Aussie drug dealers (alleged)

[Bricks & Mortar]

Not sure about a trade off, It could just be a coincidence.
I am sure that dealing in drugs should not go unpunished, hopefully the ringleaders r given the top billing when the sentence is passed.
The kids caught seem to feel a bit invincable at that age, but as you said Pete, they certainly now the difference between right and illegal.
Unfortunately their parents will suffer as much as they will despite what upbringing they had... You cant follow their every move, All you can do is pass on your own set of values and hope it carries thru.

as Kevins footnote says
"It's not what you leave for your children but what you leave in them"
or maybe we can do both


Timm

 

[TommyR]

Hi All,
The thing that bothers me about the manner in which this matter has been handled by the AFP is that they are an agency which is assigned the task of administering the laws of this country . Regardless of any personal views members of this agency may have,rightly or wrongly, we do not have capital punishment in Australia so to create a situation where citizens of this country are arrested in a juristiction which does is a little unsettling.
TommyR

 

[Sunfish]

"Unless someone is medically certified as being of very low intelligence or challenged". Trust me Peter, it aint that easy.

I have a "damaged" child. Her difficulties became evident before her first b'day. She was a mid-teen before we got a satisfactory diagnosis but we still cannot get official guardianship of her another 20yrs on.

Having such a child makes you sensitive to others who may have similar difficulties and I am sad to say many parents do not seek the truth and do not care for their child with the love and understanding they deserve.

I have no doubt that my daughter could do something very silly were she given the opportunity, hence the close supervision.

Thommo

 

[Wazza007]

Hi All,
The thing that bothers me about the manner in which this matter has been handled by the AFP is that they are an agency which is assigned the task of administering the laws of this country . Regardless of any personal views members of this agency may have,rightly or wrongly, we do not have capital punishment in Australia so to create a situation where citizens of this country are arrested in a juristiction which does is a little unsettling.
TommyR

So your saying the AFP knowing a crime was under way should have ignored the fact and not informed the Indonesians? Imagine if this situation was reversed most Australians wouldnt be happy if the Indonesians didnt inform us.

These idiots who got caught took a risk based on greed with no thought to the pain and suffering the product they were attempting to bring into our country would cause.

After pulling my heroin addicted brother off a 4 lane highway because he wanted to end it all in despair and working for over 8 years in Kings Cross and seeing the destroyed lives not only to addicts but their families...DO NOT GIVE THESE BASTARDS AN INCH.

Do not feel sorry for these people, Im making an assumption but it is based on my experiences that they are not unlucky battlers who just took a chance. Drug gangs dont just go up to anyone on the street and say "hey do you want to earn $10,000... keep this to yourself its a secret"

They approach people they know who are already involved with offers of not only money but product to sell to others if successfull.

If they get the death penalty and it stops others from attempting (which it probably wont) so be it, they made the decision well now its time to pay the price.

Cheers

Waz

 

[Aceyducey]

On reading this thread I'm convinced that this forum is becoming over-run with older perspectives (or you could say colloquially that I think everyone is beginning to sound like fuddy-duddies).

Most people posting are more concerned about the parents than the people in the centre of this case. And are more interested in ensuring people are punished severely than rehabilitated or educating people in the first place.

Is this how posters would have felt personally twenty years ago (more or less for some)?

Look at your own responses and where they come from....

1. There's been no convictions
2. The media has been playing up the guilt & parental/relative anguish factor (standard procedure)
3. Based on the last 40 years the style of punishment doesn't reduce the incidence of the crime
4. There's been no convictions!!!!
5. Should we severely punish the bag carrier or the exploiters???? The exploiters can always find more bag carriers!
6. Don't punish all youth for the crime - only punish those who have been found to do wrong (and yes do punish them - but then follow through by educating others to prevent future crimes).

It's bad enough that we're doing nothing of substance to address youth unemployment (after all they're NOT us) but are focusing on seniors unemployment (a more valuable and influential voting constituency). And we're not adequately funding our schools or supporting child care (more important to pay pensions).

Let's stop blaming young people and start addressing the issues at their roots.

Remember that the youth of today will be paying your pensions, health care and for your infrastructure and delivering the services you want in the future!

If we cripple them now through poor education & job prospects, where will tomorrow's Doctors, fire engine drivers, police, etc, etc, etc come from?

