Neil Jenman

Thats interesting because my PM (north of Brisbane) reckons a Jenman real estate that absolutely dominates the market where she is, is because they list for correct price and never buy a listing.

So the Jenman R/E properties for sale in the area are usually 5% -10% cheaper than any othe R/E properties in the area.

I have bought 10 properties in my life (im sure plenty on here have bought more) and not once did i come across a sales person from the local R/E (wherever it was at the time) that didnt buy (or attempt to) the listing and then do the conditiong thing.

If only i knew then what i know now.

In 1988 i threatened to take a R/E to court (i was 27 and didnt really have a clue what i was doing), anyway, they settled out of court before the case and the sales guy got the boot....win/win i reckon.......:)
 
Brains:

Can you (or anyone else) explain what is meant by an agent "buying a listing"? Or should I just be thinking the obvious?

Also, I'm intrigued about the litigation you had with the R/E - what happened?

Kevin.
 
"Buying a listing" is when a RE agent quotes a higher expected price than his
competitors to make you feel good and list your property with him.

They then typically condition you down over time to the true market
rates.

Read the Neil Jenman book for some real insights into how the RE
industry works.

andy
 
Originally posted by brains
Thats interesting because my PM (north of Brisbane) reckons a Jenman real estate that absolutely dominates the market where she is, is because they list for correct price and never buy a listing.

The agent I was talking about who routinely overlisted, and listed for extraordinary lengths of time was not a Jenman. :)

In the area where I worked, the local Jenman agent listed about right, if anything, a little under Market. However, they wouldn't show the house unless you went for an interview with them first, and all the people who would be on the title went to the viewing.

I tried to have a look at a house I wanted as an IP. It was in the same street I lived in at the time, and I rang the agent (A Jenman agent). She asked me who was going to buy it. I told her. She then wouldn't let me look through the property unless my Hubby came with me. I told her I knew about the house, since the agency I work for had sold it some years before, and I looked through the file, which had photos in it. I told her I had finance in place, and that I just wanted a quick look at the property, and would be in a position to make an offer on the spot.

She refused to show me the property, unless I came into their office to discuss with them whether or not I was able to afford the property, and wanted me to bring pay slips and tax returns. Oh, and my (then) Husband had to come too...

I told her it wasnt necessary, as I already had finance approval, and knew what I was doing. I just wanted to look at the house, and could I meet her there. I also tried to explain that my husband was a shift worker, and would be unable to view the house for another few weeks.

She refused, again, saying that this was the Jenman Way, and that they must protect their vendors by ensuring that any prospective purchasers were able to make an offer.

Needless to say I bought a different house from a different agent.

The house in question remained on the market for another couple of months with this agent, then they lost the listing, and someone else sold it. I don't understand how this was good for the vendor.

asy :D
 
asy,

Wow what a story!! Do you think that was that particular real estate operating that way, or a Jenman method they were using.

Ive bought properties from Jenman real estates before and have never come across anything remotely like that.

In fact i enjoy buying from real esates that use the Jenman method.

Kevmeister,

Goes something roughly like this:

Buying a list is when the agent tells the vendor an inflated price that their property will sell for.

The vendor gets excited and signs the 3 month (or whatever it is)
contract.

The agent then tells prospective buyers that the house will sell for a lower figure than what he told the vendor.

Now the agent then has 3 months to condition the vendor that their house is worth less than was quoted originally (the market's changed...etc....)

They also condition the prospective buyer upwards, when the two prices are the same, they will have a sale.

I heard somewhere they actually teach sales staff this technique as part of the course, could be wrong tho.
 
I've heard several other people (women) tell pretty much the same story of Jenman agents in their area - have to bring hubby along - have to prove that you can afford to buy it.

What a load of crock !

I say we pull The_Wife out of her cage and let her loose on these particular agents - they'll soon regret suggesting such things as women not being in a position to make their own decisions !

Jenman way ? I'd be really interested to see if Jenman himself invented or enforces those particular rules - or whether his intentions have been subverted by others.

I'd be prepared to forgive if the latter, but will be out to crucify if the former ! I would be prepared to listen to him talk about it though.
 
I have a sneaking suspicion that it's not really fair to lump all Jenman agents together and say "they all do this" or "they all don't do that". In the end you're dealing with human beings, and each agency, and indeed each agent, is going to be an individual and do things their way, even if it is within the framework of Jenman's system.
Personally I've bought 3 properties through a Jenman agency, wonderful salesperson, I certainly will buy through him again. I've never had any suggestion that I can't buy anything without hubby along, I've been treated with respect and professionalism at all times.
Totally positive experience for me.
 
