Neil Jenman
- Thread starter GeeVee
- Start date
Hi TOTS and I'm not here to "urinate" on anyone, whether you are for or against Neil Jenman. As I said his marketing skills are up there near Coke, McDonalds and many other big company's( one of the reasons I believe no-one wants to take him on - a master manipulator). You wouldn't rate their products up there for quality yet we'd all like a slice of there action.
It's easier for us in the industry to understand the full ramifications of the Jenman system, but if you listed with them, sold your property quickly and at a price you were after, you could easily become an advocate. Most people only deal with an agent every 7-10 years, a little training and you can get them to believe a lot of things, much of it comes down to ethics but I place more significance on morals. In an industry such as real estate where the potential earnings are so high it's easy to let those matters slip, unless your dedicated to a long career and a good reputation.
Lee Woodward was one of Jenman's top agents working in Dee Why. Since leaving sales to set up his training business he has begun working closely with John McGrath and by all reports has now seen how the other side works and is an advocate.
At the end of the day I'm just happy if an owner sells their property, gets a fair deal, and the best price possible for the property. I just don't believe that if you took 100 sales and compared them together, a property which has not been correctly marketed will achieve its best possible price on most occassions. Scaremongering is his style and I think that should be left with politicians.
I was told at our recent State conference that over 75 offices have left Jenman over recent months. I bumped into Barry Tyson from Mitchelton, Brisbane recently who was a staunch supporter for at least a decade. He had just resigned.
I must admit to agreeing with most of what you say TOTS but I do think you should be more open about yourself. I have posted my full name and web details not to promote myself, I just don't feel comfortable if I want to have a say but stay behind anonymity. Just like people who complain about the Govt. but refuse to vote and have their say. You are obviously experienced in the industry and have plenty to offer the forum, so tell us more mate.
As for my position, I am the Principal and Company Director, but most importantly just another cog in the wheel to get us to our goals.
Kev
www.nundahrealestate.com.au
It's easier for us in the industry to understand the full ramifications of the Jenman system, but if you listed with them, sold your property quickly and at a price you were after, you could easily become an advocate. Most people only deal with an agent every 7-10 years, a little training and you can get them to believe a lot of things, much of it comes down to ethics but I place more significance on morals. In an industry such as real estate where the potential earnings are so high it's easy to let those matters slip, unless your dedicated to a long career and a good reputation.
Lee Woodward was one of Jenman's top agents working in Dee Why. Since leaving sales to set up his training business he has begun working closely with John McGrath and by all reports has now seen how the other side works and is an advocate.
At the end of the day I'm just happy if an owner sells their property, gets a fair deal, and the best price possible for the property. I just don't believe that if you took 100 sales and compared them together, a property which has not been correctly marketed will achieve its best possible price on most occassions. Scaremongering is his style and I think that should be left with politicians.
I was told at our recent State conference that over 75 offices have left Jenman over recent months. I bumped into Barry Tyson from Mitchelton, Brisbane recently who was a staunch supporter for at least a decade. He had just resigned.
I must admit to agreeing with most of what you say TOTS but I do think you should be more open about yourself. I have posted my full name and web details not to promote myself, I just don't feel comfortable if I want to have a say but stay behind anonymity. Just like people who complain about the Govt. but refuse to vote and have their say. You are obviously experienced in the industry and have plenty to offer the forum, so tell us more mate.
As for my position, I am the Principal and Company Director, but most importantly just another cog in the wheel to get us to our goals.
Kev
www.nundahrealestate.com.au
Mondie - any monkey can sell property, if a buyer wants it they'll buy it. It takes a lot of "skill" to list properties.
Kev
www.nundahrealestate.com.au
Kev
www.nundahrealestate.com.au
Kev I agree completely, I had my own agency and am a long term advocate for industry reform... I'm not hiding behind aminimity. I have been asking Jenman and the REIV to debate fully Industry structures and how agencies charge (commissions). Suprise, suprise neither Neil nor the REIV would discuss fees anywhere.
