Getting a Uni degree

Mr Fab
Good thread, I like hearing what people have to say here:)

I never tell my children what they should do and what is the best way forward - degree/no degree because I know it wont matter either way.

If its financial success that one strives for then it will come down to much more than this.

MTR:)
 
image.jpg
Beats Melbourne atm
..
 
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ok180 said:
With all that you would still be considered crazy over there if you did not go to college. Go look at what a trade earns over there compared to here. Those are the jobs for the Mexicans. They get paid about $3 an hour.

Back to Australia. Here is something interesting for you: http://www.seek.com.au/150kjobs?cid=sk:main:au:tab:150k

Go see how many of those 150k jobs do not have a degree as mandatory.
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No licensed tradesman (e.g. plumber, electrician, mechanic) earns $3 per hour in America. That is below minimum wage in all states. Mexicans earning $3 aren't qualified tradespeople - they are illegal immigrants working for illegal wages because they don't have the required papers to work within the system.

You are right that blue collar jobs pay better here than in America but there is a world of difference between the salaries of an illegal Mexican immigrant working on a building site and a qualified tradesperon in the US. Another thing to consider is that the cost of living is also lower in America than here.

I did a quick google of plumbers' salaries in America. The first result was a Time article from 2008. Including pipelayers, plumbers, pipefitters and steamfitters, the average salary in 2008 was $46,000 in USD (about $49,000 in AUD). Plumbers with experience who work for themselves can earn $100,000 upwards. In more affluent cities such as NYC, LA and Chicago, salaries of $250,000 are possible.

http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1851673,00.html

The above salaries are better than what many college graduates are earning in the US and they don't have a 100k student loan to pay off.

Though trades may pay better here than in America, when the cost of living is taken in consideration, it's not too far off from the pay of an Australian tradie. Of course, it depends on the trade, some pay better than others.

You're right that Americans are obsessed with college education. America has always been an aspirational country with each generation wanting better for their children. College was seen as a means of improving oneself - the salaries of college graduates were higher and the class ladder could be climbed. With increasing unemployment and exorbitant school fees, even Americans are starting to question the wisdom of encouraging every teenager to attend to college. The dialogue now exists in the mainstream whereas before the GFC it was more of a fringe concern.

I agree there aren't many jobs advertised on seek.com.au with 150k salaries that don't require a degree. The highest paying jobs are usually reserved for those with university degrees. However, most university graduates will never earn 150k. With more white collar jobs being offshored and university fees set to increase, I do question the logic of encouraging the majority of our young to attend university. But then, what should we encourage them to do? They can't all do trades. No matter what they do, there won't be enough jobs for everyone (which, to me, is the real concern).
 
Fifth said:
The above salaries are better than what many college graduates are earning in the US and they don't have a 100k student loan to pay off.
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Technical colleges can be very expensive in the US - often more than uni degrees.

http://studyusa.com/en/schools/categories/1/2-year-community-colleges/

The average student loan debt for a 4 year degree in the US is about 25k. We're the ones who'll be paying 100k soon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_tuition_in_the_United_States#Student_loan_debt

"In the 2007-2008 National Postsecondary Student Aid Study (NPSAS), the median cumulative debt among graduating 4-year undergraduate students was $19,999; one quarter borrowed $30,526 or more, and one tenth borrowed $44,668 or more. In 2010, the average debt of graduates of 4 year nonprofit universities across the country was $25,250"
 
My 2c/Story.

I come from a family of academics. My Dad is a Microbiologist, one sister is a Physiotherapist and another sister is a Biochemist/Biostatistical scientist.

I did all the things to get into uni, with a good enough score to pick from just about anything, but at the end of the day I wanted to do a trade for no other reason originally than to work outside and being able to surf after work and figured everyone always needs tradesmen.

Completed an apprenticeship, and did my builders reg diploma at nights purely because HIA offered it free to their apprentices. I then hurt my back, took an office gig, and worked up from there after I really started to enjoy costings, management and problem solving.

