Will the WA/Perth Housing Market Bubble Burst?

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20850503-643,00.html

BHP has just announced a serious (more than 100% and more than $1bn) blowout in costs at the Ravensthorpe mine. I've read how mining and oil companies do feasibility studies based on commodities prices much lower than the current market.

However, if costs are blowing out to this extent, how will this affect profits? How much of the current BHP share price is based on the extraordinary profits earned in the last few years, and is this sustainable in the face of continued cost increases?

BHP's statement that nickel prices being higher than they were when the project was first approved (implying increased profits) conveniently side-steps the fact that the cost blowout will decrease profits. BHP is likely to be still profitable, but will it be at the same levels as shareholders expect?

I would imagine these cost blowouts (from equipment and staff costs) would in fact pump the Perth property market higher as money flows to staff and local businesses. The question is, is this sustainable and what happens to spot prices when every other mining company's new mine comes on-line?
Alex


They're experts at it !!

The HBI project in Pt Hedland costed at 1.0 billion, blew out by 1.0 billion, and then was written off on the books to zero the following year.

It was then mothballed after an explosion and a 12 month feasibility conducted at a cost of untold millions, then shutdown permanently with a cost of untold millions to dismantle the site and take it back to its natural state.

Share price seems to be holding up......

BHP are still spending staggering amounts on upgrading facilities to increase production in the area.....just not in Hot Briquette Iron.

And by the way, they require 260 new houses for additional employees.

And the same goes for FMG.

KEvin
 
NEWS.COM.AU STORY

West's housing boom finally slowing downBy Anthony Klan and Turi Condon
November 25, 2006 12:00am
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PERTH house price growth has finally slowed as investors flood the market with listings, bringing to a close the biggest property boom in the nation's history.

Median prices in the West Australian capital are now unlikely to overtake Sydney by the end of the year, as one researcher had forecast.

House price growth in Perth eased to 6 per cent in the three months to September, down from 11 per cent in the three months to June, according to the Real Estate Institute of Western Australia.

Listings surged by 20 per cent in the same period, caused largely by investors seeking to crystallise massive gains made during the boom.

The REIWA said sales volumes were also falling - down 25 per cent in recent months.

"We've certainly seen a reduction in price growth in September and our data even since then would indicate the market is slowing further and showing signs of plateauing," REIWA research director Stewart Darby said.

There are 10,600 houses for sale in Perth, up substantially on the 8800 for sale at the end of September and more than 2 1/2 times as many as April's all-time recorded low of 4000 offerings.

The slowdown in Perth's apartment market was more pronounced than for houses, with price growth slowing to 3per cent in the September quarter, down from 14 per cent in the three months to June, according to REIWA.

First-home buyers continued to withdraw from the market in the quarter, considered a "lead indicator" for declining demand.

Earlier this month, Australian Property Monitors said Perth's median house prices could outstrip those in Sydney in the December quarter if they continued to grow at a record pace.

APM figures differ markedly from the REIWA's.

APM, which uses a different methodology, found Perth house prices rose 5 per cent in the September quarter against the REIWA assessment of a 5 per cent slump.

But APM director Michael McNamara also believes the market has peaked and expects a flat December quarter for the city.

"Perth's median price is 5.5 per cent below that of Sydney and if price growth is negligible, then Perth is unlikely to overtake Sydney by the end of the year," Mr McNamara said.

"Auction clearance rates have been significantly softer across October and November -- at around 50 per cent -- down from around 60 per cent in prior months." He said the Perth market was now expected to stabilise for "several years".

According to REIWA, Perth house prices had rocketed 39 per cent in the year to September and the median house price in the city was $430,000.
 
after reading that article I feel like I have been through a washing machine - lots of ups and downs and washing around. there seems to be an expert in every corner of the room ATM
 
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20850503-643,00.html

BHP has just announced a serious (more than 100% and more than $1bn) blowout in costs at the Ravensthorpe mine. I've read how mining and oil companies do feasibility studies based on commodities prices much lower than the current market.

However, if costs are blowing out to this extent, how will this affect profits? How much of the current BHP share price is based on the extraordinary profits earned in the last few years, and is this sustainable in the face of continued cost increases?

