Live cattle trade to Indonesia

[our obsession]

...and it is even less than 5% because that relatively small part of live meat trade (to Indonesia), some are already exploring other avenues of 'business' and it leaves a squawking minority. This thread has had a relatively polarised emotive response, that of anger/indignity over/about perceived 'livelihood' or the shocked response to how the cattle were treated, (which is very much the response and concern from cattle growers I am connected with). Yet not presented the other viable options being presented to, and sourced by cattle growers.

In other words the thread was missing some balanced information.

Live animal exports innately have potential risks. How do we best manage the risk and animal welfare, at what point do we absolve ourselves from what happens to that livestock, and understanding 'it is a complex issue.'

 

[eKwatee]

...and it is even less than 5% because that relatively small part of live meat trade (to Indonesia), some are already exploring other avenues of 'business' and it leaves a squawking minority. This thread has had a relatively polarised emotive response, that of anger/indignity over/about perceived 'livelihood' or the shocked response to how the cattle were treated, (which is very much the response and concern from cattle growers I am connected with). Yet not presented the other viable options being presented to, and sourced by cattle growers.

In other words the thread was missing some balanced information.

Live animal exports innately have potential risks. How do we best manage the risk and animal welfare, at what point do we absolve ourselves from what happens to that livestock, and understanding 'it is a complex issue.'

The live export industry to Indonesia is worth approximately $330 million obviously stop this & someone's loosing this $330 million. I guess it's only a beat up as long as your in the 95% of the industry that's not affected & would be devastating if you were in the 5%. I guess the level of emotion & destruction of ones livelihood depends on which % you're in.

 

[our obsession]

The live export industry to Indonesia is worth approximately $330 million obviously stop this & someone's loosing this $330 million. I guess it's only a beat up as long as your in the 95% of the industry that's not affected & would be devastating if you were in the 5%. I guess the level of emotion & destruction of ones livelihood depends on which % you're in.

Raise you well over/up a billion and (at very, very least), quadruple the potential jobs...have you given due consideration:


A recent report estimates the total cost of the live export trade to Australia could be around $1.7 billion in lost GDP, around $280 in household income and around 12,000 jobs.

Russell Carr, the Queensland AMIEU director describes most succinctly the economic absurdity of exporting Australian animals live:

“By exporting live cattle we are exporting our resources intheir least valuable form.” “We are losing jobs and reducing the value of our exports. If we process the animals once they reach maturity, at over 550kg, we increase the product value: chilled and frozen beef is worth far more per kg than live cattle."

Australian Farm Surveys Report 2000, p 513 ABS Catalogue 6246.0 (various series)4 Heilbron, p 555 Carr, Russell (15/01/01) http://jinx.sistm.unsw.edu.au

Not to mention the total removal of concern of quality control to animal welfare and slaughter issues, something others countries have woken up to and dealt with (almost beginning) a decade ago. (Referring specifically to our neighbor, NZ).

I'm with you on good, sound business practices, jobs and money back into Australia's pocket benefits us all. Live trade possibly, (only use that word sparingly), benefit a very small few, and yet whom 'are not bereft' other business options. The way you utilise your mind can be a limiting factor though.

 

[eKwatee]

“By exporting live cattle we are exporting our resources intheir least valuable form.” “We are losing jobs and reducing the value of our exports. If we process the animals once they reach maturity, at over 550kg, we increase the product value: chilled and frozen beef is worth far more per kg than live cattle."

It was reported that the Indonesians cant accept the quantity of chilled or frozen meats they need due to the lack of cold storage. As a supplier you supply what the customers want to buy or the customer goes elsewhere.

Just like Iron-ore, the Chinese want the ore not the steel, the steel is worth much more but the buyer won't buy the steel, they just want the ore.

 

[our obsession]

It was reported that the Indonesians cant accept the quantity of chilled or frozen meats they need due to the lack of cold storage. As a supplier you supply what the customers want to buy or the customer goes elsewhere.

