Home Schooling (split off from Early Retirement thread)

[kathryn d]

Well I think wobbycarly is right. Most people think that what they are doing is correct, otherwise why would they be doing it? I am perfectly capable (in pure academic terms) of teaching my future children the entire curriculum from prep to year 12 but that doesn't mean I would do so. I guess OKFFW is getting a soul boner from being a rebel and not conforming to the doctrine of institutionalised schooling?

I'm amazed OKFFW's parents had the time and patience to homeschool such a large family.


I am fascinated with large families.

 

[OKFFW]

Well I think wobbycarly is right. Most people think that what they are doing is correct, otherwise why would they be doing it? I am perfectly capable (in pure academic terms) of teaching my future children the entire curriculum from prep to year 12 but that doesn't mean I would do so. I guess OKFFW is getting a soul boner from being a rebel and not conforming to the doctrine of institutionalised schooling?

Wow it seems odd that so many supposedly emotionally well adjusted and superbly educated people who went through the regular schooling system and who claim homeschooling produces emotionally stunted and poorly educated individuals have to resort to veiled insults towards me rather than discuss the issue at hand. What a shining example of how the regular school system teaches one to handle those with differing views.

It has nothing to do with being a rebel and not conforming or getting a soul boner. I, myself, for no other reason than excessive distance to the nearest physical school making it impossible to attend, was schooled through the Correspondence School of NSW which is a government run, accredited school that follows the set curriculum. So hardly an example of rebellion.

My only point through out this thread is that the stereotypical negative generalizations that most of you are spouting off are far from the truth in the majority of cases.

However, it is obvious that you all believe you know everything there is to know because you've read some news stories about religious and/or anti establishment zealots and have maybe even met one or two home schooled people that didn't excel in every area of life and have no interest in the reality of the situation. That being the case I will now stop trying to "shut down" the discussion and leave you all to the free exchange of unsubstantiated negative rumour, myth and generalizations.

 

[Ideo]

I had a kid who was home schooled for primary levels in my year at high school. His sister was 2 years below us.

A more socially ill adapted person I can't imagine. Had no idea of how to interact with others. It was actually quite embarrassed to be around him. Which was sad as he was quite a nice person. Just completely socially ill adjusted.

I ran into him a few months back. Since going to uni and living in a share house, away from his domineering parents, he has finally matured into someone who can function in society. He has however been ostracised from his family for not fitting into their narrow definition of what is acceptable.

 

[wylie]

I've just found this thread and thought I'd mention the two glaringly obvious things that nobody seems to have touched on.

As a mother of reasonable intelligence, I couldn't wait for the time when I had some "me time" back to myself. With seven years separating our three boys, and children who didn't sleep much in the day, I could no more have home schooled them than fly.

To think that I was to be "teacher" all day to three boys from when the oldest was six to when the youngest finished high school would have been 19 years. No thank you. When the oldest was starting school, I still had a toddler and a baby. Plenty of time through the day to be a teacher.... NOT!

Sending them off to school gave them an education but it also gave me back time to refresh through the day, and be a better, less frustrated mother than if they were with me all day.

The other thing nobody has mentioned is that for those who don't have to home school or use distance education due to not being physically able to get to a school, the mother is probably working on a property or similar, and in the city, the mother is more than likely working to pay a mortgage. How does one home school when one is not actually at home due to having to be at work?

I'm not for or against it, but personally would have zero confidence in being able to teach my own children what they are learning at school.

 

[geoffw]

Agree Wylie- especially the last sentence.

I did well academically. But I was hopeless at trying to communicate high school level stuff- especially mathematics which I loved but my kids loathed. I would have been a poor teacher.

 

[OKFFW]

I probably shouldn't bother but I guess I'm a sucker for punishment......

I've just found this thread and thought I'd mention the two glaringly obvious things that nobody seems to have touched on.

As a mother of reasonable intelligence, I couldn't wait for the time when I had some "me time" back to myself. With seven years separating our three boys, and children who didn't sleep much in the day, I could no more have home schooled them than fly.

To think that I was to be "teacher" all day to three boys from when the oldest was six to when the youngest finished high school would have been 19 years. No thank you. When the oldest was starting school, I still had a toddler and a baby. Plenty of time through the day to be a teacher.... NOT!

Sending them off to school gave them an education but it also gave me back time to refresh through the day, and be a better, less frustrated mother than if they were with me all day.

All valid concerns.

