Australia's political middle ground?

[Bargain Hunter]

As a young voter dissatisfied with the major parties I voted Green. I then found out that my vote went to Labor as preferences. If I wanted to vote Labor I would have, I have never voted for The Greens since.

I believe compulsory voting and preferences maintain the status quo in Australian politics and do not see any valid reason for their continuance. If only 40% of Australians can be bothered to vote good on them. If the winner only gets 40% of the vote but gets the most votes then they are the winner, first past the post is good enough at The Melbourne Cup.

Perhaps The Greens are getting the intellectual vote. Perhaps successful city dwellers have been able to hold onto their University bred ideologies. Personally it's the breadth of the ideology that makes The Greens unsupportable. They do not simply have an environmental platform, if you want to save the whale then you support the use of cannabis - medicinal use only (technically still a green issue).

Even Labor can't stand them. Lindsay Tanner got it right when he called them the great windbags of Australian politics, in that never have to deliver as they will never be the government... demanding the most extreme things knowing that they don't have to persuade the majority of Australians... or find the money to pay for it...

http://www.2ue.com.au/blogs/2ue-blog/the-greens-a-party-of-windbags/20100512-uw1c.html

Regards

Andrew

 

[HiEquity]

As a young voter dissatisfied with the major parties I voted Green. I then found out that my vote went to Labor as preferences. If I wanted to vote Labor I would have, I have never voted for The Greens since.

Hi Andrew

I would have thought that directing your preferences elsewhere would have been a relatively simple matter? ie to whoever you preferred next? BTW our preferential system of voting is generally seen as being superior to first past the post - just ask the British (although perhaps not the Tories!).

It's a complex issue but preferences certainly have their advantages and have worked well in Australia to give better definition in marginal seats, as well as proportional representation in the Senate, which can only be a good thing... it gives more of a chance to the minor parties anyway.

 

[bene313]

Perhaps the next political middle ground will be the INTERNET:

http://www.senatoronline.org.au/

 

[buzzlightyear]

As a young voter dissatisfied with the major parties I voted Green. I then found out that my vote went to Labor as preferences. If I wanted to vote Labor I would have, I have never voted for The Greens since....

BH, you can preference anyone you like, you need not follow the preferences that the Greens have recommended for you. You are the one that voted and gave your preference to the ALP. It doesn't magically occur.

The swing away from the major parties is not surprising given the political climate. You have to ask yourself why? People are wanting a viable solution to climate change and if they are not going to be addressed by the major parties, then some people will look for answers elsewhere. Pretty simple really. The reality is right now, the only major political party (no the Greens aren't major) with a climate change policy are the Lib/Nats. Rudd has car-parked the ALP's until 2012.

And making the blanket statement that the electorate are dumb, uneducated, Arts graduates, blah, blah, blah is a cop-out, disingenous, banal and arrogant in the extreme. Are these the same people setting the market price for your property prices or rentals?

 

[Sunfish]

Are these the same people setting the market price for your property prices or rentals?

Ah! But there are smart dumb, uneducated, Arts graduates, participating in the property merry-go-round and there are dumb ones voting against the party I want in power. Don't you know the difference? LOL

 

[Bargain Hunter]

Buzz,

As I stated I was young and didn't realise that my vote would count for nothing due to preferences. Stupid, uneducated, yes and I would not be the only one. Do you honestly believe that the majority of Australians go to the poll with a clear idea of what each party is offering and how the system works?

Even you agree that the alternate parties are gaining ground because of dissatisfaction with the major parties. Sure there are a certain number of people weighing the pros and cons but many would be voting for The Greens simply because they are not Labor or Liberal/Nationals.

The Greens solution to climate change is no more than the Democrats claim that they are keeping the *******s honest. They have placed climate change on the political agenda and have made the major parties take notice. They don't have to worry about the finer points of the solution as they will never be in a position to deliver.

You have strong opinions on my statement re: the intelligence or otherwise of the electorate. You believe my opinions are simplistic and stupid, in fact I am stupid and arrogant. The truth is the political parties know I am right they know that certain seats are safe, others are unwinnable, and the rest determine the future leadership. They then tailor their message to win the most votes. If there is a swing to a certain ideology they will try to increase their credentials with political appointments such as Mr Garrett, you don't need a higher education to figure that out.

