Neil Jenman

Originally posted by Kevin Hockey
TOTS if there has been any significant gains in the industry I don't believe it has come because of David Pilling or Neil Jenman. The industry doesn't need radicals to beat their own cause under an illusion they are doing it in the publics best interest.

www.nundahrealestate.com.au
Click to expand...

Kev I agree to a point, don't confuse criticism's with bashing, "brains" has a point, and remember McGrath is still operating under the current RE system. Training is good and I'm all for professionalism, if the system is good and fair... I and the vast majority of the public clearly don't believe it is.

Perhaps a change, while not popular with the Industry would be best for the public. Perhaps set fees, flat fees or ????? John McGrath is certainly successful and a good agent... does that mean he is good for the public?

I have many poll's as well as those done annualy that always place agents, politicians and car salesman as the most deceptive or least respected. Do think the industry needs reform?
 
Thanks Brains, and I do understand what you mean, however, every time I go to a party or social event and someone asks me what I do, the response is always positive and friendly. Although surveys suggest we are unpopular I don't ever get that reaction. I guess I try to take that as a positive.

Hi TOTS - I feel I need to try and diplomatically make a point here. Agents work for those who are paying us and sometimes/ often this is where the problem lies. Buyers are relying on the info provided by someone who is representing the other party. This is not an excuse for lying, deception etc, but we should always keep that in mind. No-one needs to tell me what goes on in the industry, I see it everyday, but not every complaint is an agents fault either.

Yeah I know, I'm looking at it from my side and I'm not gunna get too much sympathy here am I. :D

It's always worth a try I guess..

Kev

www.nundahrealestate.com.au
 
Kev I hope your sitting down, but I must agree! Unless you've worked in an agency you can't understand the games that happen from both sides of the counter.
I worked for an agency, had my own agency, consulted to agencies, developers and the public. The lies are certainly wide spread and the agent can often be the meat in the sandwich.
What do you suggest?
 
Sorry TOTS, I didn't notice your question at the end. Whether the industry needs reform, I'll leave that to others to decide. I don't understand what the issue is over commissions though. As it is in all states other than Qld it is deregulated. Owners can negotiate to a figure as low as they like, and there's plenty of them who are happy to do it for nothing. Cutting commissions is catching on up here now too, just not by me.

Do you feel we are grossly over compensated for what we do?

I don't feel we are. My family has sacrificed immensely because of the hours I have put into my career, especially my 2 boys. To be successful and earn a high income in this industry you will have to sacrifice a lot. Then there's the costs too, can't be a good salesperson and drive an old car. Mobile phones, advertising of your self, licences and training the list goes on.

My point about McGrath is he is training people to work within the industry but to do it with integrity, and that's what I believe we need. The best agents are those who realise the only way to really succeed is to have repeat business and referals, and you can't do that if you are cheating and deceiving your clients and customers.

Kev


www.nundahrealestate.com.au
 
I believe it can be done and I will try to make it happen. But I agree that there are significant overheads however, I don't believe there is room for bad agents, there will always be a place for RE Agent but perhaps under a different system...Scottish perhaps or the Vendor system or perhaps the Traditional agent structure with less players. But structures like Jenman, Pilling and FSBO have basic flaws which will ultimately leave them wanting.
 
Hello Stephen,

My name is John. I have followed your comments on this site with interest re integrity and doing your bit to change the industry.

I wonder about ones integrity when I see posts such as.......

"After information on Henry K etc. (post #1)

If anyone can assist with information on this Guru please let me know [email protected]"

"Seminars - What is a scam, inform me please! (post #1)

It's a nightmare out there, I am being told that I can get rich by following this Guru and that seminar. Then I'm told how it is a rip off and you need a good planner... who do you trust and why?"

You then go on in later posts to reveal what you are actually seeking, in order that you may use this forum as a source for your income producing website...... and I quote.....

"The second part of the web site is for subscribers only, providing information as in these forums, plus scams, schemes, seminar shonks, frauds, get rich quick cautions, etc,etc,etc. objective forums on investment options, whats available, who does it, how it works, risk analysis etc,etc. availability of true wholesale property.... no agents fees, no marketing fees...etc.etc.etc."

I wonder how many of these seminars you have attended and paid for yourself, in order to gain the material you seek.