As apposed to the 'Jenman' system, we also have R/E that now advocate 'set sales' and the way to sell. Has anyone had any experience with these types of purchases.

davids
 
Ive seen it used with houses advertised in my local paper but didnt take much notice. Whats it about?
 
Hi David.

Set Sale is almost like a tender process.

An agent I went through the course with (Rob Sordello) was just starting in it when we were at Uni, and extolled it's virtues at every opportunity. I have had a look, and on the surface I like it, but I will do more research into it in the next 12 months.

This is an excerpt from his website.

THE ‘SET SALE’ STRATEGY OBJECTIVE

The best price for any property is achieved in the first 30 days, because there is always a pool of buyers eager to look at new listings. So it is imperative that your price is right the day your property hits the market!

On countless occasions we have had an offer refused by vendors in the first 30 days simply because it was the “first offer”. The property has then sold, a considerable time later for less than the original offer.

Even more important are the offers that never eventuate, either because the property is overpriced or inadequately promoted.

The traditional strategies of “For Sale” with a set asking price and “Auction” don’t maximise the sales potential. "For Sale" misses buyers because of over-pricing and under-promotion. And while, auction achieves a good promotion and concentrates on the first 30 days, a number of people are put off the process because of the tension involved for both the seller and the buyer.


While ‘By-Negotiation' is probably the best of the traditional strategies because of price range flexibility and the lack of tension, it lacks the concentrated promotion that the auction system provides.


A new system called ‘SET SALE ’ has therefore been developed, incorporating the best of the traditional strategies.


In a ‘SET SALE’, the property is heavily promoted in the first four weeks. Buyers are informed that all offers will be considered by a preset date four weeks from the start of promotion. During that time they can either make a formal offer or register their interest. We then contact all the registered buyers two days prior to the ‘SET SALE’ date and firm their offers.


THE SYSTEM

VALUATION: A valuation by an independent licensed Valuer will be obtained on your property which will be a price guide to you. On occasions we also may use this sworn valuation to help increase an offer made by a buyer.

PRICE RANGE SELLING: There is substantial evidence to support the success of the price range selling concept. Fixed prices are killers when it comes to the sale of a property because they are always priced above the market value,and people are put off by overpricing. Also,from a set asking price you can only expect to be negotiated downwards. Price range selling sets the range in which negotiations may commence.

We attract more than twice as many people to the property because they are attracted by the bottom price (the “gotta have a look price ”),and then assume the middle. As a result there are more buyers,more offers and more competition for your property. This effectively eliminates one of the two things that can stop a home selling:removing the inhibition of price. Our experience is that if the property is placed in the recommended ‘By-Negotiation ’range the end selling price will be in the top half of the range.

PROMOTION:‘SET SALE ’offers you four times more promotion in the first four weeks than a normal agent would do in 120 days. Maximum use is made of all the very best techniques such as photo signs,display advertisements,and weekly opens,to mention a few.


THE THREE PHASES
The Promotion Phase: During this period the property gets superb and constant promotion. Buyers have two options. First of all they can place an offer and negotiate immediately. Alternately they can register their interest in which case we will contact them two days prior to the ‘SET SALE’ date and negotiate with them.
The Negotiation Phase: This is when the most intensive negotiations are expected to take place and all offers are collected.
The Under Consideration Phase: This is the period after the ‘SET SALE ’date when you can consider the offers and we can negotiate actively on your behalf.


So there it is …. the best strategy ever devised to sell property. It combines the best aspects of all the strategies,and insures you get the best chance of a successful sale within weeks of putting the property on the market.


The 30 Day Marketing Plan
Whenever a property goes on the market there exists a pool of buyers who are looking in a suburb and a price range. If the property does not sell within those first 30 days,the pool of buyers is used up and all we are left with is the trickle of new buyers who are coming onto the market.

IT IS IMPERATIVE THAT YOUR PRICE IS RIGHT THE DAY YOUR PROPERTY HITS THE MARKET. Even more important is the fact that in the first month you will get the best price because buyers will not risk losing it. In the second month,they know they can negotiate a better deal and by the third month the price really begins to drop.

