Neil Jenman

[Lily House]

Hi Tot,

You say you don't want to be seen as 'pushing' your 'business'. Is that why you won't tell us who you are? I am curious. If I ask you outright like this will you let us know the name of your business and more about it. Some of your posts have been quite intrigueing so please let us know more. ie what you are doing, why and how (without the mystery). Of course don't reveal more than you are comfortable doing. But if you are just being shy because you don't want to be seen as promoting yourself, then hopefully my asking outright will give you the opportunity to reveal yourself. Thanks

Lily

 

[TOTS]

Lily thanks, my business has been with private investors till recently (Oct. 2002) but at that time I was encouraged to make what I did public ...so in Oct/Nov. I encouraged my investors to let others know what the deal was and started "Think Outside The Square" a subscriber only investment research and knowledge pool. I hold forums, with individuals, groups and Businesses. Subscribers are indivduals or corporate.
Look I thank you for the opportunity but this is not my site, so if you want to know more please drop me a line [email protected] or call 03 9712 0197
I have a passion to help rid the world of parasites... the two legged kind that pretend to be helping people. If the operations have nothing to hide then great, but if they do I want you to know it so you can make an informed choice and decision.

 

[suggo]

Ahh ok, a noble cause Tots!

Ok, now I understand where you are coming from, are you for or against Neil Jenmam? Do you think his system is shoddy or just the amount he asks for using it?

 

[TOTS]

suggo good question, it's not what he charges as much as what is hidden. His internal systems and the way his system can burn out good people. It's about money, his seminars, his sales courses, his ego and methods. I believe in most believable scams, schemes, frauds and shonksters, there is some basic truths. So it's the Scams Hidden In Truths that should be addressed.
I have nothing against Neil, he is a successful and clever business man. But he prey's on those who are i'll informed and those that are uninformed, agents, sales people and public. I have an extensive sales and marketing background, his methods and tactics are all about being on your side, being ethical and I have no doubt that his people believe it. I don't - I have interviewed his staff, his agents and their staff and his clients.
You can fool some of the people some of the time...

 

[suggo]

Can you give us some examples of what is shonky from these interviews? As you know it is all very well to knock things but if there aren't things that can be named and identified then it is difficult to believe those slinging the mud.

 

[TOTS]

suggo I know nothing of you either, call me and I'll happily discuss it, but I was asked a question and I answered it. If you want detail then become a client!

 

[suggo]

Hmm, very well. I can't say that I'm champing at the bit to become a client at the moment, I think I'll wait for your website so I can understand a bit more what exactly it is you are offering.

For the moment I am quite impressed with the Jenman system as it does seem to have the vendors interest at heart, and a ring of truth about it! However maybe in mid Feb I will change my mind!

 

[suggo]

I have another question (if I am to be billed for the answer there is no need to reply ) If Jenman agenices charge alot more than others then why do these people continue to pay it and not change to another system or franchise? Must be something in it for them!?

 

[brains]

Im not sure Jenman real estates charge more than other real estates. (non Jenman)

In the area i have 5 IPs a Jenman office absolutely dominates sales (there ar 5 other real estate offices).

I have asked the sales guy i deal with and they charge the same as everyone in the area, otherwise the punters would go elsewhere. I think most vendors/buyers arent educated enough and dont care if a real estate office is a Jenman one. The just look at the bottom line and what its going to cost.

