Post-op care is mandatory and for private patients, is included in the operation fee. No further fees can be charged for dealing with any post-op issues for patients who have been charged a private fee for the operation or their health fund. However, most post-op visits are very rapid as you would expect a very low complication rate. Seeing 25 post op patients would only take about five hours (half a day) and some patients don't turn up. So if you spend half a day operating on 25 cataracts, you have to factor in half a day for post-op visits wherein no fee is charged. So you still have four full days in the working week left.
Doctors and their Income
- Thread starter china
- Start date
Post-op care is mandatory and for private patients, is included in the operation fee. No further fees can be charged for dealing with any post-op issues for patients who have been charged a private fee for the operation or their health fund. However, most post-op visits are very rapid as you would expect a very low complication rate. Seeing 25 post op patients would only take about five hours (half a day) and some patients don't turn up. So if you spend half a day operating on 25 cataracts, you have to factor in half a day for post-op visits wherein no fee is charged. So you still have four full days in the working week left.
With respect to Geoff's post -
China, as a member since April 2011, what have you learned and achieved in property investing in that time?
Everyone on here seems to be moving forward, and you seem to only be moving sideways.
Maybe you are procastinating, or have an underlying condition that we dont know about holding you back, and you are compensating by arguing futile and countless points that in retrospect people are only passing time responding to, in between property investing of course!
pinkboy
How does a "late" person generate a feed?
There has been a lot of valuable information learnt from this forum regarding property investing and other matters associated with investing in general. I find case histories particularly interesting and sometimes inspirational.
I think it is a great educational resource. Hopefully and eventually, I would like to translate it into profitable investment activities. But in between reading, it is great to be able to contribute to discussion on certain esoteric, selected topics such as doctors.
More wine for me please.
My Concern with the thread is..
As a Opthalmologist/Surgeon etc you can earn 7 figures
Be a Doctor!
you are talking about a narrow spectum of clinicians in the "glory days" as you put them.
Todays juniors and medical students will fight long and hard for a career with less certainty, less employment prospects, less renumeration and less choice.
Protectionism or limited training positions (there is truth in both positions when applied to any medical college) for specialties are the rate limiting step. This will increase as market forces bite. They are biting and all the colleges are running scared.
If the thread touts jumping on the print money here! medical bandwagon... (and i believe it does..)
then it is misleading.
Be assured that there are doctors who do medicine for the percieved cash return. The dissolusionment of the practicalities of the lifestyle and the underestimation of the study and commitment required to undergo quaternary education in the specialty of thier choice culls many.
This will only increase as the future competition grows.
you are decades too late even as a current training registrar to get rich quick by medicine. Unless you are part of a very very small minority.
But you are never too late to have a fulfilling and interesting career in whatever you choose. Medical or Non-medical.
Just choose it for the right reasons. Pick your advice from reputable sources.
and not, (for a random example) medical career advice from someone in a service industry.
Good Evening to you and best wishes on your investment journey.
Cheers
Xactly
As a Opthalmologist/Surgeon etc you can earn 7 figures
Be a Doctor!
you are talking about a narrow spectum of clinicians in the "glory days" as you put them.
Todays juniors and medical students will fight long and hard for a career with less certainty, less employment prospects, less renumeration and less choice.
Protectionism or limited training positions (there is truth in both positions when applied to any medical college) for specialties are the rate limiting step. This will increase as market forces bite. They are biting and all the colleges are running scared.
If the thread touts jumping on the print money here! medical bandwagon... (and i believe it does..)
then it is misleading.
Be assured that there are doctors who do medicine for the percieved cash return. The dissolusionment of the practicalities of the lifestyle and the underestimation of the study and commitment required to undergo quaternary education in the specialty of thier choice culls many.
This will only increase as the future competition grows.
you are decades too late even as a current training registrar to get rich quick by medicine. Unless you are part of a very very small minority.
But you are never too late to have a fulfilling and interesting career in whatever you choose. Medical or Non-medical.
Just choose it for the right reasons. Pick your advice from reputable sources.
and not, (for a random example) medical career advice from someone in a service industry.
Good Evening to you and best wishes on your investment journey.
Cheers
Xactly
This thread has brought out a lot of opinions. I don't think China is going to change his mind - even faced with now 3 Drs stories and others tales of alternate ways to generate an income stream.
The 7 figure doctors he talks are probably 0.1% of all Doctors in Australia. The majority of the specialties he refers to as the high money makers are enormously competitive to get into. In my area they won't look at you if you have not got a PhD for ophthalmology and for others you will need to be published.
I have a friend who is nearing the end of his training in orthopaedics - he took 5 years of trying to get onto the program. He's about to sit the final exams for the second time. He's done about 15 years out of med school.