Regards

Andrew

 

[Aaron Sice]

vote 1 for me.

i'll be the middle ground.

i'll shoot any hippie lefties, and any right wing neanderthals.

then i'll set up a big underground facility, man rockets with nukes and hold the UN to ransom for one meeeeeelion dollars....

 

[Rolf Latham]

xcpet your out by 2 orders of magnitude Aaron

ta
rolf

 

[pennyk]

well I'm certainly left-leaning... but I still wouldn't vote greens.

I think that while the environment is important, its not necessarily the most important thing, and I think there is a huge amount of environmental propaganda... Then I disagree with a whole range of the Green other policies.

I think alot of university students/ graduates vote for greens. and again, I think there is alot of propaganda at universities which encourage people to think that way. When I think back to my sociology classes 20-something years ago, we got fed a whole lot of BS, presented as facts, particularly regarding feminist issues - particularly related to childbirth,and raising kids. When I speak to graduates of those classes who are now having/ had children, so many of the issues raised still make them fearful....... it really was brainwashing in the guise of education. Some of it may be right, but it makes me angry now thinking about how one sided the information was.

I would imagine it is very much like this now in relation to environmental issues.

But in terms of the middle ground, I still think both parties are very "middle ground" compared to overseas. We hardly see any of the really redneck conservatism of the US (even Pauline Hanson doesn't come close), or the socialist elements like Europe. I think we are very fortunate that we are such a down to earth bunch of people who don't like show offs or loonies, for the most part.... it makes for boring, but stable government.

Pen

 

[pennyk]

I'd reckon your spot on Thorpey.

I always saw past the smirk, and just saw a confident, smart and humorous bloke who was great in parliament and could speak as well as Kev.


See ya's.

Geez, I'd hope he could speak better than Kev... I might vote Labor most of the time, but Kev is one of the craziest speakers I know. Sometimes I think he makes George W Bush sound articulate!! The number of made up words in his speeches is amazing!

Pen

 

[WinstonWolfe]

I doubt more than 300 greens voters have any idea what the Greens stand for on issues apart from the environment and boat people.

Do any greens voters know what Greens policy is on :

- Australian Defence Force
- water security for our growing population
- public asset sales to foreigners
- trade tariffs
- job creation
- small business taxation
- welfare
- public versus private school funding
- primary and high school curriculum
- boat people
- our humanitarian migrant intake
- population growth
- housing
- cost shifting in public health care.
- personal and company tax rates
- the ANZUS Treaty... will Brown erode the treaty as NZ green interests did in 1984?
- current account and net foreign debt guidelines.
- sale of mining leases to Chinese companies
- minimum wage
- Christmas Island detention centre
- gambling
- live music
- Indonesia and Timor, China and Tibet, North Korea
- agriculture
- child care
- drugs and substance abuse
- homosexuality


Did you know the greens :

- have an inflexible stance against uranium mining and power.

- want to lower the voting age to 16. why? because they know 16-17 yo swallow naive leftist/Greens policy that much easier. not old enough to drink, but old enough to vote.

- put Australia's entry into war to the public vote everytime....
so who determines when a war vote has to be carried out, and what info do they use to make that decision, and how much of that info gets shared with the electorate? how ludicrous....imagine the greens running Britain when Hitler was becoming a threat. The Greens would have been broadcasting over the radio every piece of intelligence the Brits had on Hitler, so the electorate could determine the risk.....or otherwise asking the electorate to make a decision on inadequate info. Hitler would have been laughing himself unopposed, all the way up the Thames. Fancy trying to mobilize Australia to defend itself with Bob Brown in charge, asking if people would prefer to keep surfing or stop an invasion of the Northern Territory.


IMHO, the greens are a bunch of developmentally retarded mature aged uni students and unionists who have little understanding of anything beyond Bilby habitats, populist global warming science, and Marxism. They are nothing but naive do gooder automaton puppets of extreme left power mongers.

If they really want to save the planet, they should not encourage the west to intervene in the conflicts of underdeveloped nations. The most potent force to save the planet is to drastically reduce the human population. However, this is the Green paradox. they want to make out they care as much about humans as they do the planet. If they weren't so deluded, they'd realize they have to severely compromise on one or the other. But like all weak idealists, compromise isn't a concept they can confront....which is why they just pass all their power to Labor, apart from woolly warm feeling populist issues.