However, just because you can't imagine being able to do it yourself that is not an indictment of the home schooling process or those that do it. I can't imagine studying and training for 10 years or so to become a doctor. I'm not going to use my assumed inability to do that to be some sort of evidence that it shouldn't or couldn't be done by anyone.

The other thing nobody has mentioned is that for those who don't have to home school or use distance education due to not being physically able to get to a school, the mother is probably working on a property or similar, and in the city, the mother is more than likely working to pay a mortgage. How does one home school when one is not actually at home due to having to be at work?

Seriously? This is a serious attempt at an argument against home schooling?

I don't know of any people who choose to home school their children whilst having no one at home to actually do the teaching. Seems blatantly obvious that me that if no one is home to actually do the teaching then they would not try to home school.

I'll await Dazz's interjection asking you to provide evidence of your suggestion there are people out there that do home school their children whilst not being home in order to do the teaching.

I'm not for or against it, but personally would have zero confidence in being able to teach my own children what they are learning at school.

Once again, valid concern. If you have no confidence in your ability to teach your children what the school would then I suggest it is fantastic that you are not inclined to try it.

Your inability to do so is not evidence that it can't or shouldn't be done. Nor is it evidence that the process of home schooling is flawed or produces uneducated and emotionally stunted individuals.

 

[kathryn d]

I probably shouldn't bother but I guess I'm a sucker for punishment......

I'm happy you are willing to give us your opinion.

I read a lot of "frugal" blogs, and many of LDS religions homeschool.They all seem to have very large families (6+kids)

I was very happy when our 4 children were ready to head off to school.For me it was a milestone they reached. It had nothing to do of wanting to get rid of them for the day. I also wouldn't be able to homeschool.

When in school, kids are there for 6 hours.
I assume, homeschooling lessons don't last that long. There probably isn't the constant homework and absolutely horrendous school projects required...which is usually done by the parents...just helping, of course.

 

[wylie]

I probably shouldn't bother but I guess I'm a sucker for punishment......


All valid concerns.

However, just because you can't imagine being able to do it yourself that is not an indictment of the home schooling process or those that do it.

Could you please point out in my post where I even suggested this???? You are jumping to wrong conclusions on what I have said.

I can't imagine studying and training for 10 years or so to become a doctor. I'm not going to use my assumed inability to do that to be some sort of evidence that it shouldn't or couldn't be done by anyone.

Seriously? This is a serious attempt at an argument against home schooling?

If you are suggesting I do some sort of study in order to school my kids, then when exactly would I do that. When my toddler is playing and my baby is breastfeeding? Or should I do that before I become pregnant, just in case?

I'm rather amazed at what you have read into my answer. I did state (read my post again if you need to) that I'm not for or against it, but I have no interest in doing it. Even if I wanted to, with three children spread over seven years, the only way I could get one on one time with one child would be to drug the other two. I couldn't even go to the toilet on my own. I'm assuming you are a man? Do you have any idea what it is like not to be able to shower or use a toilet without an audience for years on end?

I don't know of any people who choose to home school their children whilst having no one at home to actually do the teaching. Seems blatantly obvious that me that if no one is home to actually do the teaching then they would not try to home school.

I'll await Dazz's interjection asking you to provide evidence of your suggestion there are people out there that do home school their children whilst not being home in order to do the teaching.

Well, how many women work? You are fast losing credibility.

Once again, valid concern. If you have no confidence in your ability to teach your children what the school would then I suggest it is fantastic that you are not inclined to try it.

Your inability to do so is not evidence that it can't or shouldn't be done. Nor is it evidence that the process of home schooling is flawed or produces uneducated and emotionally stunted individuals.

I didn't say it can't or shouldn't be done. Did you learn to read at home?

 

[OKFFW]

I'm happy you are willing to give us your opinion.

I read a lot of "frugal" blogs, and many of LDS religions homeschool.They all seem to have very large families (6+kids)

Just for the record and in case there is any misconception, my family is what would generally be referred to as non practicing Catholic. We were all baptized and growing up we went to church at Christmas and Easter. The 13 children in total is because mum and dad always wanted lots of children and has nothing to do with being Catholic. In fact mum says she always dreamed of having 11 boys when she was growing up. The first 10 children were all boys, they then had 2 girls and the final child was another boy. So she did eventually get her dream.

I was very happy when our 4 children were ready to head off to school.For me it was a milestone they reached. It had nothing to do of wanting to get rid of them for the day. I also wouldn't be able to homeschool.

