Live cattle trade to Indonesia

[lizzie]

maza - jaycee - indiffernce and dazz

it is not the slaughtering that was vile ... i am sure none of us are that naive to believe we eat meat from a non-killed beast.

i personally have watched sheep and chickens killed with a quick knife on the farm while growing up. no big deal.

if you watch the video (which is very confronting) it was the ceaseless beatings and forced to walk on broken legs and toturous mistreatment of the animals before they were slaughtered - which was then carried out with a very blunt knife so took several (up to 20) slashes across the throat before the jugular was finally cut.

a quick clean, non fuss, run up to the killing pen - a quick swipe with the a sharp blade and all over red rover (except for the nervous system thrashing) - is not a problem.

 

[LisaP]

Daz,

I agree with you to SOME extent. Most city folk tend to shut out the fact that the meat at their local butchers has come from a once, living animal. The idea that these animals are killed en mass to end up as steak, pork on bacon on our dinner plates IS confronting, and witnessing this slaughter would shock most people.

The human species has evolved to eat meat, and unfortunately, this meat needs to come from other animals. While one day we may be able to synthetically produce meat or become a society of vegetarians - this is not very likely in our life time.

So this then leaves the issue of how these animals are treated during their living days, and also the process of their slaughter. If we have to kill these living creatures so that we may eat meat, we need to do it as HUMANELY as possible.

The investigation into various Indonesia abattoirs showed that most of the cattle were suffering prolonged, distressing deaths.

These cattle were subject to tail twisting/breaking, eye-gouging, and tendon slashing to force them into the position for slaughter. Once secured into an Australian supplied restraint box, Indonesian workers would then use their traditional method of rope slaughter, so that when the box was opened they would struggle and fall, and when trying once again to regain their feet, crash their heads onto the cement, often breaking their jaws. If this was not enough to endure, cattle were then subject to on average 11 throat cuts, with one animal having his throat cut 33 times. One animal with a broken leg was tortured for 26 minutes before he died. One animal that regained his feet after having his throat slashed, tried to escape but had his tendons slashed to disable him.

However, the most heart wrenching scene was of the last steer to the slaughter, shaking in terror, his eyes rolled back, and drooling from the mouth, as he was forced to watch the brutal scene in front of him, knowing that he soon would endure such a death.

Professor Grandin, the world’s leading slaughter expert from Colorado State University, said after viewing the footage that they “violate every humane standard all around the world” and it was “atrocious and completely unacceptable”. Farmers, too, have commented that they would rather go broke than have their cattle sent to these abattoirs.

So yes, while there is no avoiding the killing of animals for meat, their horrific torture and slaughter is completely unacceptable. I'm not a vegetarian, but animal welfare and reducing animal suffering is important to me. They do not have a voice, so it is up to us to protect them.

 

[jaycee]

maza - jaycee - indiffernce and dazz

it is not the slaughtering that was vile ... i am sure none of us are that naive to believe we eat meat from a non-killed beast.But if the majority of us saw how it came to

i personally have watched sheep and chickens killed with a quick knife on the farm while growing up. no big deal.Great for you, but the large majoirty of city folk have not, and we react differently when confronted with it for the frist time etc.... spea,kming from expeeirence, I ahve seen more xity folk act like this than say my raltives in europe wh have lived in both farms & cities

if you watch the video (which is very confronting) it was the ceaseless beatings and forced to walk on broken legs and toturous mistreatment of the animals before they were slaughtered - which was then carried out with a very blunt knife so took several (up to 20) slashes across the throat be[/B]fore the jugular was finally cut.No way am I watchign the video

a quick clean, non fuss, run up to the killing pen - a quick swipe with the a sharp blade and all over red rover (except for the nervous system thrashing) - is not a problem.

I have no idea what your last sentence means

 

[wylie]

LisaP... what a fantastic post. I could not have said it better myself.

I find it insulting to have anybody think that we "city folk" don't know about where our meat comes from or that the animal is killed. But the pivotal words are "humanely" and "quickly".

I just cannot bring myself to watch the clips because I know I will not be able to get the vision out of my head.

But I will do anything I can to help to stop it.

 

[LisaP]

This is an ethical and moral investment/business dilemma.... is it any different to:

We give foreign aid to Fiji yet we oppose the dictatorship that we are financially supporting...

We provide aid to Burma, yet they are social repressed by an openely corrupt government... we still pay... is this ethical?

We provide support and aid to Pakistan through the APDP, yet they harboured the world's number one terrorist for at least 6 yrs... yet we still pay... is this ethically or morally right considering OUR soldiers are being killed in a contrarian battle?