Alex

Hmmm. Is this bad news or good news?

The cost blowouts are due to lack of labour and equipment. [Like no dump truck tires] Plus increased energy costs due to the resource boom itself. It explains why it will be many many years for the increased supply to come into being.

BHP's last production report was pretty bad as far as production goes, but it will be the same through the industry. I bet secretly they aren't too worried.

Yep, it is stronger for longer.

See ya's.
 
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20850503-643,00.html

BHP has just announced a serious (more than 100% and more than $1bn) blowout in costs at the Ravensthorpe mine.

No - what's happened is exactly what happens every single time that a major project goes through it's cycle.

The ever optimistic corporate planners / schedulers / engineers and cost estimaters completely suck up to upper management and pitch the project at ridiculously low cost estimates and tight time frames.....just to get the project off the line. Upper management gives them a small pat on the back and everyone is happy for a while.

Then reality sets in, real costs are incurred, and proper and real time imposts are incurred. People like truck drivers, construction workers and other labour providers are not told / don't want to know and don't care about some sycophantic corporate climber who has promised the world to upper management.....

If something was going to always realistically cost 2 billion, and some highly qualified ambitious underling has convinced upper management it will only cost 1 billion, they then approve it's go-ahead, and then it costs 2 billion - has there really been a 1 billion dollar cost blowout ???....or was the original cost estimate woefully understated and everyone was far too scared to stand up to upper management and tell them to get a grip, and what they are being fed and asked to approve is a complete farce ??? Of course, the upper management usually make the workers go through 3 or 4 separate full blown cost reviews to squeeze the final number right down....with the full expectation that it'll float back right up to what it should have been.....but by then the project is underway and there's no turning back so what the hell.

Having been through this convulted process a few times, I can assure you the latter is far more likely. I'm not proud to admit that I have sat there silently knowing that what was being proposed to my boss' boss' boss' boss was a load of garbage, but then, if I had a said something my boss would have yelled at me, my boss' boss would have throttled me and my boss' boss' boss probably would have sacked me.....and where's the mileage in that.

So I took the option that 99.9999% of other workers take. We simply sit down, shut up and let the whole sorry saga wash over, and keep our jobs. The inevitable "cost blowout" story comes much later, and as usual, most of the people that proposed and made the decisions have moved on / been promoted / washed their hands of it.

That's just how the corporate world works unfortunately....it's pretty slimey....and not how you envision it to be.
 
WA Market is still bubbling along at the moment according to REIWA (who have a vested interest in saying this ;) )

The Capital Growth Rates of Land here have been nothing short of amazing, I believe that there is a new development just secured in Mandurah as well which looks like a "primo" estate.

IMHO REIWA is a great research site compared to some of the other states sites..

Link

September quarter figures released

Saturday 2nd DECEMBER 2006

The Real Estate Institute of Western Australia today released its official figures for the September quarter.

The REIWA data shows that despite a slow down in sales volumes along with an increase in listings and in interest rates, strong prices growth occurred across the board.

REIWA President Rob Druitt said that the return to 'normal' market conditions that commenced in the June quarter had flowed through to the September quarter.

"Prices have generally moderated to just over 6 per cent growth in the quarter, however, some regional centres such as Kalgoorlie and Geraldton experienced renewed double digit growth," Mr Druitt said.

Metro houses
According to REIWA, the preliminary median house price for Perth is now $430,000, a jump of around 39 per cent over the last year, or up by $25,000 on the June quarter.

REIWA expects this figure to grow to around $440,000 as further settlements occur.

"While in the June quarter the prices growth was driven by the top and bottom end of the market, this time it's being felt in those middle ring local government areas, such as Stirling, Bayswater, Bassendean, Belmont, Canning and Fremantle," Mr Druitt said.

Metro land

However, Mr Druitt said the most dramatic rise in prices had been in blocks of residential land in the metropolitan area.

"There has been a real explosion in land prices, resulting in a jump of 77 per cent in the year to September, bringing the median price to $265,000.

"That's an increase of $50,000 on the June quarter which is being caused by a huge demand for land and constraints around land release," Mr Druitt said.

The majority of this price pressure has occurred in the new outer areas in excess of 20kms from the CBD where the annual price growth was 84 per cent.