Frankly I think one of the reasons, and this is just my opinion, that most parents, if they are completely honest with themselves, love the idea of school is because it does give them a break from their children. There is nothing wrong with that either.

When in school, kids are there for 6 hours.
I assume, homeschooling lessons don't last that long. There probably isn't the constant homework and absolutely horrendous school projects required...which is usually done by the parents...just helping, of course.

The average would be about 4 to 4.5 hours per day. When the teaching is one on one or in a group of only a few and is very individualized and any help the child needs is available without having to stand in line and wait for the teacher to get finished with anywhere from 10-30 other people the amount of time required to cover the same content is greatly reduced.

As for homework, when you think about it, home schooling is nothing but homework is it?

Seriously though, on that topic, there is more and more research coming out that shows that excessive amounts of homework not only does not provide greater learning outcomes but is actually detrimental to the development of children. There are some schools now trialling a system of no homework and many others that are greatly reducing the amount of homework given.

School projects done mostly by the parents? Surely such a thing would not happen in the regular school system? Seems counter productive to send your child off to be schooled by a system so superior to home schooling only to do the school work for the child.

 

[locko24]

I attended a private school until year ten, then public for the final two. I currently drive a semi.
My younger brother was home schooled. He's currently a manager of a large hospital in Sydney.
Make of that what you will!

 

[kathryn d]

School projects done mostly by the parents? Surely such a thing would not happen in the regular school system? Seems counter productive to send your child off to be schooled by a system so superior to home schooling only to do the school work for the child.

I never said regular school was superior. I said I thought the kids may be more insulated.
Where my kids went to school, projects were helped by the parents, a lot.

Homework was a constant chore for them, that I refused to nag or discipline if they didn't do it.
Being in school for 6 hrs a day, and then each teacher figured an additional 30 minutes was appropriate.

 

[wylie]

I attended a private school until year ten, then public for the final two. I currently drive a semi.
My younger brother was home schooled. He's currently a manager of a large hospital in Sydney.
Make of that what you will!

Do you "really" think your career paths were influenced by how you were schooled? Just curious.

Our kids went private (not a high end private school, but chosen for its inclusive and non-snobby vibe and excellent reputation). I truly believe "most" children will either do well or do badly despite the school that is chosen for them.

Children can suffer badly from being bullied in private and public schools.

Great leaders have come through ordinary schools.

People make of their lives what they will (barring those who are so badly brought up that they are so influenced and/or scarred emotionally by their dropkick parents, and sending those kids to a private school would not help anyway).

 

[locko24]

Do you "really" think your career paths were influenced by how you were schooled? .

Yes.

Though I earn way more than him, and he only has a ppor. So not all bad

 

[OKFFW]

Could you please point out in my post where I even suggested this???? You are jumping to wrong conclusions on what I have said.

Well then my apologies for the wrong conclusion. I guess the start of your post.......

"I've just found this thread and thought I'd mention the two glaringly obvious things that nobody seems to have touched on."

Led me to believe that your comments regarding these two "glaringly obvious things that nobody seems to have touched on" would be in reference to more than just your own personal feelings about your own personal situation. Rather, they would be as general comments in relation to the home schooling issue and the people who do or do not choose to home school.

I mean, if your comments are regarding your own personal situation and were truly not meant as general comments about homeschooling then I fail to see how they can be called "glaringly obvious" since none of us know your personal situation.

However, assuming you really did mean your comments to be nothing more than your opinion about your own personal situation which is apparently "glaringly obvious" to everyone here who have never met you and they were not meant as general remarks about something that might be argued to actually be "glaringly obvious" I guess I will say thank you for sharing the fact that you don't think you could home school and that you were thankful to have some you time when you could send your kids off to school. Not sure exactly what that is supposed to add to the discussion but thanks anyway.

If you are suggesting I do some sort of study in order to school my kids, then when exactly would I do that. When my toddler is playing and my baby is breastfeeding? Or should I do that before I become pregnant, just in case?

I'm not suggesting that at all. Please point out in my post where I said that? You are jumping to the wrong conclusion!

I said that the fact I can't see myself doing something(studying to become a doctor) isn't any sort of indication that studying to become a doctor isn't a valid choice that is easily achievable by others.

