Is this wrong??

[newbieinvest]

A friend of mine has been renting a property for the last 6 years. She is a single mum with a daughter and has looked after the property like it was her own.

Anyway late last week she received an eviction notice from the agent saying that she is being evicted for non payment of rent. Which on its own sounds fair until you look a little deeper.

Over the last 6 years she has been paid on a fortnightly basis. This has meant that she has paid her rent fortnightly. How it was set up resulted in her being a week ahead one week but then a week behind the next. During the first lease this was raised as a concern by the agent but never mentioned since then so it was assumed they were ok with the arrangement.

Can you evict someone on the above basis. Apparently the staff at the PM has changed so this may have something to do with it.

Finally, she now has to find a new place with is not a big deal as she was already looking for a new one but time is critical now. Her concern is that the eviction will make it impossible for her to find a new place as she will be listed on the rental database (what ever it is called).

Any advice welcome so I can pass it on.

 

[littlelee]

Hello,
What state are you in and what sort of notice was she given? She can only be sent a 14 days Notice to Vacate (in VIC) if she is 14 days in arrears - not 7 days, or have they given her notice based on some other reason? She shouldn't be listed on the NTD or other databases as long as all the rent is paid up to date when she vacates and the property is left in good condition.

 

[newbieinvest]

Hello,
What state are you in and what sort of notice was she given? She can only be sent a 14 days Notice to Vacate (in VIC) if she is 14 days in arrears - not 7 days, or have they given her notice based on some other reason? She shouldn't be listed on the NTD or other databases as long as all the rent is paid up to date when she vacates and the property is left in good condition.

She is in NSW

 

[Brett IP]

This has meant that she has paid her rent fortnightly. How it was set up resulted in her being a week ahead one week but then a week behind the next. During the first lease this was raised as a concern by the agent but never mentioned since then so it was assumed they were ok with the arrangement.

Can you evict someone on the above basis.

If the owner of the premises had a mortgage, which presumably they do, they wouldnt be allowed to be a week late with their mortgage payments every month. Swings both ways.

Strange it has taken so long to come to tuition. Maybe the landlord has taken the opportunity to advise the new PM what they arent happy with??

 

[Jody in Darwin]

Hello,

I have to say up front that my PM knowledge is NT based so the specifics may not be exactly the same as NSW law.

When tenants are 14 days in arrears they can be issued with a "Notice to Remedy Unpaid Rent". This notice advises how much the tenant is in arrears by and provides a date for the arrears to be paid by (minimum allowable time is 7 days). If the rent is paid, the lease continues as normal. If the rent is not paid by the specified date an order may be made to the Commissioner to terminate the lease and have vacant possession given to the owner.

So...being 7 days in arrears doesn't get you an eviction notice (in the NT anyway). Perhaps something is missing in her story or maybe she doesn't understand the notice she has received.

KR,
Jody

 

[Sez]

A friend of mine has been renting a property for the last 6 years. She is a single mum with a daughter and has looked after the property like it was her own.

Anyway late last week she received an eviction notice from the agent saying that she is being evicted for non payment of rent. Which on its own sounds fair until you look a little deeper.

Over the last 6 years she has been paid on a fortnightly basis. This has meant that she has paid her rent fortnightly. How it was set up resulted in her being a week ahead one week but then a week behind the next. During the first lease this was raised as a concern by the agent but never mentioned since then so it was assumed they were ok with the arrangement.

Can you evict someone on the above basis. Apparently the staff at the PM has changed so this may have something to do with it.

Finally, she now has to find a new place with is not a big deal as she was already looking for a new one but time is critical now. Her concern is that the eviction will make it impossible for her to find a new place as she will be listed on the rental database (what ever it is called).

Any advice welcome so I can pass it on.

NSW tenancies Act says:

88 Termination notices for non-payment of rent

(1) A termination notice given by a landlord on the ground of a breach of the residential tenancy agreement solely arising from failure to pay rent (a non-payment termination notice) has no effect unless the rent has remained unpaid in breach of the agreement for not less than 14 days before the notice is given.
(2) A non-payment termination notice is not ineffective merely because of any failure of the landlord or the landlord’s agent to make a prior formal demand for payment of the rent.
(3) A non-payment termination notice must inform the tenant that the tenant is not required to vacate the residential premises if the tenant pays all the rent owing or enters into, and fully complies with, a repayment plan agreed with the landlord.
(4) Despite any other provision of this Part, a landlord may apply to the Tribunal for a termination order before the termination date specified in a non-payment termination notice. The Tribunal must not consider any such application until after the termination date.

