Best way to protect assets’ prior to marriage?

[Raddles]

HI again Windsor
I suppose I should get off your case - but you remind me a bit of my brother who boldly stated that children wouldn't change his life - needless to say - they did.
It is not that easy to work from home with young children around - I do know - having worked on and off from home since 1990 when my first child was born.
I hope the legal practitioner gives you lots of good information. I too have practiced in family law - and worked some years with an accredited specialist who used to undertake work as a child's representative for legal aid in QLD and also a sole practitioner who undertakes mainly property related matters. I don't work in that area anymore because it is extremely stressful dealing with people who are at an emotional low point - and I don't need to thanks to a husband who still enjoys work and investments that are paying their way.
Good luck with it all.
thanks

 

[GoAnna!]

If a partner stays home to take care of the children the monetary loss is greater than number of years times $x. Any significant time out of work effects your long term earning capacity and it takes some time to get back on track. With full custody of children that is next to impossible unless a 24/7nanny was employed. Something many people would not choose to do and most could not afford.

If you see the marriage as a business then there are many roles required to make it run smoothly - children, house, social life, management of finances, investment, cashflow for day-today living etc etc. Some of those roles are financially remibursed (in fact that's the whole point of that roles) while others are ncessary for the general well being of the household but effect the money indirectly - freeing up the partner for work, investments etc.

On the days GoMichael looks after the kids while I fly down to Hobart to oversee a development. Is he contributing? In my eyes his contribution on those days is enormous. Without it the development would not have been possible. Similarly when a child is sick my work tend to come to a grinding holt while Michael can attend to his contractng where he is viewed as 100% reliable as he never takes unexpected days off. Together all the aspects of the business that is our life are shared and juggled.

There seems to be an inbuilt assumption that the only contribution of value is cash. That the wife is somehow an employee who can be reimbursed at the time of divorce. That the wife will not be contributing money wise. What if she starts a business that makes considerable profit (which you did not contribue to in a money sense) do you expect to share in this profit? If you divorce can she keep the bulk of it and give you some small contribution?

 

[wylie]

Windsor, I think you are right to protect the assets you already have, but I think you have a very analytical way of looking at what your future wife might contribute and to say that you may "need to compensate her for lost earnings should you divorce" just sounds so callous. She will be your wife, lover, companion and best friend, not some "paid help" where you can tally up how many hours she spent cooking and cleaning for you.

Curious as to whether you would let her read what you are writing about this? Where is the love?

Protect your assets, but go into this marriage believing that what she brings to the table regarding being a wife and mother means she is giving up money, status and superannuation and any chance of having independent wealth for herself (unless she puts your kids into care as soon as she is out of hospital).

I am sure she is not doing a balance sheet of what you might owe her. If she did, you might find you owe her a lot more than you think.

It all just sounds way too clinical to me.

P.S. While I was writing this GoAnna posted her thoughts, which I agree with wholeheartedly.

 

[Minx]

I'm curious about how your partner feels about all this??

 

[BayView]

Hey LAA, I've heard that one before a few times. It's not the marriage bit that worries me, it's the divorce bit that is frightening.

Mark

I was from a broken home - 2 of them in fact, as a kid and a teenager.

Puts you off, and I was certain I'd never pull the trigger.

Got married at 33, and still very happy 14 years later.

Find the right partner, and then work very hard at making it work.

Piece of cake.

 

[Mr. Fabulous]

Blargh! I had the 'right partner' then it all just fell apart. Being single makes for a much much much less complicated life.

Mark

 

[windsor]

Windsor, I think you are right to protect the assets you already have, but I think you have a very analytical way of looking at what your future wife might contribute and to say that you may "need to compensate her for lost earnings should you divorce" just sounds so callous. She will be your wife, lover, companion and best friend, not some "paid help" where you can tally up how many hours she spent cooking and cleaning for you.

Curious as to whether you would let her read what you are writing about this? Where is the love?

Protect your assets, but go into this marriage believing that what she brings to the table regarding being a wife and mother means she is giving up money, status and superannuation and any chance of having independent wealth for herself (unless she puts your kids into care as soon as she is out of hospital).

I am sure she is not doing a balance sheet of what you might owe her. If she did, you might find you owe her a lot more than you think.

It all just sounds way too clinical to me.

P.S. While I was writing this GoAnna posted her thoughts, which I agree with wholeheartedly.

Wylie no my partner doesn’t know of this. I will state this again, when you have been in a relationship which I have and been threatened that she is going to take everything you had worked so hard for ((Then you will only realise the pain of someone taking your hard earned assets when they contributed nothing)) that’s all I will say on that matter.