I started as a salesman, and was stunned by the corruption, manipulation and lies indemic in the industry. So I started my own business, helping people sell their own home. After death threats, break ins and thefts I started my own agency. We were inovative and customer focused, our clients were very diverse and were charged flat rates and not commissions, and our contractors/agents worked out of home and met regularly.
I expanded over time with up to 18 contractors/agents. investors were a big focus of what I did.
Now I only work with investors and make my income through subscriptions only. This is so I can be objective and comentate on the industry unbiased and independant. I receive no commissions from anywhere, no kick backs and no trailors, no financial or obligational conection anywhere.
My business is called "Think Outside The Square" and I work from home in Kangaroo Ground. Victoria. My name is Stephen Hill and you can contact me at [email protected] My objective is to launch a web site shortly that will have information on all types of RE how they operate, charge, tips, tricks, methods, structures.
Highlighting how vendors rights and obligations, contracts, how to keep control, and if they want how people can sell their own home, no fees, and the best options to market.
The second part of the web site is for subscribers only, providing information as in these forums, plus scams, schemes, seminar shonks, frauds, get rich quick cautions, etc,etc,etc. objective forums on investment options, whats available, who does it, how it works, risk analysis etc,etc. availability of true wholesale property.... no agents fees, no marketing fees...etc.etc.etc.
I'm not hidding behind anyone or thing. If you think you know something about my business or me, just ask and I'll confirm it or tell you what I know.
I want investors to be able to access good unbiased information and competant reliable experts to help them achieve their goals. As far as I know I am the only site in Australia doing this without bias nor affiliation, beholding to no one. I can make a living and I will make a diferance. Join me or not, I invite you and anyone else to do the right thing.
I believe in ethical and moral business behaviour, Investors begged me to take up this challange and it has been very rewarding so far... it will continue, what the investors want will be researched and provided.
Sorry but I'm .... driven.
I ask, I question, I will not be cast aside.
Think
I started as a salesman, and was stunned by the corruption, manipulation and lies indemic in the industry. So I started my own business, helping people sell their own home. After death threats, break ins and thefts I started my own agency. We were inovative and customer focused, our clients were very diverse and were charged flat rates and not commissions, and our contractors/agents worked out of home and met regularly.
I expanded over time with up to 18 contractors/agents. investors were a big focus of what I did.
Now I only work with investors and make my income through subscriptions only. This is so I can be objective and comentate on the industry unbiased and independant. I receive no commissions from anywhere, no kick backs and no trailors, no financial or obligational conection anywhere.
My business is called "Think Outside The Square" and I work from home in Kangaroo Ground. Victoria. My name is Stephen Hill and you can contact me at [email protected] My objective is to launch a web site shortly that will have information on all types of RE how they operate, charge, tips, tricks, methods, structures.
Highlighting how vendors rights and obligations, contracts, how to keep control, and if they want how people can sell their own home, no fees, and the best options to market.
The second part of the web site is for subscribers only, providing information as in these forums, plus scams, schemes, seminar shonks, frauds, get rich quick cautions, etc,etc,etc. objective forums on investment options, whats available, who does it, how it works, risk analysis etc,etc. availability of true wholesale property.... no agents fees, no marketing fees...etc.etc.etc.
I'm not hidding behind anyone or thing. If you think you know something about my business or me, just ask and I'll confirm it or tell you what I know.
I want investors to be able to access good unbiased information and competant reliable experts to help them achieve their goals. As far as I know I am the only site in Australia doing this without bias nor affiliation, beholding to no one. I can make a living and I will make a diferance. Join me or not, I invite you and anyone else to do the right thing.
I believe in ethical and moral business behaviour, Investors begged me to take up this challange and it has been very rewarding so far... it will continue, what the investors want will be researched and provided.
Sorry but I'm .... driven.
I ask, I question, I will not be cast aside.
Think
Way to go TOTS and thank you very much for that. I hope you are successful at what you are trying to achieve, my problem however is as long as fair, ethical, hard working, decent real estate agents aren't thrown into the mud slinging, and typically this is the outcome.
