Australia's political middle ground?

[topcropper]

Seems the latest polls say people are turning away from labor and the libs, and turning to the greens?

Is the average voter in this country so politically uneducated that they think the greens are the political middle ground rather than the far left? Or do people really want to go ever further to the left then Kev and todays labor?

For a long time there was not a hell of a lot of difference between labor and liberals/nationals, so there was not much room in the middle, and this saw the demise of the democrats as they were seen to be irrelivant. Now that Kev has shown his socialist side and moved way to the left, there must be room for a party in the middle now?

So, what's going on? If people are upset with some of Kevs crazy schemes, then the greens are surely a lot crazier.

Why do so many inner city types vote greens? Surely they are some of the highest educated and highest paid people in the land. In the 2007 federal election, inner city Sydney and Melbourne recorded over 20% primary votes for the greens. So why do they vote greens? Is it just trendy? I've even seen otherwise intelligent people on here say they vote green. Do people really understand green policies?

I can't say I know a green voter personally. The 2007 federal election saw the greens score 3% in my electorate of New England and even labor got just 10%. I'd guess both labor and the greens would get a lot less at the next election from what I'm seeing now.


See ya's.

 

[Aaron Sice]

Why do so many inner city types vote greens? Surely they are some of the highest educated and highest paid people in the land. In the 2007 federal election, inner city Sydney and Melbourne recorded over 20% primary votes for the greens. So why do they vote greens? Is it just trendy? I've even seen otherwise intelligent people on here say they vote green. Do people really understand green policies?

because 99% of the population are very ill-educated about politics - the politicians rely on this.

voting green is like driving a prius - might make you feel warm and fuzzy inside, but in reality, they're both a very damaging vehicle.

 

[HiEquity]

Hi TC

IMO most of the growing support for the Greens is down to their name. An awful lot of people take environmental issues pretty seriously and don't like what they see in the major parties on the subject (myself included on that front - the level of the mainstream political debate on these issues is truly woeful). Voting Green is "sending a message" to the majors to lift their game in this area. If you're in a safe Lib / Labor seat and the election result for your seat is a done deal already, why wouldn't you vote for the little guy if you wanted to send such a message? Dangle the carrot to the majors that if you want this little vote you know where to find it! I know a lot of right wing environmentalists who do this - it's truly a pity that this cause has somehow been appropriated by the left. The Libs / Nats have now truly buried any green credentials they may have once had and are still dancing on the grave...

Oddly, I believe it's only because the Greens aren't a real political force in the House of Reps that they get this level of support and it carries over into the Senate, where they can make a real nuisance of themselves. Mind you, if they weren't there we may actually have ended up with the CPRS so be careful what you wish for! If they actually looked like seriously getting elected we would probably see a lot more analysis of their policies, which are really quite wacky when you take the time to read them. Until that day they can fly under the radar pandering to their small support base.

Having said that there are plenty of inner-city left wingers around the traps who do know the policies of the Greens and support them. Mostly Arts graduates IME! Look for the tea cosy hats...

The mainstream political thought is that the Greens are encroaching on the Labor vote and therefore by default assisting the Libs / Nats but I'm not sure how much of that is really going on. Either way, with recent events resulting in a whole heap of frustration with the major parties on this front, the only direction for the Greens in the next election is up!

 

[Witzl]

highly educated /= high intelligence IMO


I would never vote green, and i honestly dont understand why so many people do. The few people i have talked to who do vote green, say that they vote green as a protest against the major parties - which to me makes ZERO sense.

 

[topcropper]

Having said that there are plenty of inner-city left wingers around the traps who do know the policies of the Greens and support them. Mostly Arts graduates IME! Look for the tea cosy hats...

Ahhr.? Yep, never thought about those inner city dudes? I'm picturing flash suited up business types working in finance and law and stuff and wondering what their thinking? Thanks.


See ya's.

 

[topcropper]

highly educated /= high intelligence IMO


I would never vote green, and i honestly dont understand why so many people do. The few people i have talked to who do vote green, say that they vote green as a protest against the major parties - which to me makes ZERO sense.

Yes. So it's a pity there is no true middle ground party?

If the greens get the balance of power they could do some truely terrible things to agriculture and mining in this country.


See ya's.

 

[The Fence]

Turning away from Liberal or from Abbott.......?

Put Costello back or Turnbull and the pendulum would swing back to Libs....
Tony Abbott just has not got the personality, which seems to be all important these days.....it's not a celebrity poll....hmmmmm...or is it....? Garrett, McKew etc....

Maybe the Libs need a Jimmy Barnes or Ian Moss or Matty Johns, heck even the Fev or Aker....lol....

I'm with ya TC...it's dissapointing to see votes go the way of sentiment towards a trend(y) or a particular personality when it's the party that governs in the end.


Just my opinion.....

 

[Witzl]

The libs need David Boon.

He would win 98% of votes.
The other 2% of votes are non-australians.