 

[pennyk]

IMHO, the greens are a bunch of developmentally retarded mature aged uni students and unionists who have little understanding of anything beyond Bilby habitats, populist global warming science, and Marxism. They are nothing but naive do gooder automaton puppets of extreme left power mongers.

Sounds like they've got your vote

Pen

 

[lizzie]

Turning away from Liberal or from Abbott.......?

i think this is the case ... just no one they really want to vote for.

it's like the saying "governments lose elections" rather than oppositions win.

 

[Bargain Hunter]

I have yet to see any real information regarding the popularity of The Greens. They hold 5 seats in the senate. Previously The Democrats have held upto 9 seats and no-one has ever considered them a political force.

The total numbers for ALP & LIB has been relatively consistent for many years with swings from one party to the other. The swing that the media talks about has been a shift from the Democrats to Greens, in other words from one middle ground party to another middle ground party (if Greens are considered middle ground).

I do not believe the environment is the burning issue for the electorate that it was in 2007. Economic management is back on the agenda and the party who can convince the voters of their credentials in this regard are likely to be the next government.

Regards

Andrew

 

[topcropper]

The total numbers for ALP & LIB has been relatively consistent for many years with swings from one party to the other. The swing that the media talks about has been a shift from the Democrats to Greens, in other words from one middle ground party to another middle ground party (if Greens are considered middle ground).

That's what this whole thread is about. Greens aren't the middle ground, they are far to the left, just right of communism.

At least the democrats might have voted with the libs, or with labor. They were the middle. The greens go with labor.

The greens did vote down the ETS, but that wasn't because they wanted to go with the libs, it was because the ETS that was already a crazy idea, wasn't crazy enough for the greens.


See ya's.

 

[Bill.L]

Hi all,

PennyK,

Sometimes I think he makes George W Bush sound articulate!!

Fair shake of the sauce bottle love.

WW,

IMHO, the greens are a bunch of developmentally retarded mature aged uni students and unionists who have little understanding of anything......

Cut it out, stop mincing your words and tell us what you really think....

With the upcoming election likely to be in August, we get the selection between budgie smugglers and krudd, with the alternative selection being a pox on both your houses.

Middle ground is a gaping hole at present with many independents likely to get much higher vote percentages, with one or 2 actually getting in.

I cannot vote informal, as it is like saying "I don't care, do you're worst", yet our preferential voting system means I have to end up choosing between the 2 majors in our electorate, no matter whom I voted for as first preference. I wish Costello was still a possibility as then it would have been a no brainer.

bye

 

[Witzl]

perhaps someone should start the "Sensible Middle Party", or something similar, to occupy the void which the Democrats left behind?

The slogan could be "Keeping ultra-conservatism, religion, and socialism out of politics".

I'd vote for them.

 

[buzzlightyear]

perhaps someone should start the "Sensible Middle Party", or something similar, to occupy the void which the Democrats left behind?

The slogan could be "Keeping ultra-conservatism, religion, and socialism out of politics".

I'd vote for them.

It has been a long time since the Democrats (when they were still alive) were a middle of the road party.

With the departure of Don Chipp in the mid80s, the move to left wing party began with Janine Haines.

The Greens & Democrats have been effectively fighting over the same political ground.

 

[topcropper]

It has been a long time since the Democrats (when they were still alive) were a middle of the road party.

With the departure of Don Chipp in the mid80s, the move to left wing party began with Janine Haines.

The Greens & Democrats have been effectively fighting over the same political ground.

Yeah, good point.

I can remember not so long ago thinking the greens and democrats may as well just merge together.
Perhaps when I was refering to the democrats as the middle I was thinking a long time ago?


See ya's.

 

[The Fence]

Geez, I'd hope he could speak better than Kev... I might vote Labor most of the time, but Kev is one of the craziest speakers I know. Sometimes I think he makes George W Bush sound articulate!! The number of made up words in his speeches is amazing!

Pen

He's the only person, apart from Gillard, that can talk for an hour and not tell you anything....????