Australia's political middle ground?

[topcropper]

Country folk are the last bastion of socialism in Australia.

People think its in the universities but that's becuase they've never been to a National Party afternoon tea.

What are you talking about? Your not truely serious are you? OK, your being sarcastic? Joking?

If not, I don't see how the nationals or country people are the last bastion of socialism. We have much lower rates of union membership, much lower rates of people working in the public service.

A much higher percentage of self employed farmers, contractors, labourers, etc.


See ya's.

 

[WinstonWolfe]

Of course; it is fun to get all dressed up and go out riding, so there you go. It's a bit like watching the skiiers on the snow in this regard. I keep looking for the downhill slalom gates that they are on, but alas; nowhere to be seen.

If you want to sort the world out BV, start closer to home.....tell your fat gear freak golfing buddies they won't lose weight riding an electric buggy and talking more 'mine's bigger than yours' crap than they eat at the 19th, and $200 'look at me' golf shirts don't help their swing nor make their belly look smaller.

Rather, tell them they're better losing weight riding a bike.

 

[Aaron Sice]

lycra should be banned.

why lycra should be banned - period.

anyone wearing lycra should be deported, unless they're post-surgery socks or something.

 

[HiEquity]

What are you talking about? Your not truely serious are you? OK, your being sarcastic? Joking?

If not, I don't see how the nationals or country people are the last bastion of socialism. We have much lower rates of union membership, much lower rates of people working in the public service.

A much higher percentage of self employed farmers, contractors, labourers, etc.

Hi TC

While I wouldn't go so far as TF, you know I've made similar comments before. I suggest you read the Nationals policy document in detail to see what TF means. It is littered with "we need to spend more money in regional areas" statements, whether related to health, education, economic development, mining or anything else. It evens says we shouldn't be mining prime agricultural land, seemingly regardless of the value of the mining use...

When it comes to city folk, border protection or any other non-regional issues the Nationals are as right wing as any. However for any regional issues it's all about redistributing wealth from the cities to the country. You won't find statements that all farmers should be left to fend for themselves and fund their own roads, railways and ports like they expect the mining industry to do... or pay the true cost of power or telecommunications in regional Australia. It's all about how regional Australia should be subsidised instead...

Keep in mind, I'm not commenting on the merit of their regional policies - just that they are certainly very left wing on these issues.

 

[Token Funder]

Hi TC

While I wouldn't go so far as TF, you know I've made similar comments before. I suggest you read the Nationals policy document in detail to see what TF means. It is littered with "we need to spend more money in regional areas" statements, whether related to health, education, economic development, mining or anything else. It evens says we shouldn't be mining prime agricultural land, seemingly regardless of the value of the mining use...

When it comes to city folk, border protection or any other non-regional issues the Nationals are as right wing as any. However for any regional issues it's all about redistributing wealth from the cities to the country. You won't find statements that all farmers should be left to fend for themselves and fund their own roads, railways and ports like they expect the mining industry to do... or pay the true cost of power or telecommunications in regional Australia. It's all about how regional Australia should be subsidised instead...

Keep in mind, I'm not commenting on the merit of their regional policies - just that they are certainly very left wing on these issues.

What H.E. said.

Of course, the farmer keen to capitalise the profits whilst socialising the losses is a bit of a stereoptype.

That said, I find stereotypes a time saver

In all seriousness and this coming from someone the last of whom's family left the land 10 years ago and still tries to take the kids to one field day a year, the largesse doled out by State and Federal governments to marginal farmers or marginal farms has been to the detriment of both to taxpayers and productivity of the sector.

Farming is a business first and a lifestyle second and poor businesses and/or poor businesspeople need not be propped up. By way of example, the Exceptional Circumstances Funding regime (and its brethren) does little to encourage marginal businesses to take a self-reliant approach to managing cyclical risks and that money would be better spent any for the benefit of the entire sector (the long-suffering CSIRO springs to mind).

*ducks*

I should say that having enjoyed TC's farm threads, it is pretty apparent to me that he and his family are running - and see themselves as running - an agribusiness and clearly do so well.

 

[The Fence]

I don't often agree with you TF but this post above is spot on for me anyway....well said!

I can personally verify that TC does indeed run a agribusiness of the highest level of professionalism and produces some of the best crops in the world, one could argue, and all dryland farming, no irrigation....!


Your shout TC...

No seriously, farmers 'aint farmers......

 

[WinstonWolfe]

why lycra should be banned - period.

anyone wearing lycra should be deported, unless they're post-surgery socks or something.

8 good reasons not to ban lycra - period.

 

[Bill.L]

Hi all,

Hi Equity,

It evens says we shouldn't be mining prime agricultural land, seemingly regardless of the value of the mining use...

Umm, the words Red Rag and Bull come to mind here

By the way I completely agree with TC in that it is total stupidity to destroy prime farm land for a brief profit in the dirt underneath.