Yes, I am familiar with statements put out by 'some areas of the industry', I not so convinced, (along with many others in the industry), that is the full picture, nor that which detailed study reports have shown:

...examples of how the Australian government and industry might create an alternative outcome to this situation. Again, New Zealand has shown the way to go: their economic strategy to severely curtail the live export trade has vastly benefited their national economy.

As identified in detail in the Heilbron report, any negative effect of this policy on livestock producers has been negligible, because it has coincided with substantial improvements in productivity and product development, in the processing of sheep in New Zealand.

Over the past 10 years, the volume of sheep meat further processed in New Zealand has risen from around 25% to over 80% of the total export kill.

These figures indicate how with increased capacity utilisation, the New Zealand industry was able to not only improve productivity and efficiency, but most importantly they were able to use this enviable position to further invest in value-adding opportunities and innovative processing technology...

Strange that volume has risen 25 to 80%, processed in NZ being the operative info.

(From: Personal Correspondance with West Australian Meat Processor30 Rolfe, J and Reynolds, R (1999)

Competition and Exit in Meat Processing: A Queensland Case Study,Paper presented to 43rd Agricultural and Resource Economics Conference, Christchurch.31 Heilbron, p 53-432

New Zealand Strategic Outlook: Towards 2006 )

 

[eKwatee]

Over the past 10 years, the volume of sheep meat further processed in New Zealand has risen from around 25% to over 80% of the total export kill.

Over the past 10 years sounds like a sane transitional period not immediately ban the trade & lets sought it out while all the ***** is hitting the fan like the Labor governments mentality. If there is a more productive, efficient & effective way of conducting this business then lets give the industry a time frame to sought it out as New Zealand have.

 

[our obsession]

Over the past 10 years sounds like a sane transitional period not immediately ban the trade & lets sought it out while all the ***** is hitting the fan like the Labor governments mentality. If there is a more productive, efficient & effective way of conducting this business then lets give the industry a time frame to sought it out as New Zealand have.

Strange then the Australian Livestock Industry can comprehend the reasons...(from Don Heatly Chairman ):

"The Australian livestock industry understands the reasons behind the Australian government's decision to temporarily suspend the live cattle trade to Indonesia until a controlled system that will assure the welfare of Australian cattle exported to Indonesia has been implemented," the statement said.

MLA chairman Don Heatley said the suspension of the trade would most certainly have an impact on cattle producers and communities in the north and that needed to be acknowledged.

"However, industry is confident it can work with the Australian and Indonesian governments to deliver the solution," he said in the statement.

"This decision gives industry sufficient time to implement the controlled system which will ensure the appropriate treatment of Australian cattle in Indonesia."

LiveCorp chief executive Cameron Hall said MLA and Livecorp were reviewing industry programs in all markets to ensure Australian animals were being treated humanely and with respect during management and processing.

"These solutions will take time but the Australian industry is committed to ensuring Australian producers have confidence their livestock are well treated and retain access to key markets," he said.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/environment/a...erstand-ban-20110608-1frvr.html#ixzz1R8eBBxG8

 

[Intrinsic_Value]

Strange then the Australian Livestock Industry can comprehend the reasons...(from Don Heatly Chairman ):

and how are they ment to phrase things?

I need belbo's writing skills on on this.

This is propaganda,
there are three underlying implications
(a) the export market
(b) the domestic market (apparently beef sales dropped after the 4 courners report)
(c) the government which controls the 'law'

So how does one issue such public statements.

 

[Dazz]

MLA chairman Don Heatley said..."industry is confident it can work with the Australian and Indonesian governments to deliver the solution,"

I don't know what makes him so confident...he didn't say.


Sort of doesn't matter really now, as it was announced on radio this afternoon that Indonesia has now placed an IMPORT ban on all live Australian cattle until the end of September.


Australian export ban be buggered, the Indonesian Govt has now placed an import ban on our cattle, so it doesn't matter what the Australian Govt does now. As stated previously, we have no stroke in their country.


