17 year olds

[WinstonWolfe]

That's funny

You have come down on your son like a tonne of bricks, that is the hardest penalty I have ever seen enforced.

You must be very young Bigtone. If I or several of my mates had lied and defied our fathers to such an extreme, we'd have been physically thrashed with a kettle cord...I'd have been scared witless of going home until the old man had time to cool off, in addition to the above and having all means of independent monetary support removed. TBH actually talked me out of forcing him to quit his p/t job.

Agree or not, my priority for his next 5 months is to perform academically to the best of his ability. Otherwise the 3 hours of private tutoring each week, and 14k pa on private schooling may have been a bad investment, don't you think?

 

[Bill.L]

Hi WW,

As a father of a 17 YO daughter, and 2 older siblings, I feel for you. Trying to put myself into your position is impossible. However a couple of things do occur to me. Firstly I think the punishment is overly harsh, after all you did give him permission to have mates over.

Secondly, as a parent there is a fine line between punishment at that age and the kid saying bugger you, I'm out of here. I hope that you and he are not near that. The mere fact that he was prepared to have a wild party, knowingly against your wishes, in your house, means that everything is not 100% OK between him and you.
When I was young my elder sister ran away from home at 15 because my parents tried to curtail her going out with her boyfriend (24), ie she was grounded for a while.


Personally I think the following is more to worry about than a drunken party at home....

shooting German machine guns and pistols, driving tanks, and mountain biking with packs and rifles.

bye

 

[Bigtone]

You must be very young Bigtone. If I or several of my mates had lied and defied our fathers to such an extreme, we'd have been physically thrashed with a kettle cord...I'd have been scared witless of going home until the old man had time to cool off, in addition to the above and having all means of independent monetary support removed. TBH actually talked me out of forcing him to quit his p/t job.

Agree or not, my priority for his next 5 months is to perform academically to the best of his ability. Otherwise the 3 hours of private tutoring each week, and 14k pa on private schooling may have been a bad investment, don't you think?

Nah not young (late 30's) but not old enough to forget what being a teenager was like.

I don't necessarily disagree with the punishment it is just the harshest i have seen, time will tell of its effectiveness. I wouldn't stress too much about the academic results, when i look back at school and uni those with the best results rarely transferred those into real world.

At 17 I had a mix of friends from different walks of life (public primary and private secondary school) and all of them were getting drunk and or using drugs every week. Some turned out well, healthy and wealthy and others the opposite, just a stage we all go through. Only difference is the drugs available now are much worse and more prevalent, in my years it was mostly just mull but now teenagers have access to lots of cheap and nasty drugs that are widespread especially in the private schools in Melb where disposable $$$$ is high among the kids.

My only advice would be not to stress too much about the short term, people find their niche at different times, personally I was renting at 30 and had very little indeed, by 40 things will look very different. I know many people who have knuckled down a bit later in life.

All his achievements sound great I am sure he will turn out very well and now you have laid down the law I agree with james, give him some more rope and see how he handles it.

Good luck

BT

 

[WinstonWolfe]

The mere fact that he was prepared to have a wild party, knowingly against your wishes, in your house, means that everything is not 100% OK between him and you.

...and his mother.

Personally I think the following is more to worry about than a drunken party at home....

Maybe you are right Bill, but then maybe the Germans raise their kids with more discipline, and naturally regard their 16yo's as more mature than we regard ours, enough to train them more realistically for warfare.

I hope you aren't one of the many who expect American 17yo's to defend your farm if Australia ever gets invaded by Chinese 15yo's driving tanks, while ours get a note from Mum saying they have a party that day.

Whatever, Germany has a current account surplus, and we don't. Maybe we could learn a lot from them.

Incidentally, I counted up the total alcohol based on the empties I could be bothered finding, and came up with a conservative estimate of the number of stand alcoholic drinks consumed........467.

 

[Bill.L]

WW,

I hope you aren't one of the many who expect American 17yo's to defend your farm if Australia ever gets invaded by Chinese 15yo's driving tanks, while ours get a note from Mum saying they have a party that day.

