Where to Buy ? Sydney - Brisbane

[see_change]

We're looking at two more properties at the moment . Grand total around 1 mill.

Going into super fund . Not looking for land banking , splitters etc . Not looking for " Cash flow specials " in cheapie areas . Just good properties in nice areas. Not 4 - 5 in logan for same price .
Something that would benefit from a refurb later on would be ok . Would be generally avoiding new places.

Because it's going in Super fund , this will be a long term buy and hold , so from that perspective , timing isn't as critical .

We already have a good exposure to the Sydney market ( two houses , 4 units ) , but can buy one more without getting to the land Tax threshold , but the market is silly at the moment . Latest one we're interested in has 16 contracts out after the first open and the price ( offers over sub 500) already has an offer 55 K over the " offers over " price .. We are still interested in it as it has a twist but we'll see what happens . Bottom line , for a " nice " property , the chances of getting a really " good buy " are small.

We are planning on buying at least one in Brisbane , but the option is to buy two up there. From what I can see Brisbane isn't any where near as hot and the chances of picking up a " good buy " are better .

Any thoughts on where in Brisbane would you look ?

Cliff

 

[Tim86]

I live in Brisbane, but I only really pay attention to the places where you can get a bargain, do a reno, and get cash flow positive rent. I'm not too familiar with the whole buy something with no potential for immediate captical growth or cash flow positive return and hold.

Maybe close to the city like Woolloongabba or something like that. You should be able to spend $600 000 there for something nice and hold that for a while and have consistent rent and growth. It's next to major hospitals, uni's, stadium, etc... and 3k's from the city.

 

[Richard Feynman]

I live in Sydney (PPOR). Heavily considering Bris for first IP (in part, due to budget and spreading assets interstate). Within 10km of CBD.

No expect, but it looks like Brisbane is on the way up and a very good bet for a longterm buy and hold strategy.

 

[Darlogus]

Hi see_change
My first post and only went on forum for the first time last night to check out tips on smsf investing which I am going to use to buy my next property.
I live on North side of the city and own several properties in Brisbane and really should invest in another state as I am paying land tax, which is another advantage of using smsf as a vehicle.
I would also like to say upfront that I do work in the industry although in saying that I was an investor for 12 years before starting to work in real estate last year.
I purchased my last investment this year which is about 10k from the city and is typical for the suburb as a post war 3 beder. I can't talk for the whole of Brisbane as I try to focus on particular areas but a am sure north or south would be pretty much the same story. By your Logan comment I would say you've been watching Margaret Lomas as she is very keen on that area. I do own a couple of properties on the Norths equivalent to Logan in Caboolture and although I have done very well with them over the last 10 years I would not buy there again for some time yet.
What I can say is the Northside market within 15km of city has turned a corner and started to have some growth for the first time in a few years.

 

[see_change]

Hi see_change
My first post and only went on forum for the first time last night to check out tips on smsf investing which I am going to use to buy my next property.
I live on North side of the city and own several properties in Brisbane and really should invest in another state as I am paying land tax, which is another advantage of using smsf as a vehicle.
I would also like to say upfront that I do work in the industry although in saying that I was an investor for 12 years before starting to work in real estate last year.
I purchased my last investment this year which is about 10k from the city and is typical for the suburb as a post war 3 beder. I can't talk for the whole of Brisbane as I try to focus on particular areas but a am sure north or south would be pretty much the same story. By your Logan comment I would say you've been watching Margaret Lomas as she is very keen on that area. I do own a couple of properties on the Norths equivalent to Logan in Caboolture and although I have done very well with them over the last 10 years I would not buy there again for some time yet.
What I can say is the Northside market within 15km of city has turned a corner and started to have some growth for the first time in a few years.

Hi Darlogus

Are you aware that if you own IP's in a trust in Q'land you have a separate land tax threshold for each trust ? We bought 15 IP's in Q'land in early 2000's and had no land Tax.

This doesn't apply in NSW . Not sure what the situation is in Vic . In Tassie every one pays small amount of land tax . Our block of four units there has a land tax of around $1000.

We bought in Logan , because I worked in Mt Druitt in Sydney . That area boomed and people were selling up and moving to Logan ,Ipswich or caboulture because they were " much nicer " ie Mt Druitt with Palm Trees . Had a look and decided Logan was the most Central, so bought there . At that stage Sydney and Central Brisbane had already gone up Significantly. Many other members also bought there .