TF,

the largesse doled out by State and Federal governments to marginal farmers or marginal farms has been to the detriment of both to taxpayers and productivity of the sector.

When we get to peak oil (possibly very very soon) and food prices skyrocket, with probable shortages, then you along with all other Australians will become really happy with the decision to keep these places/businesses going.

bye

 

[Token Funder]

TF,



When we get to peak oil (possibly very very soon) and food prices skyrocket, with probable shortages, then you along with all other Australians will become really happy with the decision to keep these places/businesses going.

bye

Far from it. When and if the manure hits the circulating device all our interests will be best served by productive farming land being in the hands of our most efficient farmers rather than a significant portion with parties unable to maintain their businesses without suckling on the government teat.

 

[BayView]

If you want to sort the world out BV, start closer to home.....tell your fat gear freak golfing buddies they won't lose weight riding an electric buggy and talking more 'mine's bigger than yours' crap than they eat at the 19th, and $200 'look at me' golf shirts don't help their swing nor make their belly look smaller.

Rather, tell them they're better losing weight riding a bike.

Absolutely agree.

Have you been frequenting the same golf facilities as me WW?

It's amazing how many younger guys; who are very out of shape; ride in golf carts around the golf course. Disgraceful. They are the ones who should be walking.

Oh yeah; there is definitely the "I'm Tiger Woods' fashion stakes as well; but it's a way smaller percentage than yer average Sunday Warrior bike rider, because most people wear normal clothes that they can wear to golf as well as normal life.

Only a very, very small percentage of golfers trot around in $200 shirts. The majority are normal folk and old pensioners who are tight, and wear yer KMart specials. First hand experience.

Mind you; in golf it seems to fit that people wear nice clothes and are dignified; it's part of the sport's tradition.

But, in riding...

Look, I ride too, but I don't need to look like Lance to do it. Some people seem to need it and there's no race in sight. What's with that?

I reckon if I was sitting out the front of a cafe in Flinders sipping a latte in my lycras I'd feel like a complete di.ck - and part of the penguin parade, and you know that's never gunna be me.

 

[BayView]

8 good reasons not to ban lycra - period.

Now, this is comparing apples with mud.

Here, you are talking about your supreme semi or fully professional (and hot) athletes who are RACING. They have my blessing, and I will help them dress.

Yer average Sunday Warrior is a 55 year old, fat gutted professional type in a $500 outfit on a $2000 bike with nothing to do, and should be smacked around the head.

 

[Bargain Hunter]

I wear lycra and I vote.

 

[wylie]

And here are two photos showing why men wearing lycra should choose a dark colour. Black would be best .

 

[WinstonWolfe]

Look, I ride too, but I don't need to look like Lance to do it. Some people seem to need it and there's no race in sight. What's with that?

BV, try riding 100km+ in street clothes at a 25kph+ average. Then you'll understand lycra. Watch the Tour de France in July, and you'll get an idea of how the clothing has evolved for the purpose.

I used to think there was a pose element in it too, and I suppose if anyone is going to do pose, it is the same loud metro Melbournite galahs that come to Noosa and Gold Coast for hols, telling all in earshot how things are better in Melbourne.

But after seeing a lot of fat guys take up cycling and get over depression and obesity, I ain't going to slam them for having a go. It's the best place for them to be. One of the guys who rides with us is an ex Nam F111 pilot and wing commander. Cycling has helped him manage PTSD and get a new lease on life. He's ripped the weight off and looks 15 years younger.

There's posers in every walk of life, I'd rather people be posing doing something social and healthy, than vice versa. If you want to vent against posers, try street car hoon idiots.

I know there's arrogant wnkers who ride 2 and 3 abreast ALL the time. But when you've had one too many idiots try and side swipe you or run you off the road, you start to care more about staying out a wheel chair than what some neanderthal cares, who wants to catch up with his mates for a beer 30 seconds earlier.

Maybe we don't have the galahs you have down there. But I know rarely is a peloton going to hold me up more than 60 seconds. it's something I can live with.

 

[Bill.L]

Hi TF,

our interests will be best served by productive farming land being in the hands of our most efficient farmers

Todays most efficient farmers are most likely those who use the greatest fuel to human labor ratio, because fuel is cheap. When that ratio no longer is viable, how exactly are you going to eat?

Economic theory is based on cheap energy, you have just shown a great weakness in that theory, assuming that 'most efficient' now will be 'most efficient' in a completely changed environment.

bye

 

[HiEquity]

Umm, the words Red Rag and Bull come to mind here

Guilty as charged... couldn't help meself...

By the way I completely agree with TC in that it is total stupidity to destroy prime farm land for a brief profit in the dirt underneath.

Hmmm.... a nice principle and if the numbers were broadly similar I would agree.