Do you really think that we are defensible at all against a Chinese invasion?? We have a very small/too small, a population base to defend a country this size. Forget about it, way off topic anyway.

bye

 

[skater]

Winston, I think that the punishment is fine. That was a LOT of alcohol and there would have been a lot of people doing who knows what, in your house. I believe that good parenting involves setting boundaries, giving advice, handing out punishment when the child does wrong, giving praise when deserved and leading by example.

Too many parents these days are busy trying to be friends with their kids. You are not their friends, you are their parents and your job is to raise your children into adults that function in society to the best of their ability, knowing right from wrong and acting appropriately. You can be friends later.

With mine, we used to get upset at the little stuff, but the big stuff is different. Whenever something large came, we would sit down and decided the best way forward. Many times my kids had a grounding that would remove all contact from their friends. They could go to school and training and their jobs, but nothing else. We also used to ban the use of the phone and internet.

One of my weapons in attempting to keep my kids occupied was involvement in sport and part-time jobs as soon as they were able. Because both Mum and Dad were also involved in the sport, they had to spend time with us, whether they liked it or not. This left little time to socialise without our knowing who they were with and (hopefully) what they were up to.

Like many teenage girls the rebellion started at age 13-14. Lil, always mature for her age, emerged early and recognised that many of her "friends" were pulling her down. She tried many times to remove such "friends" from her life, but they always slowly filtered back in. So, to move on with her life she decided that none of these people would ever have any influence in her life again.

She deleted everyone from her Facebook account. Removed the numbers from her mobile phone. Then moved to Melbourne. Drastic, I know. But she is a driven girl with ambitions and recognised that if she wanted to get anywhere in life she had to move in a different cirle, not just in her social life, but for a new skating coach too. She is doing that.

I feel that my job is complete. She is now a fuctioning adult, supporting herself and moving in the right direction. These days I can not only call her daughter, but friend also. I am proud of her.

 

[depreciator]

Only difference is the drugs available now are much worse and more prevalent, in my years it was mostly just mull but now teenagers have access to lots of cheap and nasty drugs

Yep, this is what scares the bejeezus out of me. We didn't have as many options. And drugs were harder to get. And relatively more expensive. I know a bloke whose 17 year old daughter took something at a party. She was apparently a good kid and it was a first (but who really knows). She died. She died partly because nobody called an ambulance quickly enough. My girls are 7 and 9, but I've already got them to understand that if something ever goes wrong with them or their friends and they need to call for help, nobody will be cranky.

 

[wylie]

I think that any parent who thinks 'my kid doesn't drink, etc' is delusional. My parents had no idea of the half of what I was up to as a teenager, and I was a reasonably sensible teenager.

I think you are deluding yourself to think that parents don't have an idea of what kids are up to. Parents were "teenagers" once too .

I especially think this is the case for my generation. I am 50 and my two older brothers were drinking themselves senseless, partying when my parents went overseas for ten weeks when I was 17. I think my parents would not have been so "wild" but plenty of men my dad's age (77) were hard drinkers, some just a little older were fighting in another country by the time they were 18 (or younger). I think the young women were not as wild, but that is probably due to some of them not wanting to let on.

I certainly believe it is much worse now, but partly because it is so much more "acceptable" and "expected".

Perhaps we have had a relatively easy time with our two that are now 21 and 18. They certainly were not drinking, though some of their friends were. My 21 year old has only just started having a drink when he goes out. The 18 year old called us and asked if it was okay if he had a drink and sleep it off at a party when he was almost 18.

He is not a "namby pamby" kid in any way, but has seen drugs and alcohol take their toll on an aunt and uncle and knows the "addict" gene runs through both sides of his parents' families, and is understandably wary of who it will affect in the next generation.

He plays sport five days a week and works a few full days when not at uni and really just doesn't have time between his commitments and girlfriend to get "off his face".

Our 14 year old is still to show what he is made of. We are not out of the woods yet.

 

[weg]

I think you are deluding yourself to think that parents don't have an idea of what kids are up to. Parents were "teenagers" once too

Agree, and many take it one step further in that they befriended and are in regular contact with many of their friends parents. Not much escapes some of us.