The problems just aren't as simple as agents are naughty or nice. The problems come about from a myriad of complex situations ie An owner has an inflated opinion of the property worth. How does an honest agent tell this to an owner, within a reasonable time frame and still get compensated for their efforts. How do you give feedback to an owner when the property has been poorly looked after for an extended period of time, yet they think it is almost display home quality. It's possible, I do it, but not everyone has the people skills to handle it, nor will many Principals provide the right training to their staff to learn the skills.
I love my industry, it is my passion (hence why I am sitting here after midnight discussing this). The problems that lie within are just not simple to solve. Time issues, pools of buyers and tradition will see to it that RE salespeople won't be going away, they are a vital part of most owners needs to transact. Improving their performance and better education to the public..... well, good luck. To do that and be truly independant, mmmmmmmm where's the money for publicity coming from?
Thanks for telling us more about yourself. Now can I go to bloody bed please! zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Kev
www.nundahrealestate.com.au
The problems just aren't as simple as agents are naughty or nice. The problems come about from a myriad of complex situations ie An owner has an inflated opinion of the property worth. How does an honest agent tell this to an owner, within a reasonable time frame and still get compensated for their efforts. How do you give feedback to an owner when the property has been poorly looked after for an extended period of time, yet they think it is almost display home quality. It's possible, I do it, but not everyone has the people skills to handle it, nor will many Principals provide the right training to their staff to learn the skills.
I love my industry, it is my passion (hence why I am sitting here after midnight discussing this). The problems that lie within are just not simple to solve. Time issues, pools of buyers and tradition will see to it that RE salespeople won't be going away, they are a vital part of most owners needs to transact. Improving their performance and better education to the public..... well, good luck. To do that and be truly independant, mmmmmmmm where's the money for publicity coming from?
Thanks for telling us more about yourself. Now can I go to bloody bed please!
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzKev
www.nundahrealestate.com.au
Hi Tots
I'm glad you came out of your shell and tolds us abit about what you do.
What you have to realize, is that in this forum you may get your novice investor who may listen to you and what you have say, but there are also alot of experienced and hardened investors here who will not tolerate someone giving advice and opininons without exposing their sources or at least stating what experience they have. You have been giving the forum your suggestions and opininons, but you have been hiding behind a cloud of mystery. If you do this you will not be treated with the respect you possibly deserve.
Another thing the veteran forumites here hate, is if you give a broad opinion and then state that for the specifics you have to call me, e-mail me or subscibe. Let me give you some advice, if you can't post the specifics here on the forum then don't post it at all.
I'm not trying to attack you here, just trying to help you understand how this forum operates. I'm pretty new here as well but there is a certain etiquette that is followed by everybody when it comes to giving and recieving information. You obviously want to contribute to this forum which is great but be prepared to back up your opinions with facts, by posting them on this forum, if you want to be taken seriously.
Now back to the Jenman agents, does anyone, including you TOTS, know where I can get a list of Jenman agents in Sydney ?
Regards
Investor
I'm glad you came out of your shell and tolds us abit about what you do.
What you have to realize, is that in this forum you may get your novice investor who may listen to you and what you have say, but there are also alot of experienced and hardened investors here who will not tolerate someone giving advice and opininons without exposing their sources or at least stating what experience they have. You have been giving the forum your suggestions and opininons, but you have been hiding behind a cloud of mystery. If you do this you will not be treated with the respect you possibly deserve.
Another thing the veteran forumites here hate, is if you give a broad opinion and then state that for the specifics you have to call me, e-mail me or subscibe. Let me give you some advice, if you can't post the specifics here on the forum then don't post it at all.
I'm not trying to attack you here, just trying to help you understand how this forum operates. I'm pretty new here as well but there is a certain etiquette that is followed by everybody when it comes to giving and recieving information. You obviously want to contribute to this forum which is great but be prepared to back up your opinions with facts, by posting them on this forum, if you want to be taken seriously.
Now back to the Jenman agents, does anyone, including you TOTS, know where I can get a list of Jenman agents in Sydney ?
Regards
Investor
B
brains
Guest
Im not in real estate, but it seems to me that any real estate office that cant survive without its rent roll possibly deserves to go out of business.