Moral of the story is if you have the ambition and intelligence, you could start anywhere and still be what you personally consider to be successful if you work hard and have a clear goal. I could have ended up in my current job via uni also, just took a slightly different route.
 
Mr. Fabulous said:
Hi Wirra, if I had my time over, I would have done a trade, for sure. I will be encouraging my nephew to ditch school ASAP and get a trade.
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Hey Mr Fab.

Aslong as that's what they want to do with their Career :)

My Opinion Stick to the "Fix-It" Trades with some specialties:

Electrical: (Power generation, Instrumentation, High Voltage)
Mechanical: (Hydraulics, Heavy Diesel, Turbines.)
Boilermaking/Welding: (Pressure Welding, Pipe Welding)
Plumbing: (Any Gas Repairs and Installations)
Carpentry/Building: (Construction, Cabinetry)

These trades will allow you to work in the cities, Construction etc and some on that list will allow you to venture into oil/gas, aviation, energy sector.

Being Diverse in your trade career, will be very valuable long-term.
 
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I haven't read all the replies but I agree that Uni is a waste of time and money - unless you need to be a doctor, lawyer or dentist etc.

I think I have 4 degrees, 2 bachelors and 2 masters and a few diplomas etc. All this has probably cost me more than $100,000..

If I had my time again I would leave school at 16 and become an apprentice builder, then study law part time at night while building my own homes until I qualified as aa lawyer.
 
cimbom said:
Technical colleges can be very expensive in the US - often more than uni degrees.

http://studyusa.com/en/schools/categories/1/2-year-community-colleges/

The average student loan debt for a 4 year degree in the US is about 25k. We're the ones who'll be paying 100k soon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_tuition_in_the_United_States#Student_loan_debt

"In the 2007-2008 National Postsecondary Student Aid Study (NPSAS), the median cumulative debt among graduating 4-year undergraduate students was $19,999; one quarter borrowed $30,526 or more, and one tenth borrowed $44,668 or more. In 2010, the average debt of graduates of 4 year nonprofit universities across the country was $25,250"
Click to expand...

If done through a apprenticeship, there is no need to go to technical college to do a trade. You get paid (albeit not much) to learn.

Also, community colleges are very inexpensive relative to university and are not 'often' more. In the wiki link it states:

In 2012-13, the average cost of annual tuition in the United States ranged from $3,131 for public two-year institutions (community colleges) to $29,056 for private four-year institutions.
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Average student loans in the US are much lower than I thought, thanks for the link. They are on par with Australia (though not for long with our fees set to rise).
 
Have to agree with Mr Fabulous, a degree is a total waste of time. So is all that book lurnin' stuff. It fills your head with silly ideas that you can achieve your goals, punch above your weight etc.

I am all for multi-skilling, let's get back to the barber doing minor surgery, the butcher undertaking amputations, journeyman carpenters designing buildings by trial and error with many deaths in the process.

Let's get back to basics with a standard wage across the board, affordable housing for all, one child per couple, one dwelling per family, the right to select the bride residing with the patriarch, provision of tithings to the Lord of the manor. Whilst we're at it, let's dump the school system all together after all teachers are overpaid and under educated and full of silly ideas.

We'll get rid of all the ingunears what makes idjiot box werk and get back to basix making the land productive with manual labour. For fertilizers we'll use our own No.2's wot don't go into the riverz.

Candles out at 20:00 & everyone up at snowrise

Now get ready for bed my comrades.
 
Private universities generally have extremely generous scholarship and student loan arrangements though. If your family is average income, you can go to Harvard, for example, for a similar cost as a technical school.
 
Scott No Mates said:
Have to agree with Mr Fabulous, a degree is a total waste of time. So is all that book lurnin' stuff. It fills your head with silly ideas that you can achieve your goals, punch above your weight etc.

I am all for multi-skilling, let's get back to the barber doing minor surgery, the butcher undertaking amputations, journeyman carpenters designing buildings by trial and error with many deaths in the process.