Mr Druitt warned that the big jump in land prices could cause many prospective home builders to look at other options.

"According the Australian Bureau of Statistics, the cost of building a project home grew by almost 16 per cent over the year, and this coupled with a huge increase in land prices in Perth could force many people back into the established housing market or into renting.

"If this is the case, then we could see a new burst of prices growth in established homes in the New Year, as well as some additional pressure on median rents," Mr Druitt said.

Metro units

REIWA figures show that the price of units in Perth grew at a modest rate of 3 per cent for the quarter, down from an exceptional growth rate of 14 per cent in the June quarter, bringing the median price to $335,000.

"This represents very strong growth of 33.5 per cent since the September quarter 2005 apparently driven by affordability pressures.

"This quarter saw most growth occurring in the outer, more affordable areas and the lower quartile of this market has grown by 46 per cent over the last year," Mr Druitt said.

Rentals

Perth's vacancy rate for rental properties has eased a little, lifting to around 2.1 per cent for the quarter, a rise of 2 percentage points from the June quarter. However, median rents continue to climb on the back of population pressures and affordability constraints.

"Rents have basically lifted $10 across the board from the last quarter, bringing the new median rental for a metropolitan unit to $240 per week for units and apartments and $260 per week for houses. This represents an increase of almost 20 per cent over the year.

"It's worth noting however, that the gross rental yield (the gap between the cost of an investment property and the rent it can return), has widened further due to the even greater increases in property prices. This in turn could see some investors withdraw from the market or place further pressure on rents," Mr Druitt said.

Houses sold / Listings / Selling days

In the September quarter 12,150 homes and 2,550 units sold throughout WA, while at the end of the quarter there were 8,829 dwellings for sale.

"Supply has further increased since then and currently stands at around 11,000 homes on the market. This is especially good for the first home buyers who up until now have been competing with eager investors. Thankfully people now have much more to look at and more time to look around in a more relaxed market," Mr Druitt said.

Selling days have stretched out a little, lifting by one day to around 32 days currently, between listing a property and having it sold.

Regional market

Overall, regional WA house price growth slowed to 3.2 per cent in the September quarter after an 8.6 per rise in the June quarter. REIWA's preliminary regional WA median has increased from a revised $315,000 in the June quarter to $325,000 in September.

"Regional WA generally recorded a slowing growth trend, although some places such as the combined Northam Shires (31%), Geraldton (15%), Kalgoorlie (14%), and Broome (11%), all enjoyed double digit growth," Mr Druitt said.

"Greater Bunbury and Busselton also experienced a rebound of 7 per cent although it appears that the adjoining shire of Augusta/Margaret River recorded no growth in the September quarter.

"The Pilbara mining boom has seen the median house price in Karratha grow even further, jumping by 8 per cent in the September quarter to $474,000, equal to Augusta/Margaret River and now second to Broome on $545,000.

"Land prices in regional WA grew by just under 3 per cent, with the median price now $185,000, up by 42 per cent on the September quarter 2005. Sales volumes are down generally, although a surge of 30 per cent was experienced in Geraldton.

"This is in contrast to the significant fall of around 50 per cent in land sales volumes for Bunbury and Mandurah," Mr Druitt said.

Summary

"Overall, it's still the case that prices growth is continuing throughout WA, although the market is much more relaxed and listings have grown significantly. I think many buyers and sellers are just pausing for a while, waiting to see what might happen over the Christmas and New Year period before committing either way.

"But the bottom line is that our growing population, strong economy, good wages, tight land supply and ongoing demand for housing will continue to place pressure on the housing sector and the rental market into the future," Mr Druitt said
 
CSIRO Report: Gas emmission cuts will hurt

What timeframe are we talking here?...

CSIRO Report: Gas emmission cuts will hurt

CSIRO said:
AUSTRALIA'S farm sector and multibillion-dollar metals processing industry risk decimation if deep cuts in domestic greenhouse gas emissions are put in place by 2050.
CSIRO said:
The modelling forecasts cuts in greenhouse emissions up to 50 per cent lower than 1990 will result in reductions to domestic output in metals processing of up to 74 per cent and farm output of 44 per cent by 2050.
CSIRO said:
While not a formal policy document, the CSIRO report singles out agriculture, aluminium, iron and steel industries as the most affected by responding to climate change, and flags the risk to Australia's balance of trade.
Depends how quickly they implement Carbon Trading, and precisely how they do so, but resoruce dependent economies might be in for a shake up.