Just recently I told my son he woke a family by ringing their home phone at 3am (we have little contact with this family) and his comment was, 'what the... how did you know that'. Good ol' networks .

My son does drink but has a thing for sleeping in his own bed after going out, which means I know what state he's in every time (sober looking ). Beware the child that is always sleeping elsewhere .

Much of the drinking happens here in our presence and they are sensible. It's less taboo, and they're not prowling the streets, gatecrashing parties or drink driving.

As for drugs I know his close circle don't do them. They think it's dumb. My son has been offered it but declined it because it doesn't interest him, just as getting 'sick' drunk doesn't interest him.

I think many kids can drink and be very social yet they don't abuse drugs. As for sex... not much has changed.

 

[skater]

I think you are deluding yourself to think that parents don't have an idea of what kids are up to. Parents were "teenagers" once too .

LOL! Funny you should say this. I can clearly remember talking to one of my girls (the eldest, I think) and she was saying stuff like "What would you know?" "It was different in your day" etc, when she was telling me about the goings on at school and the associated pressures.

At the time all I could think of was "Gee, is that all?" because what she was going through was nowhere near what I went through. Mine was clearly WORSE!

Lil, when younger, did certain stuff, then proceeded to tell me about it(was feeling guilty, and wanted reasurance that I still thought highly of her), but in a roundabout kind of way, hinting, etc, to test the waters to see what kind of trouble she might be in. Again all I could think of was "Gee, is that all?", because I had also done the same stuff, but at a younger age.

I think, as parents, having been exposed to some of the things that are out there, means that you are aware of what your kids can get up to. The hard part is in guiding them and teaching them how to deal with these things. At the end of the day, you just do the best that you can, then you have to sit back and hope that it has all sunk in.

 

[Perp]

My girls are 7 and 9, but I've already got them to understand that if something ever goes wrong with them or their friends and they need to call for help, nobody will be cranky.

In a similar vein, one thing my parents always told me was that if I drove to a party and then had a drink anyway, or if my designated driver had a drink when they weren't supposed to, that I shouldn't hesitate to ring them at 3am to come and collect me, and they wouldn't be angry. They'd far rather I did that than take a chance with drink-driving.

They also made sure that I had enough money with me to get a taxi home if necessary, but the "phone home" option was also there if I didn't have the money for a taxi.

In other words, they made it abundantly clear that my getting home safely was more important than their sleep or money or obeying the rules or anything else. Other parents, I'm sure, felt the same way, but the difference was that my parents had spelled out exactly what that meant in terms of actions I should take, and assured me that they wouldn't be angry.

 

[rugrat]

Wylie - you are right about alot of parents. My parents didn't nesseccarily know what was going on with me, though they are starting to realise a bit more now as my DH shares some stories with them - but they thought I was the 'good' one, and were busy chasing after my five other siblings, who were not so good at hiding their indiscretions. FWIW, I was pretty good, but I did also get drunk every weekend, and other stuff... I won't tell you what my DH was getting up to, but his mum knew he was up to stuff, but didn't want to know the extent of it.

I am not saying all parents are oblivious, but it is easy to get caught up thinking that "my child is the 'good' one", when they are doing things you don't know about. And of course there really are parents out there who cannot believe that their little angel could possibly be up to anything not 100% above board, it is always someone elses fault if something happens.

WW - I think the punishment is more then fair. He was given trust and responsibility, which he broke. He now needs to earn that trust back.

 

[wylie]

I am not saying all parents are oblivious, but it is easy to get caught up thinking that "my child is the 'good' one", when they are doing things you don't know about. And of course there really are parents out there who cannot believe that their little angel could possibly be up to anything not 100% above board, it is always someone elses fault if something happens.

Absolutely agree rugrat, and I know parents who are like this. One classic example is a parent I know whose child was part of a bullying duo whose victim was so traumatised he was under the care of a psycologist and changed schools mid year aged about ten to escape the bullying. I decided to let the mum know because, as a mother I would want to know if my child was bullying someone. She spoke to her little angel, who denied it, and she reported back to me that he was innocent . The school didn't even ask who the bullies were, which disgusted me. Did they think these bullies would not move on to another victim?