Any other means of generating an income from the material you would otherwise obtain would make you no different to the seminars speakers ie 'recycling information that is otherwise available, with their own experience added to give it THEIR perspective??????????????????'
 
Originally posted by New Dad Soon
Hello Stephen,

My name is John. I have followed your comments on this site with interest re integrity and doing your bit to change the industry.

I wonder about ones integrity
You go on in later posts to reveal what you are actually seeking, in order that you may use this forum as a source for your income producing website......

I wonder how many of these seminars you have attended and paid for yourself, in order to gain the material you seek.

Any other means of generating an income from the material you would otherwise obtain would make you no different to the seminars speakers ie 'recycling information that is otherwise available, with their own experience added to give it THEIR perspective??????????????????'
Click to expand...

John I'm a little lost with what you are saying.... lets take it slow with what you are suggesting, after all I'm no "guru". I was asked very directly to say who I was and what I did for a living, having explained that and the fact I didn't want to use this forum to promote my business. Since then I seem to been questioned by people who haven't explained who they are, what they do or what there agenda is.

I have openly answered all questions asked, and yet you want to discuss integrity.

Do you feel I have a hidden agenda? Or is it that you don't like the questions I ask or the answers given?

I do research lots of areas including seminars, web sites, businesses, ASIC, ACCC, Accountants, Solicitors, Lawyers, Financial Planners, Financial Advisors, Finance Brokers, Banks and Other Finance Institutions, Property Groups, Property Guru's, Real Estate Groups, Agencies, Investors, Developers, Builders etc. All for my subscribers and the benefit of the public via the free section of the up coming web site.

Are you one of the above? Your profile says nothing, very easy to be critical... something about throwing stones. I've made mistakes, taken risks, had wins and loses. I've learnt and am still learning, I want to take that information to improve the RE industry, and protect investors from "Predators".

Is this genuine desire to help investors and the public some plot or sinister behaviour... I'm a little lost! I don't mind crits. but please explain my folly a little clearer please?

As I stated I make money one way, my subscribers! If I don't produce I don't have subscribers or a business. If the administrator has the slightest issue with anything I say or intimate, I would expect to be sent packing, is the information I've given been inaccurate? Opinions are another matter, but I don't expect to get hung for a differing opinion.

So I welcome your interest but not the implication.
:confused:
 
Last edited:
Originally posted by TOTS
John I'm a little lost with what you are saying.... lets take it slow with what you are suggesting, after all I'm no "guru". I was asked very directly to say who I was and what I did for a living, having explained that and the fact I didn't want to use this forum to promote my business.

All for my subscribers and the benefit of the public via the free section of the up coming web site.

Are you one of the above? Your profile says nothing, very easy to be critical... something about throwing stones.

Is this genuine desire to help investors and the public some plot or sinister behaviour... I'm a little lost! I don't mind crits. but please explain my folly a little clearer please?

As I stated I make money one way, my subscribers! If I don't produce I don't have subscribers or a business. If the administrator has the slightest issue with anything I say or intimate, I would expect to be sent packing, is the information I've given been inaccurate? Opinions are another matter, but I don't expect to get hung for a differing opinion.

So I welcome your interest but not the implication.
:confused:
Click to expand...

Stephen

I do not sit in judgement...... unlike the 'implication'........but I see that you have yet to refute or answer my point.

You have posed as a 'newbie' by placing posts in several different forums within this site..... particularly the 'it's a nightmare out there'........ (here is another)

"Alan Burlock & Aussie Invest (post #1)

Alan Burlock? What does anyone know about this individual and http://www.invests.com.au/alan.html any and all comments welcome +or- thanks."

Only when questioned have you owned up to seeking material for your web site. You have indeed stated that you will earn money out of it...... and I certainly didn't call you a 'guru'.

What I do question..... is those that hold themselves out as righteous exposers of those crooked scammers, who themselves pose as that which they are not.

You are not using this forum to promote your business, but that isn't what I said...... I questioned the morality of launching a business based on an authoritive position (purported) and charging a fee for it, when the information being sold is not your own.

In the above you are now implying that the information gathered is part of the free section of your site...... yet previously you said....

"The second part of the web site is for subscribers only, providing information as in these forums, plus scams, schemes, seminar shonks, frauds, get rich quick cautions, etc,etc,etc. objective forums on investment options, whats available, who does it, how it works, risk analysis etc,etc. availability of true wholesale property.... no agents fees, no marketing fees...etc.etc.etc."