I know others who it's cost their marriages due to long working hours and postings away to rural hospitals. Would imagine divorce doesn't do anything for the wealth prospects!
Where I work it's well known that a particular surgeon sits down any residents contemplating surgery to try to talk them out of it.
Even general practice these days is getting competitive. As already said it won't be long till there isn't enough hospital jobs to go around for interns/residents. This will likely overall keep salaries of Drs down in the future. Hence, as well as getting through my training in a timely manner, I also plan to have some income producing assets such as property and shares.
PS: Xactly - agree with all you say - except the 24 hours shifts are not all gone. I am regularly rostered oncall for 24 hours and commonly work 18 and sometimes up to 24 hours in a row continuously - covering 2 separate hospitals (NSW).
The 7 figure doctors he talks are probably 0.1% of all Doctors in Australia. The majority of the specialties he refers to as the high money makers are enormously competitive to get into. In my area they won't look at you if you have not got a PhD for ophthalmology and for others you will need to be published.
I have a friend who is nearing the end of his training in orthopaedics - he took 5 years of trying to get onto the program. He's about to sit the final exams for the second time. He's done about 15 years out of med school.
I know others who it's cost their marriages due to long working hours and postings away to rural hospitals. Would imagine divorce doesn't do anything for the wealth prospects!
Where I work it's well known that a particular surgeon sits down any residents contemplating surgery to try to talk them out of it.
Even general practice these days is getting competitive. As already said it won't be long till there isn't enough hospital jobs to go around for interns/residents. This will likely overall keep salaries of Drs down in the future. Hence, as well as getting through my training in a timely manner, I also plan to have some income producing assets such as property and shares.
PS: Xactly - agree with all you say - except the 24 hours shifts are not all gone. I am regularly rostered oncall for 24 hours and commonly work 18 and sometimes up to 24 hours in a row continuously - covering 2 separate hospitals (NSW).
xactly - exactly!! You must have been writing at the same time as me. I'd like to give you kudos if I can figure out how to do it!
This is all you got from Rolf's post?
Obviously the organisation (called Jim Rohn) is a legacy the heirs have continued to run as a biz............
More to the point is the value of time as Rolf was alluding to.
The posts above by xactly are not only insightful as they come from someone in the profession, they are also what I hear and see from the numerous friends and former colleagues I have who are medicos in various guises. Some are GP's and others are specialist physicians or surgeons.
Before the comeback is that................"they mustn't be running their medical clinics in a biz like manner or they are no good at their jobs", I concur that the halcyon days for what was traditional mainstream medicine (general or specialised) are over. There will be some exceptions, however ostensibly the competition for customers/patients is fierce and the red tape and auditing required to have accreditation (which has nothing to do with skills as a practitioner) and other paper trail satisfaction activities is prohibitive by way of costs and staff time.
Kudos to xactly for telling it xactly how it is.
Then empty your glass. Listen to people rather than trying to tell them everything.
I do. The best take home message for me thus far from this forum is what if I had not saved religiously for eleven years to buy PPOR in cash and had done some property investment during this time period. It is frightening to think that I may be retired by now with my 2-3 mil investible assets criteria. But then I was in my early 20s when I started earning income and did not think too much about investing/retirement/financial freedom/doctors back then.
I don't agree with this comment at all. Until recently I worked at a top tier law firm and a lunchtime conversation of property ownership came up when one junior lawyer was lamenting that he and his partner couldn't afford to purchase a property. At the time I was earning half what he was earning, and around 1/4 that of some of the others in the room, yet my net wealth and gross ownership value was many times that of anyone else there. Each of them earn over 200K yet they have lifestyles that come with the job - having to rent close to work as they are always at the office, buying expensive work clothes, lots of eating out at fancy restaurants, expensive holidays away to locations where blackberrys don't work. Their attitude? I work damn hard for my money, why not enjoy my life rather than create a lifestyle for the future.
A few years back I had a conversation with a partner of the firm I was leaving. He said I was "lucky" I could leave my job rather than being chained to it. He earned over 1mil per year but had to live in the Mosman mansion, have the kids in private school, stud fees for the daughter's pony etc etc etc. He said he can't afford to buy an investment property.
So what's to say that those 1mil doctors will be wealthy once they retire?
There is no direct correlation between income and wealth. It is often noted that the top 1% of income earners do not always end up in the top 1% of people in terms of net wealth.
However, it cannot hurt to be in the top 1% of income earners. I think the Mosman mansion would offer a great lifestyle and have excellent resale value over time, once paid off after a year or two. The sale of the typical Mosman PPOR alone (3-4mil) would catapult someone into the upper tiers of net wealth. It is also CGT exempt.
Furthermore, it is great to be able to send children to private school and offer them pony opportunities. That in itself is a great investment, that people of less income cannot offer their children.
