Mould in bedrooms because of no flyscreens?

[vaughan]

Just had the 6 month inspection done on the IP and PM reports that the tenant is complaining of mould:

"There is a mould problem in the bedrooms, the tenant simply cannot ventilate these rooms properly as there are no flyscreens. The bathroom around the window sill also has mould occurring on the base of it."

This is in a recently painted and cleaned house with newly polished floors (no carpet) that has good sub-floor ventilation. Before painting there was no mould just years of smoke stains (yuk) and everything got scrubbed, sealed and painted. The bathroom got a new exhaust fan installed that vents to the outside air not the ceiling cavity.

Sydney has had a long period of rain and some mould is going to happen.

The place has no flyscreens and I was thinking of putting them on for summer, maybe, but the excuse of no ventilation BECAUSE there are no flyscreens? Sheesh! My PPOR has no flyscreens because its a 1920s bungalow with casement windows, but I somehow manage to open the windows regardless.

By my estimation the screens are $50 each DIY from Bunnings excluding installation and there will need to be 6 to cover the 2 windows in all 3 bedrooms, so that's $300. A week's rent. And its a capital expense so I cannot claim it back immediately.

Shall I instruct the PM to remind the tenant that it is their responsibility to keep the house clean and flyscreens are not required to allow ventilation?

 

[nww]

Last lot of fly screens I installed was used from ebay for $10
Just re cut them to fit by using a flyscreen mitrebox and hacksaw.
Make sure you take out the inner joiner before cutting.
Might take a while to get the colour you need.

 

[daniellee]

Hi,

I had a somewhat similar experience with a tenant requesting for flyscreens to be installed. I initially asked the tenant to fork out half the cost on supply and install, and they decided they could live without it. When it was rent review time 12 months down the road, I said I would install the flyscreens and up the rent in line with CPI, and they said it was no longer required.

Seeing that the tenants rented the place as is without flyscreens, installation of flyscreens count as an improvement to the living conditions to me and could constitute a rent increase. Alternatively, if the tenants are not giving problems, and you have the money, you could go ahead and do it out of good will.

Most tenants don't want to open the window because of the insects, but that should not stop them from opening the door if there is a security gate.

In summary, do what you have planned. Tell the PM to inform the tenants to keep the place clean and that windows are there for ventilation.

 

[vaughan]

Very quick responses, many thanks.

 

[willair]

Just had the 6 month inspection done on the IP and PM reports that the tenant is complaining of mould:

"There is a mould problem in the bedrooms, the tenant simply cannot ventilate these rooms properly as there are no flyscreens. The bathroom around the window sill also has mould occurring on the base of it."



Shall I instruct the PM to remind the tenant that it is their responsibility to keep the house clean and flyscreens are not required to allow ventilation?

Maybe also have a look for any white ants,because where there is mold whiteants-termites are never far behind..

 

[wylie]

The flyscreen issue never ceases to amaze me. We don't have them, don't want them, and none of the properties we look after have them. We've never been asked for them.

You lot south of the border are a bunch of softies .

Tell your tenants they were not there when they rented the place, and they are welcome to install them and pay for them if they wish to have them, but it is their responsibility to open the windows and if they are too scared of a few mozzies, they must clean the mould themselves.

 

[vaughan]

I just read that they have another request:

"The tenant has also requested permission for a dog as his work van is constantly broken in to and feels this would be a deterrent for would-be thieves."

So he gets the dog and actual thieves keep breaking into his van, what then?

 

[vaughan]

This is a photo of the mould "problem".

I'm happy to send a roof person around to look for leaks, but this looks pretty normal for a ceiling after a month of rain. Just clean it already.

In fact I'd rather spend $300 on the roofer than the fly screens. It'll be repairs and maintenance too so immediately deductible.

 

[Crabnet]

I doubt the flyscreens will fix the mould issue. You might see mould and dirty flyscreens on next inspection.

I must admit it is something we see in our bedroom this time of year.
Lawn outside, cold nights with no heating in bedroom causes condensation to form on inside of glass. Have to leave windows closed in daytime because nobody home. Mould can grow but is easily killed with a wipe down of weak bleach as part of regular cleaning.

 

[Jacque]

I've had mould issues in some of my IPs as well as my PPOR recently. I've found products as the Thirsty Hippo absorbents work well (especially in walk-in-robes) as a short term solution or when there's lots of rain.