But when we have far more than our own needs in agricultural land and that brief profit represents 100X the profit that could be produced by farming it for at least the next 100 years, the picture starts to look a little different!

It's funny you know - the solutions to peak oil and global warming bear a remarkable resemblence. Yet the concept of carbon taxation, which would help both issues, gets completely short shrift on the grounds of economic impact from a body of people who would otherwise have us leave our real economic bounty in the ground. Just to hold to a principle that agricultural land is "really" worth orders of magnitude more than anyone is actually willing to pay for it.

The same arguments can (and often are by the left leaning parties) be made for health, education, energy, transport, forests etc etc etc. The irony is too much for me...

When we get to peak oil (possibly very very soon) and food prices skyrocket, with probable shortages, then you along with all other Australians will become really happy with the decision to keep these places/businesses going.

Well, the land will still be there and there will be a few people at a loose end capable of farming it?

Are you seriously suggesting a political party that supports loss making ventures in this way "for the common good" is actually right wing? Subsidising farmers is just the same as subsidising clean energy, public transport or anything else and is generally seen as left wing thinking...

Now if the Nationals actually acknowledged they were left wing for regional Australia and right wing for everyone else instead of their current pretence then I would be happy. These issues are the ones that cause the most friction in their coalition with the Libs but they turn a blind eye to keep the bush voters onside.

 

[HiEquity]

Todays most efficient farmers are most likely those who use the greatest fuel to human labor ratio, because fuel is cheap. When that ratio no longer is viable, how exactly are you going to eat?

So perhaps we should put a tax on these cheap yet highly risky fuels to discourage their use?

Wait a minute, where have I heard that before... ?

 

[BayView]

BV, try riding 100km+ in street clothes at a 25kph+ average. Then you'll understand lycra. Watch the Tour de France in July, and you'll get an idea of how the clothing has evolved for the purpose.
Totally agree. But these are the guys/gals who look like they could ride that far.

I used to think there was a pose element in it too, and I suppose if anyone is going to do pose, it is the same loud metro Melbournite galahs that come to Noosa and Gold Coast for hols, telling all in earshot how things are better in Melbourne. Totally agree again. But isn't Melb better anyhoo?

But after seeing a lot of fat guys take up cycling and get over depression and obesity, I ain't going to slam them for having a go. It's the best place for them to be. One of the guys who rides with us is an ex Nam F111 pilot and wing commander. Cycling has helped him manage PTSD and get a new lease on life. He's ripped the weight off and looks 15 years younger.
To those few; I say fantastic achievement.

There's posers in every walk of life, I'd rather people be posing doing something social and healthy, than vice versa. If you want to vent against posers, try street car hoon idiots.
I do all the time. We have a million of the fools down our way in Rosebud. Would love to take their cars off them and make them watch the thing be crushed

I know there's arrogant wnkers who ride 2 and 3 abreast ALL the time. But when you've had one too many idiots try and side swipe you or run you off the road, you start to care more about staying out a wheel chair than what some neanderthal cares, who wants to catch up with his mates for a beer 30 seconds earlier.
Not sure what this one means

Maybe we don't have the galahs you have down there. But I know rarely is a peloton going to hold me up more than 60 seconds. it's something I can live with.
I've not complained about the hold-up factor so far. I know a few people who live near Beach rd around Beaumaris area who do though.

It's an interesting sport.

 

[topcropper]

Country folk are the last bastion of socialism in Australia.

.

You and HE have made some valid points. But you still surely must be exagerating. The last bastion of socialism is in the warfies smoko room, or amongst the Nimbin basket weavers club, or in any school teachers staff room at lunch time.

There needs to be some sort of welfare provided for farmers who aren't making any money. Otherwise everyone else in society can get welfare except a farmer. They need to be encouraged to sell up and leave the industry of course, not given handouts for ever more. Farming is a low return, high capital industry, so I find it hard to believe that any farmer would be allowed to get into a negative asset situation. Most could leave with cash.

Farming has obviously been allowed to fend for itself in this country. Otherwise the farms wouldn't all be so big and efficient. Japan is the example of farmers on welfare. There is now 3 million of them on tiny silly plots costing Japans tax payer 50 billion a year.

I'd also think rural people subsidise the city just as much as the other way around. PPOR capital gains tax free is a prime example. An average rural town dweller retires with a 250k house CGT free. The average city dude ends up with a house worth 600k CGT free. You end up with wealthy city dwellers and multi million dollar CGT free Mcmansions. Total obscene waste of capital, but why wouldn't you? I'd get rid of that rule straight up, but that would go down like a fart in a lift on this forum.


See ya's.

 

[vincenzo]

Total obscene waste of capital, but why wouldn't you? I'd get rid of that rule straight up, but that would go down like a fart in a lift on this forum.

I agree. I've done that once and it wasn't a very good thing