As to children which I have one, and have worked from home, so yes its possible to work from home and still take care of your children as I was a stay at home dad for 2yrs.

wylie your post: but I think you have a very analytical way of looking at what your future wife might contribute and to say that you may "need to compensate her for lost earnings should you divorce" just sounds so callous.

If you were in my shoes and lived my life you would do the same, we are all on this forum for one reason to see ways of increasing our wealth, I know it doesn’t sound good, as this is a very sensitive topic and everyone has different views on it and has walked down different roads to get to were they are today. And if my partner was to start a business and make 1billion dollars would I want a share ""NO". My life isn’t about greed it’s about protecting my parents and my hard earned assets.

I will stop there, as I can sense this topic might turn ugly which I don’t want.

 

[wylie]

Wylie no my partner doesn’t know of this. I will state this again, when you have been in a relationship which I have and been threatened that she is going to take everything you had worked so hard for ((Then you will only realise the pain of someone taking your hard earned assets when they contributed nothing)) that’s all I will say on that matter.

I understand where you are coming from, but the woman who tried to take everything is NOT the one you are about to marry. Maybe you need to not judge the new one on the actions of the old one.

As to children which I have one, and have worked from home, so yes its possible to work from home and still take care of your children as I was a stay at home dad for 2yrs.

You are very lucky. Most jobs cannot be done from home.

wylie your post: but I think you have a very analytical way of looking at what your future wife might contribute and to say that you may "need to compensate her for lost earnings should you divorce" just sounds so callous.

If you were in my shoes and lived my life you would do the same, we are all on this forum for one reason to see ways of increasing our wealth, I know it doesn’t sound good, as this is a very sensitive topic and everyone has different views on it and has walked down different roads to get to were they are today. And if my partner was to start a business and make 1billion dollars would I want a share ""NO". My life isn’t about greed it’s about protecting my parents and my hard earned assets.

I will stop there, as I can sense this topic might turn ugly which I don’t want.

Windsor, I agree with your trying to protect the assets you already have, and I would do exactly the same. Just try not to assume this new love of yours is a schemer, just because the old one was. Protect what you already have, but don't try to put so many obstacles in the path of building a life with your future wife. It isn't all about money, and if you split down the track, you should share whatever you have built together in whatever manner is appropriate, depending on how your lives pan out with work and future children.

I wish you well, and hope that you are happy and that the worst never happens for you.

 

[windsor]

Ok, now anyone reading this especially any females please don’t take offence to what I am about to write. I went for my 2nd appointment and this is some info I can share on this forum.

a) I strongly suggest to any male out there who is planning on getting married and is bringing in far more then the female to go and get professional advice along with a Financial Agreement.

b) A Financial Agreement is "NOT" for life even though there is no expiry date, one that is 10yrs old a court wont look at.

c) Your inheritance can be attacked even though it was to state on the Financial Agreement it cant, "it can" family trust or not.

d) Review and sign a financial agreement every 5 yrs if you can.

Hope this helps someone.

 

[Mr. Fabulous]

Ok, now anyone reading this especially any females please don’t take offence to what I am about to write. I went for my 2nd appointment and this is some info I can share on this forum.

a) I strongly suggest to any male out there who is planning on getting married and is bringing in far more then the female to go and get professional advice along with a Financial Agreement.

b) A Financial Agreement is "NOT" for life even though there is no expiry date, one that is 10yrs old a court wont look at.

c) Your inheritance can be attacked even though it was to state on the Financial Agreement it cant, "it can" family trust or not.

d) Review and sign a financial agreement every 5 yrs if you can.

Hope this helps someone.

Based on this information, I don't see how marriage for a person bringing significantly more assets to the table is a worthwhile venture.

Mark

 

[windsor]

Based on this information, I don't see how marriage for a person bringing significantly more assets to the table is a worthwhile venture.

Mark

Hi Mark, If you bring anything into the marriage and I don’t want this to turn out a man verses a woman, but even with a binding financial agreement you would still need to share some of your assets as they can be open for attack later on, it can get very complicated and very messy. There are loop holes and if there are children well you can say goodbye to at least 60% of your assets.

And even with inheritance, its all open for attack. There are many solicitors’ out there if they see a that the other party has a significant amount of assets and the courts are not stupid the solicitor will work for free as legal aid wont represent you.

Another thing I will mention, if you do get married and to have a child and even with a financial agreement, and for arguments sake say you lived in a wealthy suburb like Toorak, you would need to provide that same life style for the other party in case of a divorce and a car for your xpantner to fit into the area.

 

[crc_error]

Rather than going through all this crap, why don't you just not get married.. remain single, and pay for 'professional escort services' every so often, and pay a house cleaner as well.

