All that the crook has to do is call the bank, tell them they have misplaced or forgotten their password, and provided they know your address and maybe your DOB, and bob's your uncle....the bank will divulge your password or give you...errrrr...THEM temporary access!!! Don't delude yourself into thinking they won't either!!!

Personally, if you think it's safe to randomly give out your bank details, then go for it!!! Anyone who does their banking online (via internet) is suseptible to having their account hacked into and funds drained, or at best, transferred into another bogus account....WITHOUT THE HOLDER EVER GIVING AWAY ANY ACCOUNT INFO!!!

The only people I'd ever give my bank details to would be an employer for my wages to be paid into, or my banker!!!

How does this go with tenants then?

I have my tenants pay by electronic funds transfer into a separate rental account but I am assuming if they managed to steal my identity then they would have access to all my accounts and LOC's with that bank. Would it be better to set up a rental account with a separate bank so it is separated from my other accounts and loans?

Pablo.

 

[Monopoly]

Similarly, I purchase from online shops. I am usually sent the bank details for payment in automatically generated emails. Again, people could easily gain information this way.

If you are purchasing from them, why would YOU be supplying them with your bank details, surely you'd be sending credit card details for payment of the goods??!!

I am pretty sure, if you want to change your password at a bank, you need to take in 100 points of ID, including one primary. Surely it isn't that easy to take someones identity?

100 points for ID change??!! Maybe the odd bank who has known you for years perhaps, but having been married to a banker I can tell you, if they had to do this EVERYTIME a customer lost or forgot their password, they'd have no time for any other work!!! Banks only care about you proving who you are when you open an account; it starts and stops there. If the account exists, and you can't access it, they expect YOU to let them know immediately. It is your responsiblity to keep a vigilant eye on your security. If you suspect foul-play, they will endeavour to investigate it (of course, they don't want to lose your business) but believe me, they WON'T JUMP HOOPS (unless they suspect they may be at fault) and certainly not with this sort of exercise!!

IDENTITY THEFT CAN (AND DOES) OCCUR VIA VARIOUS MEANS OF YOUR PERSONAL INFORMATION BEING EXTRACTED BY THE FRAUDULENT PARTIES!!

Mail stolen from you letterbox (ever had a bill not arrive?)

Your details sold to companies (ie. telemarketers) by all sorts of people who legimately have access to it.

Details obtained through questionnaires/surveys (ever answered a few questions to someone standing outside a supermarket/train station/department store with a clipboard?)

Information from competition entry forms (now who hasn't filled in one of these???)

and (sadly) the list goes on......

At the end of the day, you CAN'T PREVENT IT from happening if the crook is determined to target you, but you CAN MINIMISE THE RISK BY BEING VERY VERY SELECTIVE to whom you give your details and why!!!

 

[Monopoly]

How does this go with tenants then?

I have my tenants pay by electronic funds transfer into a separate rental account but I am assuming if they managed to steal my identity then they would have access to all my accounts and LOC's with that bank. Would it be better to set up a rental account with a separate bank so it is separated from my other accounts and loans?

Pablo.

Not really, because (as with most details) financial data is all centrally stored, and can be accessed by a multitude of organisation for various reasons, ie. creditors, bankers, ATO, Centrelink etc.

If possible try to:

1. Ensure that the account you have given your details for, has INTER-ACCOUNT TRANSFER ACCESS ONLY that is funds can only be transferred from one of your accounts to another. Some banks will call it different things, but basically, it means funds can only be transferred between your own accounts and not into any foreign one. The problem with this, is if YOU have to pay someone who has given you their bank details, you will not be able to do this without contacting the bank and manually authorising it to occur. And some banks will charge you for the priviledge!!!

2. Keep the number of people you give your account details to, to a minimum (ie. employers, tax agents, accountants, and yes in your case, a paying tenant).

If you're really concerned, collect the rent in person OR use a reputable PM (but even the latter, is no sure-fire fix).

As I said before, you cannot reduce the risk enough to stop the determined crook who is hell bent on taking your identity, but you can hinder their efforts my making sure your money is not so easily accessible!!

BE SELECTIVE TO WHOM YOU GIVE YOUR DETAILS and
BE VIGILANT IN CHECKING YOUR BANK STATEMENTS THOROUGHLY AND FREQUENTLY!!

That's about the best WE can all hope to do.

 

[Pushka]

This thread got me to thinking.

I buy and sell on ebay. When someone buys something off you, they are given your bank account details by ebay to deposit the money for payment. Surely it can't be that hard to set up a fake account, and bid on random items just to get someones details? Postal addresses are often supplied too, for sending money orders/cheques.

Yes, that gives a third party access to your Bank account details the same as a cheque does. The NAB Bank for instance, never uses the Account name for Bank transfers, just the BSB and account number details.

I guess as far as rental payments go, if people pay by direct deposit then it is better to set up an account that is not linked to your other accounts and is only used for rental payments. But that would be very inconvenient. Then again, identity theft would be much worse!