And remember your own experiences as young adults - I bet that VERY few of you were straitlaced young fuddy-duddies!

Why expect to put your learning experiences behind you but deny them to today's youth?

There's some wonderful graffiti in the ruins of Pompei bemoaning the low standards, looseness and lack of serious commitment of the youth of 'today'.

Thousands of years on, we're still using the same mantra!

Cheers,

Aceyducey

 

[natmarie73]

I heard on the ABC late news last night, and read in the Age this morning that the ringleader threatened to kill the families of the smugglers if they did not carry the drugs for him - at least that was my take on it and of course not too much reported these days is the truth. But who would risk certain death for a measly $10,000 - not too many people I would think, but I'm sure a lot more would risk it if their families lives were on the line.

What really astounds me is that Shappelle Corby(who I believe to be innocent) can get death, or life in prison (worse) for a bit of dope, and that monster who organised the Bali bombing gets less than 3 years for killing over 100 people deliberately. That is just wrong.

Nat

 

[agent 86]

And remember your own experiences as young adults - I bet that VERY few of you were straitlaced young fuddy-duddies!

Why expect to put your learning experiences behind you but deny them to today's youth?

Acey,

Basically agree with your post.

But I don't think its old fuddy-duddies at fault here.

From what I've picked up out of this thread so far is that there is a lot of only
"Black & White" thinkers who don't realise there are shades of "Grey".

Also the "B&W" s from what I can gather may be people who have not yet had children and / or if they have, their children have not reached the late teens yet.

I think people of the "old fuddy duddy " age group may in fact not be the
fuddy duddys.

A86

 

[Sunfish]

Grey headed old B****** if you must, even old fart is OK but I deny absolutely being a fuddy duddy.

 

[madmurf]

Acey,

Basically agree with your post.

But I don't think its old fuddy-duddies at fault here.

From what I've picked up out of this thread so far is that there is a lot of only
"Black & White" thinkers who don't realise there are shades of "Grey".

Also the "B&W" s from what I can gather may be people who have not yet had children and / or if they have, their children have not reached the late teens yet.

I think people of the "old fuddy duddy " age group may in fact not be the
fuddy duddys.

A86

Acey and A86

I have three teenages and I dont think they would ever consider to do such a stupid thing to earn money.
Sorry I didnt fit into your BOX
19 years of age. They new exactly what the risks were.
Just like you do when you buy property or bet on horses or speed.
The TV pictures speak for them selves.
Its all B&W to me.

Madmurf

 

[Aceyducey]

The TV pictures speak for them selves.
Its all B&W to me.

It's this type of statement that really make me scared for the future of our democratic institutions

Wag the Dog.

Cheers,

Aceyducey

 

[agent 86]

Acey and A86

I have three teenages and I dont think they would ever consider to do such a stupid thing to earn money.
Sorry I didnt fit into your BOX
19 years of age. They new exactly what the risks were.
Just like you do when you buy property or bet on horses or speed.
The TV pictures speak for them selves.
Its all B&W to me.

Madmurf

Madmurf,

A lot of Late teenage / early twenty something boys are different.

I'd guess they were aware of the risks but some don't think.

Are your thought patterns the same as they were then.

As you mention "speeding", were you always the road abiding, courteous driver you now are, when a late teenager.

There are shades of Grey and I certainly wasn't putting you into a Box.

There is a demand for Heroin.

Acey was correct in saying "lets start addressing the issue at the roots".

That to me is more correct than saying "kill the pawns".

A86

 

[madmurf]

Hi Acey

I like your signature quote

"Life, like a mirror, gives back what we put into it. - Anon"

Now if you believe that, could it also reflect the consequences of your actions.

We all take risks. These teenagers made a calculated risk and now will pay the price.

Ignoring the morals the only difference between us and them is they were prepared to take a higher risk.

I am a very B&W person when it comes to hard drugs.

What if these drugs had made it back to Australia. It would hurting a lot more than 9 families.

Madmurf

 

[trump]

Absolutely agree that we should be addressing the root causes; stuff like an education system that fails so many, high youth unemployment, exploitation of the young and willing through casual employment ahead of real jobs.

These are long-term issues.

In the meantime we have to attempt to protect society from those who seek to exploit the weak. I too have seen the impact of drugs, it is not pretty, we have to take a stand. We cannot stand by and allow this to go unchallenged while society searches, as it has for thousands of years, for a solution.