What sort of gains are you seeing in the north at this stage . Is it getting back to previous peak prices yet ? Is there plenty of Stock ? Are things moving Quickly ?
Many Motivated Vendors ? still seeing an occasional add mentioning this .

Would appreciate your thoughts .

Cliff

 

[devank]

Hello see_change,
I had a look at your profile. It looks like you took a break for a while and came out with full force now. Is it because of personal reasons or you see opportunity now?

 

[see_change]

Hello see_change,
I had a look at your profile. It looks like you took a break for a while and came out with full force now. Is it because of personal reasons or you see opportunity now?

I see the opportunity now. For me investing is a means , not the end And not an alternative career path , which it becomes for some . after the initial phase of enthusiasm about something new , exciting and successfull , the ongoing routine of property is actually boring , So I don't want to spend all my time looking for bargains . I'm happy to spend my time doing what I want to , and when I see the opportunity , come in and buy . Hence my by line .

I was lucky to find this place back in 2001 when I was a IP newbie and I received lots of advice , most good but on occasions deliberately misleading ....

Basically , investing in property changed our lives around . All our initial IP's were in cheap areas , because at that stage the nice areas had gone up .

IP's in cheap areas are a lot more high maintainence in terms of monitoring , repairs etc. we bought better places in rocky than in Logan and had no such issues .

We've been gradually acquiring nice properties in sydney over the last five years when we saw really good buys ( mosman , manly , turramurra ). I expected these to go up before the cheap areas in sydney . They have gone up , but the western suburbs seem to be leading the boom to a degree ( certainly the really hyped up phase ) . I think the ease of information spread over the net is significantly responsible for this , and thinking this through , I'm thinking Brisbane may move earlier than I expected.

Personally I'd prefer to be spending my spare time songwriting , but I recognise there is an opportunity over the next year or so to set up a nice, well funded retirement , so I'm shifting my priorities at the moment. We have properties which we can improve in terms or rental , but at the moment I'm happy to acquire , until my broker says they won't lend any more .

I'm fairly analytic in my approach , but after going through a phase of overanalysing , I think I can find out all the information I need on the year trend graph on the realestate.com.au suburb profile chart and with a few phone calls to local agents . I was not as bad as china , but not far off , but the reality is its not that complicated.

Cliff

 

[Darlogus]

Hi Cliff

I am only just starting to learn about the benefits of trusts and to be honest I had never heard that you could do that in Qld. I have read dozens of property investing books and watch the your money your call and property empire on Fox business every week and I have never heard any of the callers or presenters cover this. I guess that may be because they are in VIC & NSW and are maybe not fully aware of Qld rules. In fact Margaret Lomas frequently discusses on her show just to by in your own name, and some of my first book from Jan Somers seemed to be in your own names. I need to get more educated in this area, clearly.

With your question on gains I have seen one article last week stating 5.4% across the board but I personally think with houses we are closer to 8% since November 2012. This is based on an area I work in every day which is in the 6 to 12km from the city, and 2 properties I own in this area in Albany Creek and Chermside. Discounting has reduced considerably as buyers are more aware of missing out.

We are back to a similar price as pre GFC as the market was very hot. I remember not being able to get offers in quick enough to buy in 2007 when I purchased the Albany Creek property. I got lucky with this one as it was not advertised online and no for sale sign, so no competition. I purchased at $360k and worth about $420k now. Chermside was $390k in January and around $430k now giving $395 and $365pw rent. I have just had my first rent rise in 5 years, which is also confirming good signs with very low vacancy rates.

Stock of house and land is very low with lots of first home buyers and investors and now with the smsf buyers also adding to the mix. Even developers are coming back to the market, which was not the case last year. Houses at market value are selling very quickly but unit market is still flat, with lots of stock.

There are always motivated vendors coming to the market, a lot of this is the sales pitch by agents to get attention, so you do have to find the desperate vendors. even with this though there are many buyers so bargains are few and far between and you have to be very quick.

Gus

 

[skater]

You have lots of options for buying in Brissy, but not the same options for buying in Sydney.

 

[willair]

We're looking at two more properties at the moment . Grand total around 1 mill.

Going into super fund . Not looking for land banking , splitters etc . Not looking for " Cash flow specials " in cheapie areas . Just good properties in nice areas. Not 4 - 5 in logan for same price .
Something that would benefit from a refurb later on would be ok . Would be generally avoiding new places.

Because it's going in Super fund , this will be a long term buy and hold , so from that perspective , timing isn't as critical .