Investor thanks valid crits. I only did'nt want to be seen to be pushing my business... however I see and certainly understand what you are saying. I will be more specific or I'll shut up.
I am new to these chat sessions and value them highly.
Thanks again.
As far as a list of Jenman Agents, if you go to the Jenman site www.jenman.com.au (I think) there is a 1800 ph. no. they will give you the nearest JA for you.... don't know they will give you a list as JA have a fixed teritory and are not keen to have buyers and sellers wandering around unescorted.
valid crits. I only did'nt want to be seen to be pushing my business... however I see and certainly understand what you are saying. I will be more specific or I'll shut up.I am new to these chat sessions and value them highly.
Thanks again.
As far as a list of Jenman Agents, if you go to the Jenman site www.jenman.com.au (I think) there is a 1800 ph. no. they will give you the nearest JA for you.... don't know they will give you a list as JA have a fixed teritory and are not keen to have buyers and sellers wandering around unescorted.
You are obviously correct Brains because that's exactly what happened. Neil no longer pushes this same hard line. Most of those offices that did sell their rent rolls and survived have indeed begun again.
It's not necessarily just about surviving though. A rent roll is about 90% of a real estate office's value. Each management (each area is different) is worth, let's say $1500 (Brisbane value's). If you can build a portfolio of say 300 and then wanted to sell and retire you would receive about $450k for the rentals, stock value which in RE is not much, maybe 50k, and goodwill is bugger all. Especially in a Jenman office where they are encouraged to be independant and use their name ie Kevin Hockey Real Estate. Take out the owner and there goes any goodwill.
So now, without managements, there's no retirement on an island in the pacific (hee hee). Yes there is plenty of money to be made just by selling, but it's just like saying the fish n chips shop down the road should be able to survive on selling fish, chips and burgers and doesn't need to sell drinks.
Have a great day guys, I have to go sell some houses.
Kev
www.nundahrealestate.com.au
It's not necessarily just about surviving though. A rent roll is about 90% of a real estate office's value. Each management (each area is different) is worth, let's say $1500 (Brisbane value's). If you can build a portfolio of say 300 and then wanted to sell and retire you would receive about $450k for the rentals, stock value which in RE is not much, maybe 50k, and goodwill is bugger all. Especially in a Jenman office where they are encouraged to be independant and use their name ie Kevin Hockey Real Estate. Take out the owner and there goes any goodwill.
So now, without managements, there's no retirement on an island in the pacific (hee hee). Yes there is plenty of money to be made just by selling, but it's just like saying the fish n chips shop down the road should be able to survive on selling fish, chips and burgers and doesn't need to sell drinks.
Have a great day guys, I have to go sell some houses.
Kev
www.nundahrealestate.com.au
Several years ago a large local agent in the Diamond Valley in Vic. sold it's rent roll of 1600 properties approx. for $3mill approx. The owner wanted to go into development, so his 5 odd franchisee offices as well as the main office was not able to operate a rent roll for 5 years approx. In that time they could only make money from sales, they have since gone from No. 1 agent to very much a 4-5 in the market place and several of the franchisees have changed camps or closed.
It is possible to make money from sales only but it requires a total rethink of how the agency works. Over head cuts etc.
HAGD (Have A Great Day)
It is possible to make money from sales only but it requires a total rethink of how the agency works. Over head cuts etc.
HAGD (Have A Great Day)
Mondie,
From what I heard Jenman doesn't like the hassles assoc with tenants- too much work, as far as he's concerned.
Personally, I think good PM's are worth their weight in gold, as it wouldn't be easy dealing with some of the lowlives out there who work the system and take landlords for a ride (one of my current tenants, for example, who hasn't paid rent since Christmas, has no intention of moving or paying and is breaking so many lease conditions it's not funny.....) PM's are really in a different category to salespeople and need to be trained as such.
TOTS, as has already been mentioned, we value transparency on this forum and skepticism is the middle name of many here. Healthy and curious questioning is often the only way to weed out the truth and, though I look forward to hearing more about your business (sounds intriguing), I would also welcome more facts about the "wholesale buying" that you are advocating. A truly great deal will win you many buyers!