The problem with the traditional fixed price method of marketing is that the property goes on the market 10% above the market price, either because sellers are terrified of under-selling,or they may have an over-inflated view of their property at times. At the very least they are going to add a negotiation buffer. On the other and, buyers look at homes priced 10 –15% below what they will eventually pay. As a result, buyers are looking up to 25¾low what vendors are asking with the traditional fixed price method.

We have developed an entirely new method of marketing a property that is having sensational results. At times,the system is bringing prices above even the vendor ’s expectations. Furthermore,the majority sell in the first 30 days,especially when coupled with one of our marketing programs.

We achieve this by using an amazingly simple system. Instead of disclosing your price,we promote it using a “Buyer Inquiry Range ”. Instead of stating your price or even your negotiating range,we say to the buyers “If you are looking in this range,then you should come and look at this property because we think it will interest you.” As a result,buyer inquiry soars,and because we are not disclosing your price we can quote the buyer as much as 15% below what we expect it to bring. At the same time we can include your dream price at 10% above the market.


You can achieve what thousands of vendors are achieving each year:
A top price in a short time with little or no hassle.



Sorry if this was a bit long, but I hope it answers your question.

By the way, this was supposed to be informative, please read past their hype... Also, I am not promoting this company, (I haven't seen Rob since we left uni,) but this was a very good explanation of the system and I thought it might help. :)


hope this helps

asy :D
 
Buying from Jenman

Asy,

Funny you should have that experience with trying to buy from a Jenman agent....I had a very similar experience when I bought an IP about 12 months ago.

I spotted the house on a website (they now no longer advertise) and I rang them up. I told them that I would meet them at the house and go through it. The agent wouldn't let me do that and insisted that I come into the office and have a chat about what house would be right for me blah blah blah. I asked him if he was serious and that I didn't have the time to come down to their office and that there were plenty of other houses out there. I also told him that we could chat when I went to inspect the house. (Thank goodness he didn't say anything about having to have hubby there or I would've hung up!)

To his credit (looking after the vendor as I was about to walk) he relented and met me at the house. He didn't give too much away about the vendor's position. I ended up buying the house $10K under the original asking price (turned out to be a urgent relocation case).

I do agree that not all Jenman agents are the same as we are dealing with people....I developed a great rapport with this particular agent and I have recommended him to my friends who were buying in the suburbs that he looks after. He even offered to take me to dinner at the Hyatt if my friends bought a house off him (don't know what my hubby would say if I was going to dinner with a real estate agent :D )
 
Asy,

referring back to your post about the Jenman agent refusing to show you the house, in Jenman's book he says that in the event the agent won't submit offers or pass on your questions to the vendor you should drop a letter in the mail box of the vendor.

He even provides proforma letters to assist in the wording of such letters.

The tone of the letter is that your agent is not doing his/her job right so I am bypassing them.

what's that old saying...............Hit 'em with a ball of their own .... (making?)

Macca :)
 
Last Tuesday evening I met with a young couple looking at purchasing their first investment property. The wife had recently contacted a Jenman agent and asked to inspect a property. She was told she couldn't inspect it without her husband. Needless to say she did hit the roof after explaining that her husband worked long hours, was rarely home before 7pm and if she had to wait for him it could be weeks before they saw anything. They refuse to deal with any Jenman agent.

Some time ago a young couple told me they had been refused to be shown a property because they too were not "qualified" buyers. They hadn't sold their own home, in fact they hadn't even listed it yet, so they were given the old "heave ho". I showed them 1 house, they bought it, we went to their place, put it on the market, it sold in 1 week and both properties settled 1 month later. You can read what they had to say on my website.

No doubt the industry could use a better image and a cleanup of some of its practices, I don't believe that slinging mud in hope that some of it sticks is the right way to go about it. Best left to politicians at election time. His insinuation that unless you are a Jenman agent you are unethical is unfair. I have many friends in real estate, all of them very honest and highly ethical, some of them are Jenman agents too.