We already have a good exposure to the Sydney market ( two houses , 4 units ) , but can buy one more without getting to the land Tax threshold , but the market is silly at the moment . Latest one we're interested in has 16 contracts out after the first open and the price ( offers over sub 500) already has an offer 55 K over the " offers over " price .. We are still interested in it as it has a twist but we'll see what happens . Bottom line , for a " nice " property , the chances of getting a really " good buy " are small.



We are planning on buying at least one in Brisbane , but the option is to buy two up there. From what I can see Brisbane isn't any where near as hot and the chances of picking up a " good buy " are better .

Any thoughts on where in Brisbane would you look ?

Cliff

Inner South,Rocklea into West End depends on what you want,everyone has been onto splitters double entry 2 street blocks building multi story walk-ups,all inner Brisbane will go that way,but if I was going to buy in Brisbane right now it would be in the river side of Annerley walking distance too QU,several large qld;s still on that small area,just stay away from the Annerley Rd..imho..


or if you were to go for a drive for an hour and a quarter,,imho..http://www.pt.qld.gov.au/real-estate/properties/105-Mount-Lindsay-Highway-Rathdowney.html

 

[see_change]

You have lots of options for buying in Brissy, but not the same options for buying in Sydney.

We have one area in sydney we are watching closely , but there's hardly anything on the market , and the ones that do come on are fought over .

Talking to agents, they say there is a lot coming on in 4-6 weeks , post election / spring , so we are still watching , but at this stage I'm wanting a plan B if we don't find the right property .

Cliff

 

[see_change]

Inner South,Rocklea into West End depends on what you want,everyone has been onto splitters double entry 2 street blocks building multi story walk-ups,all inner Brisbane will go that way,but if I was going to buy in Brisbane right now it would be in the river side of Annerley walking distance too QU,several large qld;s still on that small area,just stay away from the Annerley Rd..imho..


or if you were to go for a drive for an hour and a quarter,,imho..http://www.pt.qld.gov.au/real-estate/properties/105-Mount-Lindsay-Highway-Rathdowney.html

Thanks for that Willair . Any thoughts on woody point -- Scarborough ?

Cliff

 

[willair]

Thanks for that Willair . Any thoughts on woody point -- Scarborough ?

Cliff

Sorry Cliff,i don.t know woody point at all ,,we went down to see the Bee Gees Way a few weeks ago and the entire area has come a long way from years ago beach but no surf,,imho..

 

[skater]

We have one area in sydney we are watching closely , but there's hardly anything on the market , and the ones that do come on are fought over .

Talking to agents, they say there is a lot coming on in 4-6 weeks , post election / spring , so we are still watching , but at this stage I'm wanting a plan B if we don't find the right property .

Cliff

You misunderstand me. I meant Poll Options

* I live in Sydney, will buy in Sydney
* I live in Sydney, will buy in Brisbane

 

[see_change]

Ahh , sorry skater

I suppose my real motive was to find out about what the forum feels is happening in Brisbane ...

I know what's happening in Sydney

Cliff

 

[skater]

Ahh , sorry skater

I suppose my real motive was to find out about what the forum feels is happening in Brisbane ...

I know what's happening in Sydney

Cliff

LOL! I thought your motive was to find out WHERE people were buying. Sydney or Brisbane.

 

[see_change]

LOL! I thought your motive was to find out WHERE people were buying. Sydney or Brisbane.

Same thing

Cliff

 

[MTR]

I live in Perth and have properties in both markets, however at this point in time I favour Sydney because I think there is a great chance of upswing and bigger $, another prediction of course

 

[JDP1]

We're looking at two more properties at the moment . Grand total around 1 mill.

Going into super fund . Not looking for land banking , splitters etc . Not looking for " Cash flow specials " in cheapie areas . Just good properties in nice areas. Not 4 - 5 in logan for same price .
Something that would benefit from a refurb later on would be ok . Would be generally avoiding new places.

Because it's going in Super fund , this will be a long term buy and hold , so from that perspective , timing isn't as critical .

We already have a good exposure to the Sydney market ( two houses , 4 units ) , but can buy one more without getting to the land Tax threshold , but the market is silly at the moment . Latest one we're interested in has 16 contracts out after the first open and the price ( offers over sub 500) already has an offer 55 K over the " offers over " price .. We are still interested in it as it has a twist but we'll see what happens . Bottom line , for a " nice " property , the chances of getting a really " good buy " are small.