Just adding to the debate. Nothing lasts forever...

Cheers,
Michael.
 
Regarding Ravensthorpe,

Folks, this is a nickel laterite mine we are talking about here, not a "simple to process" nickel sulphide operation. The difference in processing complexity is huge. In essence, what they are building is another Murrin Murrin. Seriously complicated and involved. I'm not surprised by the blow out at all.

Don't assume a blowout like this is typical of all commodities. Nickel laterite in particular is cheap and easy to mine, with large depsoits at shallow depth, but processing it is another story altogether. Once its up and running though with all the bugs ironed out it'll be an ablsolute cash cow...thats why they're building it.... its a cash cow.... wouldn't you be happy to chuck in a bunch of extra money to get back a fat cow that churned out cash?
 
Lots of Doom and Gloom on the front page of today's West Australian

http://thewest.com.au/default.aspx?MenuID=145&ContentID=15770

As an aside, to Cabo Wabo's post, I don't know if I'd call pressure leaching seriously complicated. It's actually pretty easy. It's the "Bigger Hammer" approach to leaching nickel. Lots of heat, acid and pressure tend to make pretty much anything dissolve.

The back end for laterites leaching and sulphide leaching is pretty much the same, and is tried and tested (though still pretty tricky)

The real challenge is with materials of construction around the leaching circuit, and the steam flashing stages coming out of the autoclave, though I'm sure BHPB will learn form the mistakes of those that went before it.

Murrin, Cawse and Bulong did the hard work for these problems and learnt the hard way, not to cut corners.
 
"The Federal Treasurer said that after rising 46 per cent in the past year, house prices were certain to drop when the resources boom faltered."

I don't think you need an economics degree to figure that one out... what we would like to know is... when will the resurces boom falter?? 1 month,1 yr, 5 years, 10 years?? in 10 years properties could have doubled or tripled so a price drop will be inconsequential.
 
Didn't he state in the Paper a few weeks back that the Resource Boom was over as well..??

One day in the future he can turn around and say "see..I told you back in December 2006 this would happen" .;)
 
As an aside, to Cabo Wabo's post, I don't know if I'd call pressure leaching seriously complicated. It's actually pretty easy. QUOTE]

Call it what u will, but still looks pretty complicated to me.

Having worked at Murrin for years, and having sat through countless meetings hearing countless renditions from the guys in the mill on what part of the mill had melted or vapourised the day before... well i guess it's kind of left a few impressions on me..... and 'easy' wasn't one of them.

My mill-rat bretheren across the carpark seemed a lil stressed to me.

But i guess as u say, all the hard work's been done already, so maybe its gonna be more straight forward this time round...

Still a cash cow though.
 
as someone that took large losses on anaconda stock, I would be upset to learn that the process was pretty simple and they still stuffed it up!
 
Dear All,

1. According to REIWA.com, the Perth median house price has now reached A$460,000 in December 2006, after achieving 4.5% growth during the last 3 months.

2. Rob Druitt, as President REIWA, is reported as saying that though the Perth median price is still growing, the rate of growth has indeed slowed down by some 50%.

3. The number of house sales in Perth Metro Region has reportedly dropped by 15% in the Dec 2006 quarter with average number of selling days increasing to 47 days, in line with its long term average selling days norm.

4. Current house sale listings has now increased by some 29% to 11,400 dwellings, from its previous 8,800 dwellings in Sep 2006 quarter.

5. The median house rent for Perth Metro Region has now increased to A$270 per week.

6. Perth has also been reported as the 11th most unaffordable city in the world according the latest Demographia Report 2007 release.

7. Some new commentators have suggested the Perth housing prices may soon start to suffer some drastic price correction upto 20% fall from its last price peak in December 2006 over the next few years, similar to what is happening to the post-boom Sydney property market situation today.