There are FAR MORE IMPORTANT issues that we implicitly accept everyday that are by FAR MORE ATROCIOUS than how a cow is delivered to the dinner table.... yet we don't even bat an eyelid... What have we become

Indifference,

There is no point entering into a debate about whose issue is "more important". I'm sure there are as many issues in this world as there are people (mental health, poverty, environmental concerns, cancer, animal welfare, child abuse, human rights abuse, just to name a few categories). They all need support, so it's a good thing that people have different passions, otherwise society would not have advanced as much as it has.

 

[jaycee]

LisaP... what a fantastic post. I could not have said it better myself.

I find it insulting to have anybody think that we "city folk" don't know about where our meat comes from or that the animal is killed. But the pivotal words are "humanely" and "quickly".

I just cannot bring myself to watch the clips because I know I will not be able to get the vision out of my head.

But I will do anything I can to help to stop it.

No one here said city folk dont think meat comes from animals that are killed

But I have hseen the absolute naivety in people that woudl make you think that they beleive McDonald's patties grow on trees and eggs come from that little shelf in the fridge with the it's own clear plastic lid. Peopel htat will eat McDonld's anything, but will not touch lamb or a whole fish... cause it makes them "icky" at the thought fo ani mals "eewwwww".. McDonald's is tolerateed, cause it looks nice, not like an animal.

No one said that applied to you personally of course, but that doesn't mean it can't apply to other people. I've seen it so so many times from so many different people that it amazes me how naive we can be sometimes.... I dont like to admit it either but seriously, we are pretty pathetic

Reading Lisa's post, I'm not sure how we came to such different conclusions on what she said: Most city folk tend to shut out the fact that the meat at their local butchers has come from a once, living animal. The idea that these animals are killed en mass to end up as steak, pork on bacon on our dinner plates IS confronting, and witnessing this slaughter would shock most people.

 

[Cupcakes]

Totally agree with LisaP!

You can send a letter to you local MP here: http://www.animalsaustralia.org/features/help-live-export-prohibition-bill-through-parliament.php

 

[Graingrower]

But I will do anything I can to help to stop it.

Has anyone got any ideas? Some people I have talked to think that if we ban our exports to Indonesia then at least they're not Australian animals that are tortured, and that makes it better. The Indonesians won't buy refrigerated beef because funnily enough most of them don't have fridges. I don't know what the answer is, but I don't think a complete ban will make any difference. How do we police a ban on certain abbotoirs? At the end of the day it's not our country and they will do what they want. At least this story has raised the issue to a wider audience, we can only hope that actions from now actually improve things rather than just sweep it under the carpet.

 

[Dazz]

Dazz,

I agree with you to SOME extent. Most city folk tend to shut out the fact that the meat at their local butchers has come from a once, living animal. The idea that these animals are killed en mass to end up as steak, pork on bacon on our dinner plates IS confronting, and witnessing this slaughter would shock most people.

Agreed.

The human species has evolved to eat meat, and unfortunately, this meat needs to come from other animals. While one day we may be able to synthetically produce meat or become a society of vegetarians - this is not very likely in our life time.

Agreed - slaughter for meat shall continue.

So this then leaves the issue of how these animals are treated during their living days, and also the process of their slaughter. If we have to kill these living creatures so that we may eat meat, we need to do it as HUMANELY as possible.

Agreed.

The investigation into various Indonesia abattoirs showed that most of the cattle were suffering prolonged, distressing deaths.

Agreed - as I said, it was complete nonsense what they were doing.

These cattle were subject to tail twisting/breaking, eye-gouging, and tendon slashing to force them into the position for slaughter. Once secured into an Australian supplied restraint box, Indonesian workers would then use their traditional method of rope slaughter, so that when the box was opened they would struggle and fall, and when trying once again to regain their feet, crash their heads onto the cement, often breaking their jaws. If this was not enough to endure, cattle were then subject to on average 11 throat cuts, with one animal having his throat cut 33 times. One animal with a broken leg was tortured for 26 minutes before he died. One animal that regained his feet after having his throat slashed, tried to escape but had his tendons slashed to disable him.

However, the most heart wrenching scene was of the last steer to the slaughter, shaking in terror, his eyes rolled back, and drooling from the mouth, as he was forced to watch the brutal scene in front of him, knowing that he soon would endure such a death.

Yes - I saw the entire video footage as well. You missed nostril pulling as well, but let's not quibble, your dissertation above is a fair summary of the footage.

Professor Grandin, the world’s leading slaughter expert from Colorado State University, said after viewing the footage that they “violate every humane standard all around the world” and it was “atrocious and completely unacceptable”.

Agreed.

So yes, while there is no avoiding the killing of animals for meat, their horrific torture and slaughter is completely unacceptable.

Holy smokes - I think we are in full agreement !!