In my book, that is gathering opinions and recycling them rather than participating in the courses themselves, and certainly didn't sound free.

If you have participated in those courses and PAID THE MONEY then your business will be founded on knowledge and experience. Anything else is just hearsay.

OH....... my background is Law Enforcement and I have a sufficient number of properties (not posts).
 
John I have and continue to go to most seminars for evaluation. I thought by asking for information as a novice it may through up a different aspect worth checking. With respect get out of your head that I'm selling information from what I learn off this site.... that is far from what I do. I research and provide forums and discussion structures so people can be informed and make informed decisions and choices. The information that I have found hear raises issues to be checked, not followed, I certainly don't make money from someones idea or discussion hear, I agree if I did that I'd be pushing rumour and inuendo, it must be fact.

I only joined this forum last week and it is interesting, to broarden my research and investigative options. I am pleased to hear that you query my motives, but I must say I question yours as well "What I do question..... is those that hold themselves out as righteous exposers of those crooked scammers, who themselves pose as that which they are not." What is it that you think I am?

John you stated "In my book, that is gathering opinions and recycling them rather than participating in the courses themselves, and certainly didn't sound free." and "If you have participated in those courses and PAID THE MONEY then your business will be founded on knowledge and experience. Anything else is just hearsay."

As I already stated I regularly attend seminars and sometimes pay the money, although this is not always necessary as I am invited by the operators as a guest to asses it for myself. I pay and attend because it is what my subscribers want me to do, and it is only the first step in the research process. I certainly am not rehashing others opinions, but thanks for letting me clear that up. Now you know my business is founded on knowledge and experience.

If I don't know about something or someone I find out so I can report back to my subscriber(s) that raised the issue. I constantly look for new issues that will be of interest to the subscribers, be as cynical as you like but don't shoot the messenger.

I can only repeat that I am doing this for the right reasons, that is why I have cut myself off from receiving referal fees or financial kick backs, trailors, leaders or finder fees. Hey if you find a problem don't join, thats fine, however, I'm not running a scam, scheme, fraud or shonk. I look at what is being offered, asses it, research it, validate it and if there is a problem report it, after I have adressed the issues with that person or business.

My opinions, my research, my evidence, your choice. I wish to improve the business and offer more services so any suggestions are welcome. If your background is Law Enforcement, whats your forground? Bad joke sorry.... :D. I feel you have issues with me but I am at a loss to do anything but respond. If anyone else has comments I will be glad to hear them, as long as it isn't a spanish inquirsition.

Boy it's a long day already, not even time for a drink. Have a good day guy's
 
Hello Stephen

I wonder why you would get invited to these seminars to assess them for yourself, if you are not holding yourself out as an authority on seminar scams?

So you sometimes pay. Very good. And you sometimes deceive............ just to get a better amount of feedback (I thought by asking for information as a novice it may through up a different aspect worth checking).

My motives.......hmmmm......objecting pointedly to those who represent themselves as one thing, when they are clearly something else...... whether that is giving advice while owning NO PROPERTY....... or warning people off investments/seminars/etc that you have not actually participated in

"If I don't know about something or someone I find out so I can report back to my subscriber(s) that raised the issue. I constantly look for new issues that will be of interest to the subscribers"

If you are genuinely looking to help your subscribers, and I see by one of your other posts you are offering warnings about some bloke named Alan Burlock......... offer up the REASONS based on your own experience. If you haven't got the experience, ie you haven't done a JV with this guy, then pay the money and do so.

(Running a business involves outlays in the form of Capital to establish yourself, which include the costs of research. As anyone knows, you don't start a business overnight without some form of outlay).

By constantly looking for new issues that will interest your subscribers (your words) you are soliciting information as you have done in this forum that you are then charging for (subscription = payment).

You have some real estate experience from your posts that I see, yet you are not a buyers advocate. If you are genuine about looking after your subscribers, become an advocate and get out there and work on their behalf. At least then you can speak with first hand experience....... and it would only be a matter of time before you are an authority......
 
Hi New Dad Soon, if by your name you have a child on its way, congrats, I hope all is going well. Welcome to the forum also, not that I've been here long myself.