8. For your update and further comments/discussion, please.

9. Thank you.


regards,
Kenneth KOH
 
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Syd faltered because people were leaving for Qld and the coast. Plus the sharemarket had started its 4 year rally. Brokers and financial planning firms re-opened their doors in droves. Fast money was no longer in IPs but ALL and CSL. The parameters which killed our market certainly not very evident over there. Imagine a share market collapse? Wonder where mums and dads would start parking their cash?? Interesting times ahead for WA resi IPs in 07.
 
Dear ASDF,

1. In your a/m post, what do the terms "ALL" and "CSL" actually refer to, please?

2. I am being told that because of the recent pro-superannuation policies at the Federal Level, to exempt upto A$1,000,000 tax-free captail gains for transfer into the respective superannuation funds by 30th June 2007. Consequently, many retiring babyboomers can be expected to sell off their properties portfolio so as to effectively transfer their tax free capital gains into their Superannuation Fund.

3. However, I remain "un-convinced" that this market trend will occur in any significant manner, as doing so, does not actually appear to me, to be a "logical" move for an average investor, who truly knopws what he/she is doing.

4. There was further mention that as a result of the recent company mergers and acquisitions exercises, many retirng investors are also suddenly finding themselves being left a big lump sum of cash proceeds from the sale of their stock shares whose capital gains made are taxable. Many of the investors have previously invested for the good dividends returns to fund their own future retirement lifestyle expenses.

5. Will this group of cash-rich investors likely to decide to invest into the various property markets so as to generate the required tax losses in an attempt to offset their newly-founds capital gains from the stock shares sale through the existing negative gearing tax benefits?

6. For your further update and further comments/discussion, please.

7.Thank you.

regards,
Kenneth KOH
 
Dear All,

1. It was reported that "House Prices Fall In 118 Perth suburbs" in yesterday's West Australian Newspapers dated 18th Feb 2007.

"The biggest losses were in Nollamara, Secret Harbour, Midland, Westfield, Innaloo, Kenwick, Greenwood, Girrawheen and Gosnells — though all of these suburbs still enjoyed growth of more than 30 per cent over the year. "

"Popular areas of the South-West also saw prices fall, with Bridgetown-Greenbushes losing 8.5 per cent, Augusta-Margaret River 0.5 per cent, Busselton 5 per cent and Albany 3 per cent. Regional land prices overall slumped 7.8 per cent."

"Property analysts are warning that the first-home buyer market has collapsed since the new year, with most blaming Treasurer Eric Ripper for suggesting that stamp duty could be cut in the May Budget. "

http://www.thewest.com.au/printfriendly.aspx?ContentID=21630


2. Anthony Klan from the Australian newspapers also reported
"Perth property boom ends, Sydney sags" on 15th Feb 2007.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21230301-601,00.html


3. For your kind update and further comment/discussion, please.

4. Thank you.

regards,
Kenneth KOH
 
Kenneth

My apologies for making my reply here off topic.

Thank you for dropping by in Canberra to say hello. I very much appreciated it.

My additional apologies that my time was all too brief. When you dropped in, I was very close to leaving for the day.

I hope your daughter wasn't too bored by the investment talk- though it seems she was.

For your kind etc etc...
 
WA real estate to offer many opportunities for some time yet

My gut feel is that sections of the Perth market will continue to see modest capital growth in the coming few years and strong growth in yields. Notwithstanding that, I feel there will be many opportunities to profit from real estate investments as there is certain to be large amounts of land development and housing construction especially in the north south corridor near main transport infrastructure - freeway & railway - to accommodate the growing population.
 
Dear All,

1. In the West Australian newspapers today, it was reported that house sale in Perth, has slumped as much as 40% in the March quarter as investors bale out and first homebuyers wait for the much anticipated tax relief.

2. The number of house listing for sale has increased to almost 13,000 in mid Feb 2007, twice as many during the same period in 2006.

3. Initial assessment by REIWA reveals that total house sales has dropped by some 40% below March 2006 and 33% below March 2005 respectively.

6. According to Rob Druitt, President REIWA, it now takes 6-8 weeks to sell a house under today's market conditions.

7. For your kind update and further comments/discussion, please.

8. Thank you.


regards,
Kenneth KOH
 
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