We are planning on buying at least one in Brisbane , but the option is to buy two up there. From what I can see Brisbane isn't any where near as hot and the chances of picking up a " good buy " are better .

Any thoughts on where in Brisbane would you look ?

Cliff

I would agree with your rationale. As you are already fairly heavilly exposed to sydney, I would seek brisbane for the following reasons:
1. Diversification- Bris and syd are 2 different markets, and you already have quite a few in sydney
2. Sydney is further up the growth cycle than brisbane, so more bang for the buck in brisbane
3. Can get more in brisbane [ more for the same money]
4. Brisbane has higher population growth rates than sydney and this looks like it will continue.

...as always it all comes down to the tried and true realestate characteristics- location, potential, price, etc etc etc....
In brisbane, I would assume that you would value CG more than anything else as it is going in your superannuation fund.
If so, then id look at either a townhouse or a house. Vacant land is a bit risky [ illiquid except in hot markets], so id stay away from that. Id buy next to blue chip suburbs [ but not blue chip as they are already expensive], 5-10 km max from CBD, and with some [ does not have to be lots] of land. Id also look for fairly well built ones you wont do reno/maintennance to a large degree. Buy n hold stuff thats easy to get tenants.
You askede for suburbs:
My picks in brisbane [in no order]: Kedron [townhouse], carina/carina heights [ townhouse], greenslopes [townhouse], 8 mile plains [ townhouse], newstead [ apartment ], the gap [ house], carindale [ house], kangaroo Point [apartment], camp hill [ townhouse]

 

[see_change]

Already bought .

Our original plan was for two but we've ended up with four as we found a niche price that hadn't seemed to have moved much .

One was a OTP unit in the Newstead / Teneriffe area . Then we bought a town house in Manly about 200 mtrs from the centre , and two in wynnum . A unit on the water front and a town house about 100 mts back from the waterfront .

Being sydney based , we're used to a water based focus ( i know brisbane is different ) . We looked at the central brisbane area but the market seemed fairly hot so we looked further out , initially manly - wynnum but also the sandgate - Brighton area . By coincidence the day I started looking at these was a really quiet day at work and we had a couple of people visiting from head office , both who grew up on the bay in Brisbane ......their conclusion was that it was the place to live in Brisbane . One had a friend who had just bought in sandgate and they were thinking of buying there as well . While this doesn't ignore the obvious preference for many to live near the centre of Brisbane , it suggested there are people in brisbane who want to live near the bay and some people it was an aspirational destination . I'd prefer buying there to Logan which is not ......

My wife spent a day looking at sandgate Brighton and I joined her on the next day and we looked at properties in manly wynnum . While she liked Brighton she preferred Manly wynnum . Manly ( with the possible exception of shorncliffe ) seems to recognised as the best suburb on the bay . It has an express train to the city , many cafe's as well as the biggest marina in the Southern Hemisphere and a nice walk along the waterfront. It doesn't have the sandy beaches but its a nice part of the world.

From what we could see of prices in the area , they had peaked in 2009 and had dropped back around 10% since then . Probably a year ago would have been a better time to buy , but there seemed to be a bit of a split decision amongst the agents as to whether the market was moving strongly or was still a buyers market. The market had mover up in the last year , but wasn't back to the 2009 peak . As often out of area agents seemed to be less clued up to what was going on there , and two of the properties we bought were from out of area agents.

Probably around half of the properties we were looking at prior to going up where under contract by the time we got there , so that was an indicator the market was starting to move.

We had one frustrating situation when we rang up to confirm an appointment and were told it was under offer ... A week later there was no change to its inline status so I rang up to query what was going on . The under offer was for a tenancy , not for the sale .... That made the subsequent negotiation easier as the agent felt guilty ... . Made an offer subject to inspection and ended up buying it.

The one we bought from a local agent , had an agent who didn't think the market was moving and openly talked to us about conditioning the vendor ....

While cheaper houses seemed to strongly sought after , there didn't seem to be as much completion for units and town houses . The houses that were available in the lower price range all had obvious negatives , eg close to railway or on a busier road or were small places on good blocks. We bought the two town houses in our superfund and the waterfront unit in a trust . We think this is one that people might fight over when the market is hot . Depending on what we buy over the next years we may end up selling this to pay down other properties . The block is predominantly OO with only two held as investments .

Rental returns around 5 % which I think is a good return for nice properties in a nice area.

Might sit back and watch for a while to make sure that the current strength continues before we make our next buys .

Cliff