 

[TOTS]

Guy's don't get me wrong all agents are not the same, even within the Jenman camp. If you ask, you will find clients that think they are the best and others say they are the worst. If you think you got or get a good deal thats great but if you pay and don't receive value for money you'll always complain.
Ask this are the agents asking a fair fee for service?
If the operate on commission are you saying then they will only work harder if I pay a higher commission?
Buyers are not loyal and will buy the property from who ever has it. In this country we have been "conditioned" to think agents are necessary. However I don't believe they are and there are alternative's. Good ones. But each client has requirements and those need to be disscussed seperately.
No there is no fee for this... I do this FREE but I do charge for my otheer services...
It's drink time isn't it!!!!!
Good questions keep up the questions and don't trust anyone... unfortunately

 

[Jacque]

Hi Tots,

You raise a few interesting points, in that there are many sharks out there, no doubt Jenman agents among them. I've just finished listening to Jenman's Winning In Real Estate 1993 course on tape (got it second hand from the library sale for $1!) With his tactics fresh in my mind, it does strike me that he relies on the old "flattery" technique to acquire listings. He also uses the line: "Would you trust me to sell your home for you, Mr X?", to which not many people could say NO outright to his face! I have mixed feelings about Jenman and his techniques, though I admire the way he has made the public more aware of shonky practices and auction techniques within the real estate agency. As far as agents go, I believe that, like any industry, there are good and bad apples. It's just seems like it's a longer process to sort out the wheat from the chaff.

On another note, Tots, I notice that you are interested in possible scams etc within the real estate industry. Have you ever heard or had any dealings with a NSW based company called Town and Country Land Sales? The two men running it are Victor Ollis and Brad Street. Victor has been in legal trouble before in the Qld courts, but I was just curious as to whether or not you could shed any further light on them. They advertise positive cashflow properties through all expenses paid coach tours.

 

[XBenX]

With Jenman I think its a case of "the lesser evil"

Edit : my typing is terrible today

 

[Mondie]

We had one dealing with a Jenman franchise RE in SE Melb a few years back. They failed to sell the property after 2 months, took it to another agent that sold it in 10 days. In retrospect l believe the 2 months of conditioning from the first agent influenced us more than we should have let it, hence we probably sold the property too cheaply through the second agent.

The thing that has always stuck in my mid from that experience was on the night the Jenman subscribing RE agent signed us up and was leaving, as he walked into the night he said very convincingly "We wont let you down!" It raised our expectations of them and they failed to deliver.

 

[brains]

Were your expectations already too high regarding the sale price, hence not being able to sell in 2 months, or did the agent buy the listing?

I think even i could sell a property at below market price.

 

[TOTS]

Originally posted by Jacque
Hi Tots,

I've just finished listening to Jenman's Winning In Real Estate 1993 course on tape (got it second hand from the library sale for $1!) With his tactics fresh in my mind, it does strike me that he relies on the old "flattery" technique to acquire listings.

Woow Nelly you guys one step at a time.... You got it right in one, I have some of his sales training material... brain washing comes to mind. The best sale job any agent does is in convincing you to sign with them... that is why Jenman has succeeded because he places so much time in training his robots. NLP, 90% of the sales training is how to get and keep listings.

I provide my subscriber and soon will be posted on my web site the "Game Plane" which shows you how to sort the wheat from the charf, when selecting an agent, any agent.

DON'T take any coach tours... if you are truely interested in buying wholesale property I am negotiating with a group of independant professionals to asses developments and offer them to investors without any fees being extracted by middle men. That would be wholesale property, wouldn't it?

Have you heard of Wholesale Property Brokers? If they are taking a fee from the developer how can they be wholesaling property?

XBenX are you sure which is the lesser of two evils

Mondie your experience has been common to many people, unfortunately it is not exclusive to Jenman, but why charge such a high fee? Why use suspect techniques in training that have in experienced potential employees cold calling and discussing the sale of your home, they don't know! It's parrot work and inthe first 10 eeks or so they don't get paid as they are going through assesment.... slave labour?

brains you hit on something here, Jenman teaches the old mountain philosophy so often has the property too high. If they fail to "condition" the vendor quickly enough then they lose the property, this often means the next agent has an easy sale.

The red pill or the wine???? BOTH

 

[Mondie]

Originally posted by brains
Were your expectations already too high regarding the sale price, hence not being able to sell in 2 months, or did the agent buy the listing?