 

[Piston Broke]

Indifference,

There is no point entering into a debate about whose issue is "more important".

Yes there is, life is about priorities and people should be a higher priority than animals.
How many products in your house came from abuse of humans?
Should the gov ban those goods as well or does it not matter to you because you don't see it on tele while your have dinner?
Sure some people in 3rd world countries are cruel to animals and humans, but "needs to come from other animals. While one day we may be able to synthetically produce meat or become a society of vegetarians" is just ridiculous and btw the human brain evolution is in part due to meat eating.
So next we can discuss your support of human abuse because you purchase goods manufactured by kids and slave labour.

 

[Indifference]

Indifference,

There is no point entering into a debate about whose issue is "more important". I'm sure there are as many issues in this world as there are people (mental health, poverty, environmental concerns, cancer, animal welfare, child abuse, human rights abuse, just to name a few categories). They all need support, so it's a good thing that people have different passions, otherwise society would not have advanced as much as it has.

You missed the point.... You only care about THIS issue because you have been LED to care by the media hype. Without the news story you would continue on blissfully ignorant to the whole issue. This type of social conditioning only fuels the detachment we have with reality... like how did my steak get to the dinner plate. If we aren't TOLD, we often DON'T ask and therefore DON'T care..... are we then morally and ethically void without media prompting?

Hopefully you get the point now, since I removed the vagaries of independent thought....

 

[LisaP]

Yes there is, life is about priorities and people should be a higher priority than animals.
How many products in your house came from abuse of humans?
Should the gov ban those goods as well or does it not matter to you because you don't see it on tele while your have dinner?
Sure some people in 3rd world countries are cruel to animals and humans, but "needs to come from other animals. While one day we may be able to synthetically produce meat or become a society of vegetarians" is just ridiculous and btw the human brain evolution is in part due to meat eating.
So next we can discuss your support of human abuse because you purchase goods manufactured by kids and slave labour.

Piston,

Why, I would LOVE to discuss the ethical issues and implications involved in purchasing products manufactured through child labour. In fact, this was the EXACT topic that I discussed with my students in one of my tutorials a few weeks ago, as I tutor management at university.

In fact, the particular case study involved child labour, trafficking and exploitation of children in the cocoa sector, examining the ethical issues involved, examining the issues from the perspective of each stakeholder, and applying the various ethics theories to the case study.

So rest assured, my interest in animal welfare does not mean I "support human abuse" nor does it arise because I have not seen any examples of human abuse "on tele while I have my dinner"!

 

[LisaP]

Holy smokes - I think we are in full agreement !!

LOL - I think we are too! Looks like I'll have to agree to agree with you then!

 

[jaycee]

Yes there is, life is about priorities and people should be a higher priority than animals.
How many products in your house came from abuse of humans?
Should the gov ban those goods as well or does it not matter to you because you don't see it on tele while your have dinner?
Sure some people in 3rd world countries are cruel to animals and humans, but "needs to come from other animals. While one day we may be able to synthetically produce meat or become a society of vegetarians" is just ridiculous and btw the human brain evolution is in part due to meat eating.
So next we can discuss your support of human abuse because you purchase goods manufactured by kids and slave labour.

Why not, start a topic on it man !

 

[LisaP]

You missed the point.... You only care about THIS issue because you have been LED to care by the media hype. Without the news story you would continue on blissfully ignorant to the whole issue. This type of social conditioning only fuels the detachment we have with reality... like how did my steak get to the dinner plate. If we aren't TOLD, we often DON'T ask and therefore DON'T care..... are we then morally and ethically void without media prompting?

Hopefully you get the point now, since I removed the vagaries of independent thought....

Indifferent,

You would be pleased to know that I am very capable of independent and critical thought.

You will also be pleased to know that I was not LED to care about this issue due to media coverage. I have always cared about animal welfare issues. What the media did, in this instance, and to great effect, was bring a hidden topic into the public arena. In fact, the welfare group, Animals Australia, explained that they had chosen to air this on Four Corners first, only becasue previous, private attempts to get the government to act had failed.

 

[eKwatee]

Australian abattoir workers kill our cattle quickly & humanly then send it off to McDonalds that turns it into junk food that kills your children slowly but humanly.

 

[LisaP]

Australian abattoir workers kill our cattle quickly & humanly then send it off to McDonalds that turns it into junk food that kills your children slowly but humanly.

Very clever!

 

[locko24]

Why not, start a topic on it man !

....because this is a bl00dy property forum!

 

[jaycee]

oh yeah, I forgort.

 

[Ocean Architect]

Australian abattoir workers kill our cattle quickly & humanly then send it off to McDonalds that turns it into junk food that kills your children slowly but humanly.

There's meat in McDonalds? When the hell did that happen?!!?