Also states that the rent must be paid 2 weeks in advance. If your friend has used up all of her 2 weeks in advance AND been issued a non-payment termination notice then I think she is further behind than what she realises or you are not getting the full story. As it states she can attempt to enter into a payment plan with the landlord or pay the outstanding amount in full. If she does this and the landlord accepts the payment plan then she should be ok in finding a new house. It will be hard for her to find another rental though as her agent will have to advise the other agents processing her application that rent has been an issue but a payment agreement has been entered into.

Hope it all turns out for you & your friend.

 

[Dazz]

renting a property for the last 6 years....late last week she received an eviction notice from the agent saying that she is being evicted for non payment of rent.....Over the last 6 years she has been paid on a fortnightly basis. This has meant that she has paid her rent fortnightly. How it was set up resulted in her being a week ahead one week but then a week behind the next. During the first lease this was raised as a concern by the agent

.....am I the only poor sod who questions why someone, after being given a little bit of leeway in the first month or two - cos the Lease would obviously say she had to keep the payments in advance.....wasn't able to get their act together sufficiently to actually get in front like the payments on the Lease stipulate.

C'mon, we're talking 1 weeks rent over 6 years, that's 1 / 310.....is she that hard up and skint that she can't rake together 0.3% of the rent over that time.

People are hopeless I know and live from pay packet to pay packet with no cash buffer so every little hiccup in life suddenly becomes a melodramtic huge drama....but c'mon, no-one is that hard up they cannot catch up to what they promised to pay.

I reckon the new PM probably sent the Tenant notice after notice and just cracked the ***** with her cos she refused to catch up and get in front like the Lease stipulates (as they always do).


The other thing, the hapless Landlord - could be an old granny, could be a young bloke just starting out and constantly missing his mortgage payments and paying penalties cos she refuses to pay properly on time - probably just cracked it and realised with a single Mum that the rent as a priority on her spending list falls way down the scale. Hmmmm, I wonder what goes thru her mind at the decision point ;

Food vs Rent.........bugger the Landlord - it's been 6 years, they won't mind
Nappies vs Rent.....bugger the Landlord - it's been 6 years, they won't mind
Make up vs Rent.....bugger the Landlord - it's been 6 years, they won't mind
Holidays vs Rent.....bugger the Landlord - it's been 6 years, they won't mind
Fix my only car vs Rent.....bugger the Landlord - it's been 6 years, they won't mind


These things definitely run thru Tenant's decision making minds when confronted with spending choices. I'm thinking right about now that the Landlord's rent suddenly just got elevated a bit in her priority scale.


Mothers and babies and rent.....uurrggghhhh, Landlord loses every time. I banned mothers and babies from my Tenant list years ago. Anyway....

 

[Dazz]

Any advice welcome so I can pass it on.

Yeah - immediately write an apologetic letter to the Landlord for mucking them around continually for the last 6 years, and staple to the letter a check for 5 weeks worth of rent saying that you'll now stay one month's in advance if they let you stay.

Of course, it'll be just her word against her 6 years of action, so it probably won't carry much weight. You could suggest your friend offer a 3 month cash security to the Landlord, which might actually show them she was serious and not just full of promises.....but alas the Law doesn't allow the Landlord to ask the Tenant for this.

Tenancy Union superhero to the rescue of the bedraggled Tenant whom must be protected from the big bad wolf at all costs.

 

[Peterw]

.....am I the only poor sod

mmmm "poor sod" ... please provide evidence to support that statement .

 

[murph14]

Tenancy Union superhero to the rescue of the bedraggled Tenant whom must be protected from the big bad wolf at all costs.

Human instinct. Makes sense.

 

[Dazz]

mmmm "poor sod" ... please provide evidence to support that statement .

Maaate !! If you saw me yesterday with my **** hanging out, knees ripped whilst covered in dust and **** cementing up a pothole in the road, I reckon you'd have donated to a worthy cause.

 

[Peterw]

Maaate !! If you saw me yesterday with my **** hanging out, knees ripped whilst covered in dust and **** cementing up a pothole in the road, I reckon you'd have donated to a worthy cause.

Dazz, I dont believe ... "dressing down" ... qualify's as evidence.