We all understand supply and demand. Alas there is perhaps no long-term solution but to control evil in whatever way we can so that we protect those we care about.

Trump
Concerned parent, grandparent and grey-shaded thinker

 

[blossomoz]

I really feel for the parents in this situation. But calling them kids, I'm sorry they are not kids. They are able to vote, drink etc. They are legally adults & as adults have the freedom to make choices. Along with freedom goes responsibility.
We have all been cash strapped at one time or the other, so I don't think that is sufficient excuse. That heroin would have ruined the lives of those who became addicted &, not to be forgotten, their parents AND the community from whom those addicts would have chosen to steal; that could have been any of us!!
Cheers
Blossomoz

 

[Kevin Hockey]

Going to the root and education is fine for the future but for these 9 kids come adults their time is nigh. Reality is there may be no conviction yet but they've been caught with the gear strapped to their bodies, hardly circumstantial. For those who want education I'd suggest the best way for every one to learn is to watch what these poor, silly buggers are going to experience in the near future.

If it wasn't for these kids being prepared to smuggle dope plus the drug dealers and ring leaders, an innocent girl would have enjoyed her holiday in Bali and be at home with her family. The pictures of Schapelle Corby are disturbing. For 6 months now, around 180 days and nights, she has been left tormented in an Indonesian jail for simply being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

The best lesson for everyone is about to happen, it's one I will ensure my children understand. I also expect it to be my role, not any government. I have noticed nothing in these posts but people expressing their opinion which they are entitled, and no-one should begrudge them that right. Express your thoughts but don't tell me or anyone else what we should think.

And don't call me a fuddy duddy

Kev

www.kevinhockey.com.au

 

[luckyone]

Yeah, what Schapelle's case has taught me is to put locks on absolutely everything that you take overseas (although I don't know how this will work with some of my older suitcases). If it's secure enough then they shouldn't be able to get into it to plant the drugs. If they do, at least you will be able to identify that your luggage has been tampered with immediately.

I'm off to Fiji in July. Certainly hope it's safer than Bali. I'm NEVER going there!!

 

[duncan_m]

Yeah, what Schapelle's case has taught me is to put locks on absolutely everything that you take overseas (although I don't know how this will work with some of my older suitcases). If it's secure enough then they shouldn't be able to get into it to plant the drugs. If they do, at least you will be able to identify that your luggage has been tampered with immediately.

I'm off to Fiji in July. Certainly hope it's safer than Bali. I'm NEVER going there!!

A better solution than cheap padlocks is coloured plastic "cable ties" available from Dick Smiths etc.... they have to be cut to open your luggage and cant simply be clicked shut like a padlock after its been picked.. If you note your luggage has a cable tie missing at the carousel, dont touch it (or put it straight down if you've already picked it up) and immediately alert the customs staff.

 

[luckyone]

Cool, thanks for that Duncan. I'm actually quite nervous about travelling to Fiji cause of all this stuff with Schapelle. I mean, I know she got done in Bali, but it is still a cause of concern for me to go to any countries I'm not familiar with. I wouldn't be going at all (don't really have the money for it), but my sister is getting married over there so I feel I have no choice.

 

[Bricks & Mortar]

Cool, thanks for that Duncan. I'm actually quite nervous about travelling to Fiji cause of all this stuff with Schapelle. I mean, I know she got done in Bali, but it is still a cause of concern for me to go to any countries I'm not familiar with. I wouldn't be going at all (don't really have the money for it), but my sister is getting married over there so I feel I have no choice.

Fiji's a lot better, but watch out for the bus drivers, we had a real hair,
our kids were all under tweleve and despite requests to stop he just sped up.
It was coming back from one of those firewalks.
Heh maybe it was a one off, but it certainly took us by surprise.
and it was a long time ago.
Hope the day goes well
Timm

 

[keithj]

A better solution than cheap padlocks is coloured plastic "cable ties" available from Dick Smiths etc.... they have to be cut to open your luggage and cant simply be clicked shut like a padlock after its been picked.. If you note your luggage has a cable tie missing at the carousel, dont touch it (or put it straight down if you've already picked it up) and immediately alert the customs staff.

Excellent tip Duncan.... got any tips about how to undo the cable ties once you get there....since you checked in all scissors, knives & other sharp objects......