Admittedly my comment was in reply to what seemed to me to be your implication that home schooling isn't a valid option because it is apparently "glaringly obvious" to all and sundry that you couldn't personally see yourself doing it. Apparently that was the wrong conclusion to come to because your comments regarding the "glaringly obvious" things no one had touched upon were actually things regarding your own personal situation that none of us know anything about rather than general situations we might actually know about it.

I'm rather amazed at what you have read into my answer. I did state (read my post again if you need to) that I'm not for or against it, but I have no interest in doing it. Even if I wanted to, with three children spread over seven years, the only way I could get one on one time with one child would be to drug the other two. I couldn't even go to the toilet on my own. I'm assuming you are a man? Do you have any idea what it is like not to be able to shower or use a toilet without an audience for years on end?

What's being a man got to do with being able to shower or go to the toilet without an audience?

Try growing up in a household of 15 with a single bedroom for the 13 children and an outdoor shower open to the elements and then come back and talk to me about going to the toilet and shower without an audience.

And funnily enough both my parents found time to have one on one time with each of 13 children without having to resort to drugging the other children. Perhaps you should seek help with time management at the very least or possibly look into seeking professional psychiatric help before anything tragic and irreversible happens in your household.

Well, how many women work? You are fast losing credibility.

Again, could you explain what that has to do with anything?

If you have any examples of families that have chosen to homeschool their children whilst both parents work full time then please do share with the rest of us. I know of no families that have attempted this so I don't see what your comment has to do with anything.

As for credibility you are the one who asked........

"How does one home school when one is not actually at home due to having to be at work?"

As if to suggest there are people out there who choose to home school when both parents work full time.

I admit you have now informed us all that this comment about a "glaringly obvious" thing no one had mentioned was apparently a rhetorical question regarding your own personal circumstances which we apparently are all supposed to know about in detail and not actually meant as any sort of criticism about home schooling in general.

Yep that's credible in the extreme!

I didn't say it can't or shouldn't be done. Did you learn to read at home?

Ah yes, another shining example of the brilliant intellectual and emotional teachings of our vaunted regular school system. When in doubt attack the other person rather than engage in discussion.

So you make an entire post about "glaringly obvious" things no one has mentioned in which you mention the various impediments to home schooling as you see it and which overall has a negative tone. Even asking a sarcastic question regarding how you can home school when there is no one at home to do the teaching. You then back track and claim it was all nothing more than your comments about your own personal situation and I came to the wrong conclusion. Your obvious sexism comes through with questions about how many women work and whether or not I'm a man and know what it's like to shower with an audience and then you conclude with a snide comment regarding my reading ability.

And you think I'm the one who has no credibility.

 

[OKFFW]

I never said regular school was superior. I said I thought the kids may be more insulated.
Where my kids went to school, projects were helped by the parents, a lot.

Homework was a constant chore for them, that I refused to nag or discipline if they didn't do it.
Being in school for 6 hrs a day, and then each teacher figured an additional 30 minutes was appropriate.

Sorry I didn't put an appropriate emoticon with that part, I thought the tongue in cheek tone would suffice. I was being a bit facetious and not serious.

 

[wylie]

Oh my!! Where to start.

I'm picturing you frothing at the mouth by the end of that little rant.

So many words and so much emotion. Thanks for the chuckle.

 

[OKFFW]

Oh my!! Where to start.

I'm picturing you frothing at the mouth by the end of that little rant.

So many words and so much emotion. Thanks for the chuckle.

And I'm picturing such a poor parent she looks forward to being able to get away from her kids each day by sending them to school and fantasizes about drugging them.

Not sure what either picture really adds to the discussion though.

 

[Fifth]

I don't blame OKFFW for being a bit defensive. Some of the comments have been unnecessarily inflammatory and some of the questions a bit head:brickwall.

I didn't realise homeschooling was such a divisive topic.

 

[wylie]

And I'm picturing such a poor parent she looks forward to being able to get away from her kids each day by sending them to school and fantasizes about drugging them.

Not sure what either picture really adds to the discussion though.

Not quite what I said, but whatever you reckon...

You might know how to read, but you have no idea what I actually "said".

Take it out of context and twist my words if you want. I don't give a toss. Others can relate to what I said. You seem to have problems with comprehension.

You need a Bex and a lie down.

 

[jrc]

School projects done mostly by the parents? Surely such a thing would not happen in the regular school system? Seems counter productive to send your child off to be schooled by a system so superior to home schooling only to do the school work for the child.

When our son was in Kindergarten and we had our first parent/teacher interview, the first question I asked was how's Michelle (my wife) coping with the homework.