This way there is no chance of you being ripped off.. since so many marriages fail, you should look at the statistics of failure and accept those.. if you don't want to be a statistic, don't enter a arrangement which has such a high failure rate..

Would you enter a business or investment which such high failure rates?

 

[Dazz]

Would you enter a business or investment which such high failure rates?

Yep - I would...

Having said that - marriage is neither a business nor an investment, and therefore those sifting criteria so eminently employed for the two former categories become quite useless for the third.

House cleaners and knob polishers are all well and good.....but there is a tad more to a good marriage than just that....

 

[Mr. Fabulous]

I was listening to a comedian one time and they said in relation to divorce:

"I don't see the point in getting married. Why not just find someone you hate, buy them a house and save 7 years of your life."

Also, I was watching telly last night and on some show the guy said that married men live ten years longer on average than single men and my immediate thought was 'Single men die on average at 17?'

Mark

 

[crc_error]

Yep - I would...

Having said that - marriage is neither a business nor an investment, and therefore those sifting criteria so eminently employed for the two former categories become quite useless for the third.

House cleaners and knob polishers are all well and good.....but there is a tad more to a good marriage than just that....

then don't try to create it into a business transaction by trying to protect your assets. If your focus is to protect your wealth, don't get married.. if marriage is more important to you.. accept you will need to share your wealth with your partner.

Marriage isn't something you calculate its 'worth' and then try to write up a financial agreement.

 

[windsor]

The divorce rate is very high today.

I remember a while back I went to Toorak to inspect a house and the separated couple with children were not fighting over the children “it was money and how much each party gets” and they told the REA that now isn’t a good time so we had to leave. Never went back.

My solicitor does a lot of family court hearings and has also said that mother in laws cause 50% of problems in marriages which lead to separation followed by divorce.

I would love to get married and settle down, but to know now that my parents hard earned assets can be taken even with a agreement has turned me off. Thats the only part I hate.

 

[wylie]

Ok, now anyone reading this especially any females please don’t take offence to what I am about to write. I went for my 2nd appointment and this is some info I can share on this forum.

a) I strongly suggest to any male out there who is planning on getting married and is bringing in far more then the female to go and get professional advice along with a Financial Agreement.

b) A Financial Agreement is "NOT" for life even though there is no expiry date, one that is 10yrs old a court wont look at.

c) Your inheritance can be attacked even though it was to state on the Financial Agreement it cant, "it can" family trust or not.

d) Review and sign a financial agreement every 5 yrs if you can.

Hope this helps someone.

Why would females take offence, as surely it is the same deal if the woman brings more to the table.

I don't know any woman who has been left in the same "manner to which she was accustomed" after a divorce, even one she has instigated.

Curious to know about the child you already have, and whether your ex-partner is living the life she was when she was with you?

I just take offence at the barbs aimed at "women". We are no more "all the same" than you blokes .

 

[crc_error]

Why would females take offence, as surely it is the same deal if the woman brings more to the table.

I don't know any woman who has been left in the same "manner to which she was accustomed" after a divorce, even one she has instigated.

Curious to know about the child you already have, and whether your ex-partner is living the life she was when she was with you?

I just take offence at the barbs aimed at "women". We are no more "all the same" than you blokes .

because its the females who usually rip off the bloke. Paul McCartney, Greg Norman and other names come to mind.. its rare for a female to enter marriage with more than the guy has. Care to name any famous cases of men ripping off women in divorce?

Any why should your ex-partner be living the same lifestyle as when she was with you? Is it the guys responsibility to support ex-partners for life?

 

[crc_error]

My solicitor does a lot of family court hearings and has also said that mother in laws cause 50% of problems in marriages which lead to separation followed by divorce.

funny you say that, I called off my engagement due to the mother in law to be causing trouble!

 

[wylie]

because its the females who usually rip off the bloke. Paul McCartney, Greg Norman and other names come to mind.. its rare for a female to enter marriage with more than the guy has. Care to name any famous cases of men ripping off women in divorce?

Can we live in the real world please? I am talking real women here, not celebrities. But what about Madonna (first marriage), Britney Spears, plenty of others.

Any why should your ex-partner be living the same lifestyle as when she was with you? Is it the guys responsibility to support ex-partners for life?

It was windsor who said that in one of his recent posts. Have another read maybe. He spoke about having to provide for an ex-partner to still live in Toorak if that is what she was used to, or something like that.

Again, I don't know any "real" women who are slightly able to live in the same style as when they were married. Most are much worse off.

I know that for every story I have about a woman having been ripped off, you guys will have another story about a guy having been "screwed" so really not worth debating, is it?