However, bathrooms are another kettle of fish, as both ventilation via exhaust fans and airflow is needed. Not opening a window as there isn't a flyscreen isn't really a valid reason, but I can understand why some people don't like to open windows without them, particularly in poor weather or if there are mozzies/flies etc. And, Wylie, I'm obviously a softie

I recently paid for a cleaner in one of my IP's that has an ongoing mould issue. I even got a roofer to check for leaks but it was mainly due to dampness left over from torrential rain recently in QLD. Old roof with horsehair filling in the ceiling probably doesn't help, coupled with lack of roof ventilation in an old house.

Allowing mould to grow, however, isn't really a great idea, without addressing it, as it can then become a health issue for the tenants and you would lose at a tribunal hearing. Why not pay for a cleaner to remove it and get the PM to keep an eye on it?

 

[BMan]

how can you not have flyscreens
i wouldnt open my windows if i didnt have them i open the doors most of the time and windows on weekends
i rarely heat the house and its always pretty cold and dont really have a mould problem except for the shower where its always damp and cant dry out in the cold weather properly

whats the bad points of installing fly screens...?

 

[INVSTOR]

I would consider it an issue, worth looking into. I had a prob with one property in the bathroom, I gave it a good clean with 50% bleach and water. We painted the whole bathroom, ceiling and wall with a mould deterant, I added a security screen so there was no excuse about ventilation. Mould is a health hazard, (Asthma, mould spores are inhaled into your nose, etc) I did heaps of research on it. If you google you would understand further. I found telling tenants at the beginnning of tenancy to ventilate property was useful and they would comply. Most of my tenants have been full-time workers, so not at home most of the time. I used to live in the property before renting it out, and was amazed my moisturiser containers, etc, would grow mould underneath them.

 

[pinkboy]

I just read that they have another request:

"The tenant has also requested permission for a dog as his work van is constantly broken in to and feels this would be a deterrent for would-be thieves."

So he gets the dog and actual thieves keep breaking into his van, what then?

Tell him to install an immobiliser or an alarm in his work van, no dog scares any would-be-theives with sausages hanging out of their mouths!

As for the flyscreens, I think you are really hard up if you cant afford to install $300 woth of fly screens. You are more worried about the deductability than the possible damage the mould may cause in future. What happens if tomorrow the HWS breaks down and you have an immidiate $3k bill plus the tenant requesting a rent reduction? Do you not have any buffer? Also come valuation time, flyscreens would also be a plus!

pinkboy

 

[marg4000]

We always ensure that there are security screens on at least the bathroom, laundry and kitchen windows of IPs so that windows can be left open for ventilation.
Marg

 

[vaughan]

I've had mould issues in some of my IPs as well as my PPOR recently. I've found products as the Thirsty Hippo absorbents work well (especially in walk-in-robes) as a short term solution or when there's lots of rain.

However, bathrooms are another kettle of fish, as both ventilation via exhaust fans and airflow is needed. Not opening a window as there isn't a flyscreen isn't really a valid reason, but I can understand why some people don't like to open windows without them, particularly in poor weather or if there are mozzies/flies etc. And, Wylie, I'm obviously a softie

I recently paid for a cleaner in one of my IP's that has an ongoing mould issue. I even got a roofer to check for leaks but it was mainly due to dampness left over from torrential rain recently in QLD. Old roof with horsehair filling in the ceiling probably doesn't help, coupled with lack of roof ventilation in an old house.

Allowing mould to grow, however, isn't really a great idea, without addressing it, as it can then become a health issue for the tenants and you would lose at a tribunal hearing. Why not pay for a cleaner to remove it and get the PM to keep an eye on it?

I think it's all rather overblown.

Regarding "cannot open windows without fly screens" well if they complained about insects I'd be happy to put them on, but this is nonsense.

I posted a photo in an earlier post of the room with the worst mould: it's pretty mild and hardly a health issue, and cleaning won't be hard. In fact even if it's not cleaned it'll probably dies once the weather improves, since the property had no mould when we bought it.

Rooms get mould in winter if the weather is cold and wet.

Not that the tenant has no problems with the bathroom, except mentioning some mould on the window sill. The bathroom was recently cleaned and painted with Dulux mould shield so I'm not expecting any issues for a couple of years. Actually only the window frame has normal paint (not mould shield) so it might get some mould; but wiping it over once a week is considered normal cleaning for a tenant?

I'll post the other photos the agent took to display the problem and welcome comments.

 

[INVSTOR]

There is no way I would live in a property like that. I know tenants usually have a list of what they would like as an inclusion to renting, but I think you not acting on the matter is not a positive to tenants, and your property. You would have to be offering a discounted rental amount for tenants to live with that issue.