Tit for tat I'm sure, but as I said before, they are their own soveriegn country and won't be pushed around or have Australian bleeding heart lefty morals pushed onto them.


I wonder if the Indonesians have stopped eating beef, or they are simply importing them from another country. No-one has mentioned anything about that yet.

 

[locko24]

Word i'm hearing is the Indonesians are considering South America. More shipping costs, but apparently worth it!

 

[our obsession]

I.V:

So how does one issue such public statements.

Well, there is always the coalition method, 'emotive fearmongering..'

Also note when the 2006 trade to Eqypt was banned (under Howard) there was no compensation to cattle growers, (yes, it was smaller percentage of trade).

It resumed in 2008.

Indonesia exploring other countries for importing live cattle, that's their prerogative, their brutal treatment of Ozzy cattle-that's our business, ask a cattle grower how he/she regards that.

Noone, but noone wants that. Not at any price.

 

[Intrinsic_Value]

I.V:

Well, there is always the coalition method, 'emotive fearmongering..'

Also note when the 2006 trade to Eqypt was banned (under Howard) there was no compensation to cattle growers, (yes, it was smaller percentage of trade).

It resumed in 2008.

Indonesia exploring other countries for importing live cattle, that's their prerogative, their brutal treatment of Ozzy cattle-that's our business, ask a cattle grower how he/she regards that.

Noone, but noone wants that. Not at any price.

was it all indonesian abbattoirs or only a few, werent some abbattoirs in compliance, yet was has happened to their supplies????

How does this effect game strategy for the indonesian meat industry?
It means that Australia, previously regarded as a low risk, reliable supplier of livestock, is now high risk, with high sovereign risk.

So what will be the long term impact?
Indonesia will seek to diversify its supply networks.

 

[Dazz]

Indonesia exploring other countries for importing live cattle, that's their prerogative, their brutal treatment of Ozzy cattle-that's our business

.....once again, I'm not sure about that.

I'm yet to see anything on paper referencing a contract clause stating at what point in the process they cease to become Australian and become Indonesian cattle.

After discussions with a few folk, my notion of when the cattle set foot on the boat and they leave Australian shores apparently is incorrect. I was told by a few people in the know it is actually when the cattle set foot on Indonesian soil that they are "bought", and henceforth become Indonesian cattle.

If that is true, then at that point, they cease to become Ozzy cattle, they cease to have any protection under Australian law and they then come under the sovereign rule of Indonesia. I would contend Australian producers legal rights and responsibilities also cease at that point. Thereafter, the Indonesian owners of the Indonesain cattle must take full responsibility for their welfare, and Australians have no right to interfere.

The trouble of course is, no-one in Australia outside the industry wants to talk about or gives two hoots about the economic or legal ramifications. They simply want to impose their 1st world welfare standards on a 3rd world nation who couldn't give two rats about what they think. The 1st world tosh are absolutely horrified at this, as their demands are kowtowed to every step of the way here in the 1st world.

So we get into the deliciously murky "emotions and feelings" sector, and there is simply no end to that.....no right, no wrong, just endless opinion and hand wringing, and massive amounts of mud slinging. Joy.

 

[HiEquity]

In most international trade there is a winner and a loser out of the deal. Personally I think it has been too long that we've been letting our customers push us around on this issue. Of course they want to buy live everything so they can do the value adding themselves. Just like buying iron ore and turning it into steel themselves instead of buying Australian steel, except with the cost differential being far less in this case. Buying a live beast from a boat lets them keep as much of the value chain for themselves. It's exactly what I would want as a customer. But should we really be in that game? Is it worthwhile?

In my view, we should slaughter them here and send the carcasses over. I don't buy the refrigeration story one little bit. Refrigerated / Freezer Containers are pretty impressive and efficient these days and you can fit an awful lot of carcasses in one well insulated container and take up a lot less space on a ship than in the form of cattle pens. You're also not shipping around the ocean a heap of water, tallow, giblets, bone, etc etc etc.