I think you gathered, I was pulling a chain. I did feel your comments, were from a person, who had not worn those shoes. I have not either, however from what I have seen, the range is wide. I agree with your comments, that the landlords position ie mortgage payments etc is often forgotten. I do believe that finding the cause to a problem, helps solve it.

Now, can we post photos of compared ... dressing down gear.

 

[Doovalacky]

I expect if she actually reads the eviction notice carefully it will give her a period to pay up upon which the eviction is automatically canceled.

W.A. you can either issue 14 day breach, then 7 day eviction. Or go straight to the 7 day eviction.

As others have said I expect the agent or owner has gotten sick of her being a week in arrears all the time and is giving a big prod to fix the issue.
My agent would have been mailing a breach every time she missed a payment, that only goes on for so long before the big sticks are brought out.

 

[Sez]

Well Newbieinvest - I think you have an answer to your initial questions of "Is this wrong???" The answer is a resounding yes - It is wrong that they have been so far behind in the rent for so long but not wrong that the landlord has finally had enough.

I know it will be hard as they are your friend but I don't believe you have received the whole story. As has been pointed out she has to be at least 14 days in arrears before the termination for non-payment of rent can be sent. I would try getting the whole story before you are her knight in shining armour.

While I don't agree with all the detrimental comments about mums with bubs renting (some of my best tenants have been single mums and I was one! Not once has my rent ever been paid later than early) it is a stero-type for a reason.

Good luck with your talk to your friend!

 

[Ed Barton]

Well Newbieinvest - I think you have an answer to your initial questions of "Is this wrong???" The answer is a resounding yes - It is wrong that they have been so far behind in the rent for so long but not wrong that the landlord has finally had enough.

it is wrong that the PM hasn't attended to the matter earlier. if she's been paying rent in this pattern for 6 years it's reasonable to assume this is acceptable. one week behind every second week doesn't equal 'so far behind'

if it wasn't a six year pattern i would say this is one of my tenants. exactly the same situation but only a couple of years in the place. i didn't realise the tenant paid fortnightly but one week behind the required payment until the PM changed. the new PM is much more efficient than the old one and notified me. i didn't take action - i wasn't really concerned about the extra 50c interest i could have earnt by having that weeks rent in my account for a year.

 

[Dazz]

i didn't take action - i wasn't really concerned....

...and Tenants know this, and definitely take this into account when deciding where your rent payment slots into their priority list.

 

[Sez]

it is wrong that the PM hasn't attended to the matter earlier. if she's been paying rent in this pattern for 6 years it's reasonable to assume this is acceptable. one week behind every second week doesn't equal 'so far behind'

if it wasn't a six year pattern i would say this is one of my tenants. exactly the same situation but only a couple of years in the place. i didn't realise the tenant paid fortnightly but one week behind the required payment until the PM changed. the new PM is much more efficient than the old one and notified me. i didn't take action - i wasn't really concerned about the extra 50c interest i could have earnt by having that weeks rent in my account for a year.

Completely agree that the first PM should've done far more. According to the original post this has been caught by the new PM which is the case far too often.

Most landlords are willing to bend a little on the rent in advance for a good tenant providing that the tenant doesn't get to weeks in arrears. It's when this happens that most landlords get really upset which appears to have become the case here.

 

[jaycee]

...and Tenants know this, and definitely take this into account when deciding where your rent payment slots into their priority list.

Yes ! And the landlord knows to expect this and that the first move to correct anything going wrong is his, cause he's the one in business with somethign to lose.... If something goes wrong, it's up to ous landlords and supposedly pour appointed managers to raise the issue.. cause you're dreaminig if is a real concern and you think it will just fix itself .. why would a landlord leave it so long before doing anything ?

 

[devank]

Over the last 6 years she has been paid on a fortnightly basis. This has meant that she has paid her rent fortnightly. How it was set up resulted in her being a week ahead one week but then a week behind the next.

What is the big deal? She is also one week ahead as well! Worse case scenario you are talking about one week rent over 312 weeks!

I would care less if my tenant is behind even for two weeks if that tenant is as good as you described and stays there for that long!

 

[Sez]

What is the big deal? She is also one week ahead as well! Worse case scenario you are talking about one week rent over 312 weeks!

I would care less if my tenant is behind even for two weeks if that tenant is as good as you described and stays there for that long!

But if she were really one week ahead and only one week behind then she wouldn't have been issued with a notice to vacate due to her rent arrears, she has to be 2 weeks behind for this to happen??