Let's get back to basics with a standard wage across the board, affordable housing for all, one child per couple, one dwelling per family, the right to select the bride residing with the patriarch, provision of tithings to the Lord of the manor. Whilst we're at it, let's dump the school system all together after all teachers are overpaid and under educated and full of silly ideas.

We'll get rid of all the ingunears what makes idjiot box werk and get back to basix making the land productive with manual labour. For fertilizers we'll use our own No.2's wot don't go into the riverz.

Candles out at 20:00 & everyone up at snowrise

Now get ready for bed my comrades.
Click to expand...

Oh, that is gold! Love it.
So how do you give kudos?
 
Terry_w said:
I haven't read all the replies but I agree that Uni is a waste of time and money - unless you need to be a doctor, lawyer or dentist etc.

I think I have 4 degrees, 2 bachelors and 2 masters and a few diplomas etc. All this has probably cost me more than $100,000..

If I had my time again I would leave school at 16 and become an apprentice builder, then study law part time at night while building my own homes until I qualified as aa lawyer.
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But Terry, just makes me laugh, so do you have Dr in the front of your name, and if so does that make a difference??? Me.... who has nothing:( but suddenly feeling very secure:p That's it as the Germans say - schadenfreude
 
cimbom said:
Private universities generally have extremely generous scholarship and student loan arrangements though. If your family is average income, you can go to Harvard, for example, for a similar cost as a technical school.
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Harvard scholarships are extremely competitive and are only available to very high achievers. Anyone can attend community college.

Sorry, just to clarify, I didn't intend to compare the cost of community colleges to private colleges, rather I meant to compare community colleges to 4 year colleges in general (both public and private). The sentence I quoted just happened to mention private colleges.

Community colleges cost on average $3000 per year and the degree only takes 2 years. That's a grand total of $6000 which is cheaper than any other option barring a scholarship (which are limited). You said that community colleges can be very expensive and are 'often' more expensive than 4 year colleges which simply isn't true. Such cases would be rare.

Anyway, I was talking about trades done through apprenticeships, not community colleges.
 
There are some fields which definitely do require a degree but I do wonder if we're doing a disservice to ourselves by making university the norm.

It feels that the bachelor degree has become the new high school certificate which was the new year 10 once upon a time. When it becomes the expected minimum qualification, it no longer gives any real edge because it's so common. When bachelor's degrees become too common, the master's will be the new standard (this is already happening). What then? A PhD? It's like a ponzi scheme.

I agree with Mr Fabulous that too many jobs require degrees when the skills could easily be learnt on the job.

My husband (late 20s) took a more traditional path and worked his way up in his company and now works in IT in a role usually reserved for degree holders. He is one of the few people in his department without a degree, many have master's degrees. I fail to see what the nett benefit to society would have been had he taken several years off full time work to study for a degree (racking up a debt for himself and costing the taxpayer money as he, like most, would not have paid full fee) to learn skills he easily learnt on the job whilst getting paid.

Unfortunately, many companies have little interest in those without degrees and it's increasingly impossible for those starting out to work their way up as a lot of the starter roles (data entry, call centres) are being offshored.

So far as people in IT (and similar occupations) not being as worried about offshoring because they're more upwardly mobile and will easily find something else, I don't think that's entirely true. I know the people my husband works with (including those with premium educations) are very worried about the future of IT and their job security.
 
cimbom said:
Sorry, I should've said financial aid rather than scholarship. The below is for a household income of 70k. Note that this figure also includes accommodation, meals, books, etc.

Your estimated scholarship $54,950
Your cost $7,400
---
Cost to Parents $2,800
Student Summer Work $1,600
Student Term-time Work $3,000

https://college.harvard.edu/financial-aid/net-price-calculator
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Ok, that's actually very reasonable. Extremely reasonable.

Obviously it's not an option for everybody, most will never achieve the grades or have the connections required to get into an Ivy League, but it's probably the best value for money given the reputation and CV brownie points. I concede your point.

Ugh, we'll have students paying 10 times that for a 'global top 1000' university soon.
 
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