 

[Sunfish]

No way could I vote green either. If I wanted to protest I'd write "Pox on both your parties" across my ballot. This is a well known vote and the scrutineers WILL read it if, as I suspect, they pick through all informal votes to see if they can claim any.

Under Rudd, Labor has become socialist with a deliberate appeal to the "working" class to rise up against the bosses and the Libs have become a high tax and spend party appealing to the hip pocket of the masses similar to classic Labor.

Informal is looking more and more attractive.

 

[The Fence]

So who gets a POX vote....? I don't understand this vote...can you ellaborate please ?

 

[Aaron Sice]

No way could I vote green either. If I wanted to protest I'd write "Pox on both your parties" across my ballot. This is a well known vote and the scrutineers WILL read it if, as I suspect, they pick through all informal votes to see if they can claim any.

Under Rudd, Labor has become socialist with a deliberate appeal to the "working" class to rise up against the bosses and the Libs have become a high tax and spend party appealing to the hip pocket of the masses similar to classic Labor.

Informal is looking more and more attractive.

that's a donkley vote and goes to the winning party.

 

[Sunfish]

So who gets a POX vote....? I don't understand this vote...can you ellaborate please ?

It's informal. No-one does. That's the point.

I would vote for Atilla the Hun before this labor, nor would I vote lib under Turnbull until/unless he denounced the carbon tax. It is a protest only and I feel a need to protest.

 

[Sunfish]

that's a donkley vote and goes to the winning party.

It's NOT a donkey vote and it does NOT go to any party. A "donkey vote" goes to the top name on the ballot.

 

[The Fence]

Ah..thanks Sunfish...I had the impression they could claim it as a vote....no wonder I was confused....

I guess your vote is your own personal privilege to do with what you like.

At least you have thought about it and there is no-one to vote for and didn't just go with the trend.....or a celebrity...

 

[Sunfish]

Interesting thing Thorpy, it's not illegal for me to deliberately vote informal (how could they know how I voted anyway in a "secret" ballot) but is is against the electoral act for me to encourage others to do so.

So plainly I am not encouraging anybody, merely voicing my private thoughts. LOL

 

[topcropper]

Turning away from Liberal or from Abbott.......?
Put Costello back or Turnbull and the pendulum would swing back to Libs....
.....

I'd reckon your spot on Thorpey.

Turnbull was charismatic and popular. Costello was always seen to be lacking popularity when treasurer, but then that comes with the job. I'd think he'd gain popularity if leader. I always saw past the smirk, and just saw a confident, smart and humorous bloke who was great in parliament and could speak as well as Kev.


See ya's.

 

[HiEquity]

Interesting thing Thorpy, it's not illegal for me to deliberately vote informal (how could they know how I voted anyway in a "secret" ballot) but is is against the electoral act for me to encourage others to do so.

Not according to this

"According to the Australian Electoral Commission, as of October 2007 "It is not an offence to vote informally in a federal election, nor is it an offence to encourage other voters to vote informally".[9] It is, however, an offence to "mislead an elector in relation to the casting of his vote". The number of informal votes is recorded, but they are not counted as part of the total number of votes cast. Around 95% of registered voters attend polling, and around 5% of Representatives votes are informal. "

BTW, Aaron is both correct and incorrect. A donkey vote is just numbered 1 to X in ascending order down the page and is therefore counted as a vote in favour of the top candidate on the ballot paper. Different ballot papers typically have the candidates presented in different orders to prevent this having an overall impact.

An informal vote is treated as not having voted at all. This actually favours the winning candidate, rather than the topmost candidate on the ballot as it reduces the sample size of votes to choose from. And I don't think scrutineers hold a lot of influence over the major parties...

 

[HiEquity]

Turning away from Liberal or from Abbott.......?

A good question. ATM the Libs seem to be split down the middle between the hard right Conservative element (aka Abbott / Minchin) and the centrist Liberal element (aka Costello / Turnbull). Howard was able to temporarily unify the party by delicately sitting between these two, depending on the topic at hand (refugees vs middle class handouts).

As Malcolm Fraser noted, it seems the more moderate Libs have been losing the battle for some time. IMO unless the Party moves back to the centre they are unelectable. With Labor going further left, an opening has indeed presented itself for either party to go for the middle ground that actually wins elections...

The result of this next election will be determined by who can better present themselves as the rightful owner of the middle - hard to imagine Abbott pulling that off. Rudd has at least done it before...

 

[The Fence]

Fair comment HE....well said...

 

[Luv2Travel]

I think people just hear the name Green and think "they save the world, I'm going to vote for them" but have absolutely no clue. I know I told my mother off when she voted for them for this exact reason. As for the young artsy fartsy inner city types, is probably just trendy and they haven't a clue.

I don't understand why anyone would do a donkey vote or not want to vote at all. I used to be one of the ones who would complain election day about having to go down. Then I saw the movie 'Iron Jawed Angels', which is about what women went through to get women the vote, and instead am grateful I can vote. I have never complained since. And seeing what other countries go through to fight for democracy, I can't believe we complain about having a say how our country is run.