I like your name "Think outside the square", as it suits the investing technique of many who post here on a regular basis. Welcome to the forum
From what I heard Jenman doesn't like the hassles assoc with tenants- too much work, as far as he's concerned.
Personally, I think good PM's are worth their weight in gold, as it wouldn't be easy dealing with some of the lowlives out there who work the system and take landlords for a ride (one of my current tenants, for example, who hasn't paid rent since Christmas, has no intention of moving or paying and is breaking so many lease conditions it's not funny.....) PM's are really in a different category to salespeople and need to be trained as such.
TOTS, as has already been mentioned, we value transparency on this forum and skepticism is the middle name of many here. Healthy and curious questioning is often the only way to weed out the truth and, though I look forward to hearing more about your business (sounds intriguing), I would also welcome more facts about the "wholesale buying" that you are advocating. A truly great deal will win you many buyers!
I like your name "Think outside the square", as it suits the investing technique of many who post here on a regular basis. Welcome to the forum
Jacque I appreciate the kind words and accept the crit. I'm new to this but you guys are puttingg me straight quickly... thanks
If you really want to understand Jenman you have to know the industry and how he came into being... by the way be as skeptical as you like, I wish to inform and not mystify.
There are a number of legal battles happening in Victoria at the moment, that if successful will impact on the national RE Industry. How would you like to remove perhaps 2/3rds of the agents from the market? There is also a movement to expand flat rate agents and best of all the introduction of true wholesale property. The competition would still be there, but the volume of agents would decrease.
If you really want to understand Jenman you have to know the industry and how he came into being... by the way be as skeptical as you like, I wish to inform and not mystify.
There are a number of legal battles happening in Victoria at the moment, that if successful will impact on the national RE Industry. How would you like to remove perhaps 2/3rds of the agents from the market? There is also a movement to expand flat rate agents and best of all the introduction of true wholesale property. The competition would still be there, but the volume of agents would decrease.
Lawyers have been trying to get access to the agents relm for a long time with out success. However there have been gains and Jenmans retoric is about publicity, self promotion... In Vic. if you act like an agent without a license you can be fined up to $50,000. Lawyers are in a position to act in the best interests of their clients, follow their directions... and sell their property.
Jenman is under attack at the moment by new groups like Set Sale etc. It ain't gettin any easier for the agents....
Jenman is under attack at the moment by new groups like Set Sale etc. It ain't gettin any easier for the agents....
TOTS if there has been any significant gains in the industry I don't believe it has come because of David Pilling or Neil Jenman. The industry doesn't need radicals to beat their own cause under an illusion they are doing it in the publics best interest.
The person who I believe is showing the industry how they can be successful, honest and ethical is John McGrath. I have attended many of his sessions, read his book and listened to tapes etc, and he always insists on a high standard.
Like everything, there will be those who have had bad experiences with McGrath's as well, but a positive approach without the mud slinging and from someone who has crediblity I think would be a start in the right direction.
It's all about training in my opinion. I was lucky, I had a good role model in the beginning, plenty of others don't. I do know Real Estate bashing just ain't gunna do it. And anyone who goes that road loses my respect immediately, the same as most people.
Kev
www.nundahrealestate.com.au
The person who I believe is showing the industry how they can be successful, honest and ethical is John McGrath. I have attended many of his sessions, read his book and listened to tapes etc, and he always insists on a high standard.
Like everything, there will be those who have had bad experiences with McGrath's as well, but a positive approach without the mud slinging and from someone who has crediblity I think would be a start in the right direction.
It's all about training in my opinion. I was lucky, I had a good role model in the beginning, plenty of others don't. I do know Real Estate bashing just ain't gunna do it. And anyone who goes that road loses my respect immediately, the same as most people.
Kev
www.nundahrealestate.com.au
B
brains
Guest
"I do know Real Estate bashing just ain't gunna do it. And anyone who goes that road loses my respect immediately, the same as most people. "
Kevin, Love your work, but does the above mean you have no respect for approximatley 99% of the adult population of Australia?
Kevin, Love your work, but does the above mean you have no respect for approximatley 99% of the adult population of Australia?
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