For sure if we just stopped it some customers will find some other muppet from South America etc to stand in our place, to the extent they can, but:
a) The industry just isn't worth that much to us as a nation in the first place; and
b) I would be very surprised if the extra value to Australia provided from exporting carcasses instead of live product didn't more than make up for any loss of revenue / volume from the live product. I seem to recall a PC/similar report on this but I can't find it now.

Anyway, it would just mean that we would effectively have to turn some farming jobs into abattoir jobs. Such changes are never easy but would be worthwhile in the long term. We have done such re-inventions successfully before, after all. In my view the sum total of jobs would at least be the same as we currently have and we wouldn't have to deal with all this hullabaloo either.

But as long as we keep taking the easy option, let our customers do the processing and dictate the price of beef and lamb to us in such a manner, we will keep coming out of this the loser...

 

[mr-ed]

Partial ban lifted!!

Labor have finaly relised that they have ballsed up this whole fiasco!!!

 

[Intrinsic_Value]

was it all indonesian abbattoirs or only a few, werent some abbattoirs in compliance, yet was has happened to their supplies????

How does this effect game strategy for the indonesian meat industry?
It means that Australia, previously regarded as a low risk, reliable supplier of livestock, is now high risk, with high sovereign risk.

So what will be the long term impact?
Indonesia will seek to diversify its supply networks.

and what happens:
http://www.news.com.au/national/fed...-live-export-ban/story-e6frfkvr-1226089173677

Live cattle exports may only be chump change relative to the hard commodity sector, its importance should not be ignored given it provides a source of diversified earnings. And hard commodity prices will not stay at these levels forever.

 

[pursefattener]

Once again Dazz an excellent post right to the point and i agree completely with your logic .

I don't agree with trying to create meat processing jobs here in Australia etc for several reasons . Sadly our industrial relations suck big time . Too many people want to be paid more and more money for less and less work and they wonder why jobs keep going off shore .

Now setting up Australian owned processing facilities the like of what I think Elders have done makes good sense to me . Employ job hungry Indonesians with perhaps a different work ethic and then zippity do da , job sorted ....

 

[SENIOR]

Ban lifted by Agricultral Minister TODAY
This decision is causing division in the ALP and the left are not happy little vegemites
Another issue Gillard will have to solve She must be starting to get grey hair

Senior

 

[Dazz]

Sadly our industrial relations suck big time . Too many people want to be paid more and more money for less and less work and they wonder why jobs keep going off shore

Exactly. People proposing processing the meat here in Oz must assume that no business person hasn't already tried to make this work, and the labour and HSE and HR and IT and PL and super and holiday pay and ... and .... simply kills the business stone dead before it even gets off the first draft page on the first night around the coffee table.

 

[HiEquity]

Exactly. People proposing processing the meat here in Oz must assume that no business person hasn't already tried to make this work, and the labour and HSE and HR and IT and PL and super and holiday pay and ... and .... simply kills the business stone dead before it even gets off the first draft page on the first night around the coffee table.

Come on Dazz, you can do better than that. From here:

Australia is the world’s second largest exporter of beef and sheep meat. In 2007-08, around 64
per cent of beef produced in Australia was exported, 45 per cent of lamb and 82 per cent of
mutton. The combined value of beef, lamb and mutton exports in 2007-08 was slightly more
than $5.4 billion.
Australia is also a large exporter of live animals, particularly out of northern and western
Australia. In 2007-08, more than 700 000 cattle, valued at around $450 million, were exported
mainly to markets in South-East Asia. More than 4 million sheep were also exported in 2007-08,
mostly to the Middle East, with a value of around $280 million.

Obviously our abattoirs are a bit more developed than the coffee table idea, at $5.4bn of meat exports.

The processed meat export industry dwarfs the live trade. Getting rid of the live trade would be no great loss and probably fully compensated by greater processed meat exports, in my opinion FWIW.