I know other parents who believe their little darling's **** doesn't stink. I have often felt like a bad parent because I know my kids' failings and don't pretend there are not behaviours that I wish were different. Sometimes I feel like everyone else is living some kind of "Brady Bunch" family life while we are not, but with my close friends, we discuss it all, the good AND the bad. I feel better then, knowing we are pretty "normal".

Me, personally..... I was not into alcohol, drugs, sex, wild parties. I was pretty tame. In my late teens and early twenties I spent a lot of time each weekend at the coast with people pretty like me, but plenty of others were pretty wild. I was never one to have to follow the crowd to fit in, and hubby was pretty similar. Perhaps our kids have just inherited some of our "less wild" tendencies .

I really think we have been lucky. The trauma happening with my older brother while I was a teenager no doubt had a big impact on my behaviour. I lived through and saw some crazy stuff and I don't know how my parents held it together having to deal with his crap. Nothing's changed.

 

[joanmc]

I showed WW's punishment list to my 16 YO and he assures me he won't touch a drop until he is 18 LMAO!!!!!!!!

 

[steveadl]

Yep, this is what scares the bejeezus out of me. We didn't have as many options. And drugs were harder to get. And relatively more expensive. I know a bloke whose 17 year old daughter took something at a party. She was apparently a good kid and it was a first (but who really knows). She died. She died partly because nobody called an ambulance quickly enough. My girls are 7 and 9, but I've already got them to understand that if something ever goes wrong with them or their friends and they need to call for help, nobody will be cranky.

WW, Whilst he deserves to be punished, to me it seems harsh - but then I'm probably not the best judge for that sort of behaviour since I didn't carry on like that as a teen nor did my siblings (perhaps the German upbringing? ). So on whether punishment fits the crime obviously you and other parents would be be the best judge.

My main thought was, at the age of 17 - with the punishment handed down, do you risk him telling (or at least thinking) you to sod off and he'll do whatever the hell he wants? Will this start to cause resentment on his behalf and lead to further behaviour of this manner? It's something that only you can judge based on your relationship with him, but that was one of the first things that came to my mind upon reading the story so far.

 

[ok180]

When i was 17 i bought a 2 litre bottle of coke poured half straight down the sink then poured a whole bottle of Jim Beam in the half empty bottle and drank the lot.


Im still here.

 

[Perp]

When i was 17 i bought a 2 litre bottle of coke poured half straight down the sink then poured a whole bottle of Jim Beam in the half empty bottle and drank the lot.

That sounds embarrassingly familiar. LOL

Except I was 16, and I added Southern Comfort rather than Jim Beam. (More embarrassment!)

Oh dear.

 

[weg]

In my case there's something to be said for, 'getting it out of your system when you're young', literally.

I got sick on spirits at around 17, and apart from a few whiskey shots I had in Greece (do as the locals do ), I haven't really touched spirits since.

Hmm... I do like my beer and wine though .

 

[WinstonWolfe]

Steve and others who think it is too harsh....yes that's a risk.

But I've had to look after kids in ICU who have been turned into paraplegics and quadriplegics after car crashes and diving into the shallow end of pools while drunk etc. ANd if you think that penalty is harsh, think about how harsh it is to be permanently confined to a wheelchair, unable to wipe your bum, have a shower, feed your face.

As I said earlier, in the alcohol empties I recovered, there were 467 standard alcoholic drinks. The story developed a little more today when I raised this with the lad. The story has changed to there being about half girls and half guys here on Thursday night, which explains the cocktail mixers a bit better. And most stayed the night.

On that evidence, I put it to him that if there had only been 20 people here, and the average weight of the girls was 55kg and that of the boys 70kg, and the girls drank less than the boys, then most people would have still been over 0.05 at midday the following day, by which time most had driven off. He didn't really have a response to that. It is funny how the maths escapes so many today.

Anyway, further talks today got us all back onto positive territory.
Enjoying all the posts here. It is an eye opener.

 

[Bon]

LOL! How naive are you... you were 17 once, what did you think they were going to do?