I think even i could sell a property at below market price.

l think they may have been aiming a little high, but it was the poor marketing that resulted in very little interest. Jenman is against open for inspections. The agent we switched to held one in the first week of listing and had more people through the place than the other agent did in a month. The eventual buyer seen the place the one and only OFI.

l am a big believer in OFI's; l dont see how Jenman can defend his postion on not liking them.

l can see what your saying TOTS about a large part of the focus of the Jenman system being centred on winning the listing. In the past few years of vigourous activity on the RE scene in Melbourne and Sydney, the houses have sold themselves, so winning the listing WAS selling the house. The sales skills needed to close a sale are not as vital. In a down market the skilled sales agents will really shine and the agents that can win a listing but not sell will suffer.

 

[Les]

G'day Mondie,

In a down market the skilled sales agents will really shine and the agents that can win a listing but not sell will suffer.

It doesn't work quite that way, Mondie - in most RE offices, the listing agent will get (say) 40% of the agents' commission, with the selling agent getting 60% (of course, the "agents' "commission might be 50% of total commission - the principal gets the rest)

So, the "listers" can still survive (especially well if they bring in twice as many listings as "selling" agents), It comes down to "each to their own".....

Regards,

 

[Kevin Hockey]

Mondie - You couldn't be closer if you tried.

Jacque - I too have Jenman's 1993 course tape and I attended his seminar in 1997/8 and he had changed philosophies a lot in that time and has gone more radical again since then. My regional managers are from Sydney and have told me a number of offices went broke after Neil advised the Jenman agencies to sell their rent rolls, an important source of income to any office.

Suggo - you asked why do agencies pay his fees. That is a good question, however Neil does advocate to his "disciples" that they should be independant. This is why you see so many of them as "Joe Bloggs real estate" and not franchises ( Professionals and First National are not Franchises). Not always, but a lot of the time, and this is because he knows they can't afford both.

You have to give him credit though, he sure is making a squillion bucks and he knows how to market a product.

Kev

www.nundahrealestate.com.au

 

[Kevin Hockey]

Can I suggest Les you would have that around the wrong way. In most offices the listing agent receives 60-65% of the salesperson's portion. The selling agent receives 30-35%. This is to encourage agents to list property, without which an office wouldn't survive and to discourage someone parking themselves down the back with a newspaper and just throwing a buyer in the car occasionally and then getting a generous split of the commission.

I have never heard of the seller agent receiving more than the listing agent.

Kev

www.nundahrealestate.com.au

 

[TOTS]

Originally posted by Les
G'day Mondie,

In a down market the skilled sales agents will really shine and the agents that can win a listing but not sell will suffer.

It doesn't work quite that way, Mondie - in most RE offices, the listing agent will get (say) 40% of the agents' commission, with the selling agent getting 60% (of course, the "agents' "commission might be 50% of total commission - the principal gets the rest)

So, the "listers" can still survive (especially well if they bring in twice as many listings as "selling" agents), It comes down to "each to their own".....

Regards,

Les in Vic. and around the country the Agency often gets 60% of the commission, the listing agent and selling agent split the rest (40%) sometimes aslow as 15%/25% split.

In a down market the older established agents often hang on and pick up the listings of the out going agents - the don't need to be the best agents, they just had to be there! I saw this many times.

Kevin you are spot on, my discussions with his left and right hand men disclosed how he wanted to achieve 600 agencies in the country. He peaked and last year was in serious danger of slipping below 300. He had to do something drastic so Jenman approved was born. He has very few agencies in inner areas because they can't compete on his commission structures.

Agents commissions vary greatly and most people would be shocked to know what the average agent actualy makes. It's the agency that makes the dollars, the long termer that picks up on the overnighters, and the gun usually leaves after establishing him/herself and gets their own agency or burns out.

how is the weather up there Kev? What is your position in the firm and how long been in the game if I may be so bold? Feel free to tell me to urinate away if this is a bit personel.