It's not right to label everyone the same just to suit your cause. I wonder how much money the Jenman system generates?? I've heard many times he openly reveals stats on everyone elses profitability. I was just wondering.

www.nundahrealestate.com.au
 
It's interesting to me these stories about Jenman agents. I wonder if most of them are tightwads like the examples... Anyways, I just finished reading 'You can negotiate anything' by Herb Cohen, an excellent book.
One idea he has if you dispute a certain rule is, go to the next higher up. If you are continuously hitting brick walls with the schmuck you are dealing with (whether it be a Jenman agent, or the clerk at the local electrical goods store) then go to the next higher up. If you don't get a result there, go higher until you do get a result. Most likely, the owner or the boss is going to be much more flexible than robot you originally spoke to.
Remember, the fishies on the bottom of the ladder are very small and often do't have the authority to bend the rules, as they may fear that their job will be put at risk or they may get in trouble over some jerk off they have never met. However, the boss/owner sees you as a walking wallet, keen to make a purchase and they will be more willing to bend the rules a little.
Back to Jenman, if you don;t get any results from the agent, go to the principal, if they give you grief, write to Jenman himself, and don't give up until you get a reply. A little bit of noise from a lot of people turns into a rumbling earthquake. Then again, you could always go to the millions of other agents in your neighbourhood too.

Mark
'no hat, some cattle'
 
Mark,

That's not a bad book.

Another one, by an Australian, is "You can get the best deal every time", by Wayne Berry. Her presented to a Spann thing last year, and was excellent. I'd recommend that book too.

Something else which can REALLY help you to negotiate well. And that's to have children. They know all the tricks, and you have to use a lot of weapons in return.

Now a case study in what NOT to do.

My wife works for a travel agent. She had a client who organised a trip. He spent many hours organising everything. He came and paid the deposits.

Four days later he cancelled the trip.

The agency agreed to refund $400 of the $500 deposit.

The client then spent 2 hours arguing to get the extra $100 deposit back. After the agency had spent many hours arranging trips- which he decided to cancel on a whim.

He got the deposit back. But it's a lose/win situation. He's not welcome back to the agency; the client also runs a restaurant in the same (small) complex, and he's not going to get return business either. Bad will has been created on two sides.

He got this deal, but he stands to lose a lot more than $100 in the longer term.
 
:confused: I must say that the level at which people can be fooled is stunning! The media manipulate stories so they are news or at least attract an audiance, otheres manipulate the media to make a story or promote their products. However, people do not understand the basics behind Jenman and the reasons for his system or how it actually impacts on clients. They don't understand in general the structure of real estate and it's systems, tricks, techniques or methods. Please before you take sides get informed or find a party that REALLY is informed, unbiased and independant. People wake up agents, all agents in business are not your friends, they look after their intereests first. If young Neil, or any agent wishes, we will have a true debate and discuss the real questions like real estate industry reform and why they won't remove the hidden wealth tax they impose on clients.
Sorry but this industry sucks most of the time. I'll take my tablet now!
"Chance Favours The Prepared Mind"
 
Neil Jenman has had an open offer for years to debate any leading real estate figure ( eg: the head of any state's Real Estate Institute) in this country in a public forum, ( televison) about whats wrong with the real estate industry in this country and have the public vote on the winner of the debate and the loser donating a sum of money ($5k - $10k i think) to the winners chosen charity.

How many have taken him up on his offer?...... surprise..surprise.........exactly none.
 
:) Sorry Brains but Neil and the REIV have refused to discuss the issues with me anywhere. I have asked them many times, don't believe everything you read. Remember why Jenman is there or promoted by TV, it is to give the vaneer of balance. Jenman approved agents follow blindly what he dictates do you know why? Does it bother you to know that Jenman's fees are usually higher than most other agencies? Does it mean anything that he will not discuss his fee structure on TV or anywhere in the media? In fact he has an ally in the RE Institutes as they also charge in the same manner. This could be a very long discussion! If one of Neils boy's or girl's want to discuss it lets do it here? Just tell me when!
 
I'm sorry TOTS, what is your position(are you an agent?) in this? I'm a little lost
 
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suggo I have had my own company in Vic. and sold accross the State, I also had a company that helped people sell their own properties. I now work only with investors and privately to help bring reform to what I believe is one of the most corrupt industries I have ever come accross. I only want to see the public be informed and armed with the true knowledge about how things work and operate. I have been working for some time to expose scams, schemes, frauds and bad practices.
I have not been pushing my business here, but just participating. It's been fun, informative and enlightening. This year is already looking interesting, a flyer on my desk at the moment from Jamie McIntyre "Guru"(just ask him). He has a seminar "21st Centry Academy" comming up but his Anthony Robins impersenation will be peppered with some interesting speakers ex Henry Kaye.
I hope people are not seduced but informed before they consider these style of Flim Flam shows.
Time for another pill ... sorry don't mean to preach... just be cautious.
 
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