 

[vaughan]

Tell him to install an immobiliser or an alarm in his work van, no dog scares any would-be-theives with sausages hanging out of their mouths!

As for the flyscreens, I think you are really hard up if you cant afford to install $300 woth of fly screens. You are more worried about the deductability than the possible damage the mould may cause in future. What happens if tomorrow the HWS breaks down and you have an immidiate $3k bill plus the tenant requesting a rent reduction? Do you not have any buffer? Also come valuation time, flyscreens would also be a plus!

pinkboy

Im sorry, I can find absolutely NO causal link between an absence of fly screens and the mould. None at all; in fact, fly screens might even REDUCE the ventilation and make the mould WORSE. Sheesh!

The mould is minimal and it's NORMAL for winter. See the pics in my last post. The place does NOT have a mould problem; it has a bit of mould from the cold wet weather and a lack of ventilation. The tenant claims they cannot open the windows because there are no fly screens; I don't understand why I need to buy fly screens so they can open the windows.

The place had a $15,000 reno in October 2011 and was completely painted inside and out, brand new kitchen, ripped out the carpet and polished the floors.

I'm happy to spend $300 getting a roofing person to look for leaks and fix them, and keep the property maintained to a very high standard. I'd also be happy to add fly screens if the tenant complained that the house was hot in summer and insects came in when they opened the windows at night -- but they did not complain in summer, the house has an air conditioner and I imagine they kept the windows and venetian blinds closed. They complain they need fly screens to open the windows in winter and THAT is the cause of the mould. IOW the mould is MY fault because the house does not have fly screens.

The place has venetian blinds, they can open the window a bit and close the blinds to allow some ventilation but keep out most insects.

I'm not being a scummy landlord, but I'm not buying new bits for the house for stupid reasons especially where I'll get no return.

If the hot water systems breaks I'll fix it, but that is unlikely because it's almost new and I had it checked before purchase. I'll also fix any part of the house that needs fixing due to fairy wear and tear.

 

[vaughan]

There is no way I would live in a property like that. I know tenants usually have a list of what they would like as an inclusion to renting, but I think you not acting on the matter is a not positive to tenants, and your property. You would have to be offering a discounted rental amount for tenants to live with that issue.

There is a smiley missing there right... I mean, that's gotta be a joke?

We're talking about some mould spots after several weeks of cold and wet weather. Where the remedial action requires getting a cloth and wiping the wall down. It's the tenant's responsibility to keep the house clean.

Note that there are NO complaints about the bathroom -- this is where the worst mould should be! That's because the house is clean and dry.

Do you discount rent when the grass gets too long or the windows get dirty?

 

[pinkboy]

Im sorry, I can find absolutely NO causal link between an absence of fly screens and the mould. None at all; in fact, fly screens might even REDUCE the ventilation and make the mould WORSE. Sheesh!

The mould is minimal and it's NORMAL for winter. See the pics in my last post. The place does NOT have a mould problem; it has a bit of mould from the cold wet weather and a lack of ventilation. The tenant claims they cannot open the windows because there are no fly screens; I don't understand why I need to buy fly screens so they can open the windows.

The place had a $15,000 reno in October 2012 and was completely painted inside and out, brand new kitchen, ripped out the carpet and polished the floors.

I'm happy to spend $300 getting a roofing person to look for leaks and fix them, and keep the property maintained to a very high standard. I'd also be happy to add fly screens if the tenant complained that the house was hot in summer and insects came in when they opened the windows at night -- but they did not complain in summer, the house has an air conditioner and I imagine they kept the windows and venetian blinds closed. They complain they need fly screens to open the windows in winter and THAT is the cause of the mould. IOW the mould is MY fault because the house does not have fly screens.

Actually that's a point: the place has venetian blinds, they can open the window a bit and close the blinds to allow a bit of ventilation but keep out most insects.

I'm not being a scummy landlord, but I'm not buying new bits for the house for stupid reasons especially where I'll get no return.

If the hot water systems breaks I'll fix it, but that is unlikely because it's almost new and I had it checked before purchase. I'll also fix any part of the house that needs fixing due to fairy wear and tear. But the house was offered for rent as-is.

Can you tell me who wins the Tour De France, Wimbledon and how many gold medals Australia wins in the Olympics?

pinkboy

 

[pinkboy]

All jokes aside, I bet your next thread will be 'Tenant moved out because of mould issue, house sat vacant for 3 weeks in between tenants, shouldnt have been so tight to save $300'

Oh, that is in jest!

pinkboy