As you would know I have been debating things here myself, but would like to defend TOTS a little if I may, assuming I have read you correctly. We should all attend training, seminars and whatever we made need to better our own knowledge and sometimes you may even use material gathered to express your own views, I can't see any problem with that, it's all about learning. As someone else in the forum said "Life is a problem, living is about solving it". Your first post also seemed to be very direct, I would prefer to judge someone once I have listened fully to what they have to say and preferably meet them in person.

I have enjoyed reading TOTS posts, sometimes I agree, sometimes not. It's hard to judge someone from a few forum notes though. Overall I believe TOTS makes some very valid points and as we all do, he makes his suggestions from his experiences and beliefs. Surely thats what we are all about. I'm here to learn, and god knows I'll use this knowledge and pass on what I've learnt, publicly and privately.


Kev



www.nundahrealestate.com.au
 
Hello Kevin

Thank you very much for your best wishes. Only a few weeks to go, then less sleep than I get now.

Having been a member of the site for some time, I generally do not comment on peoples opinions, whether I agree with them or not. Without intrusive questioning, you will never know if the person offering the advice is a player or a talker, and as you say, a face to face meeting is often better.

(My only previous posts have been in response to a spanish inquisition initiated by a post from economic, where some forumites chose to interogate others).

I do not at all wish TOTS to think he is not welcome, valued or otherwise appreciated in trying to assist the other forumites.

Anyone who reads my posts carefully will see the issue is not his comments (which I agree with), rather the way in introducing himself to the forum. I also expressed a direct observation, not a demand for information.

My initial post stands, was correct and agreed to by TOTS, in that he misrepresented himself to the forumites in order to gain feedback. That is nothing to do with his valid opinions, suggestions, experiences and beliefs.

We are as you say all here to help each other, and the opinions and assistance offered by numerous members is invaluable.

That said....I guess I am direct when someone poses as a newbie who plainly is not..........
 
New Dad Soon, I'm (almost) speachless... i can only assue here that there is a hidden agenda behind your comments. I've been open, honest and pleased with the general debate on this forum, unfortunately you have decided that I'm satin and I spread words of evil. I don't assume to know you and would be pleased to discuss anything at length with you, however I think any further comments will not help the issues here.
I think it's healthy to have discussion, but be honest and constructive not deceptive as you accuse me. Who are you? Where do you work and why am I the anti christ?
You have taken quotes I made and have come to a conclusion that is just wrong. Perhaps I still haven't made my points clear enough or your point of view is jaded, either way I assure you you are wrong!
I get invited to these seminars because I have contacted those operating them, informed them as to who I am, what I do, and what I am concerned about... as per subscribers concerns or mine. I inform them of my intention to attend and asses a future seminar or course. They either invite me as a guest or I pay... please tell me where the error is? Do you know the meaning of research or have you heard of mystery shopping or benchmarking? It is clear by your accusations that you don't know me or what I stand for, nor what seminars etc I've attended... Judge me not lest yee be judged.. I've been open and you?
Your other comments are ridiculious regarding business and overheads you do not know my operation or structure, again you don't know what is done with the information, how it is processed or used.
I have been an advocate, and I now feel you are definately disturbed, angry or put up to this fess up... whats crawled up your orifice?
The best suggestion I can offer you is DONT SUBSCRIBE! Complain about the weather or the cost of living, Taxes or just get a good sleep... you may wake up one the right side of the bed.
If I wronged you I am sorry but gee get a grip.

Kev... Thanks ... is that clear thinking! Didn't we discuss agents and and some of the problems with clients its not all one way... :D :D :D Perhaps it will be clearer when thee web site is up... talked with the internet people today looks like a couple of weeks yet. Have a great day... is the cup half empty?:confused:
 
New Dad Soon,

If you were offended by the way TOTS introduced himself- bear in mind that I am the only person who responded to him as a beginner- see http://www.somersoft.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6131

I was rather hurt by responding to him as a beginner, then finding out he was just fishing. I certainly don't think it was a good way of coming in fresh into a forum.

However, he did out himself very quickly- and perhaps I should have checked his profile before posting. When I did check, it wa sthere- I don't know if it was at the start, but it was there not too much later.

I found out not very long after I responded that he was not what he said he was. I did edit my response a little, but not much. I do stand by what I said, no matter what I thought he was at the time.

Mistakes were made, but let's leave this subject where it is now.
 
I guess time will tell if the fisherman will bring in a catch or turn into another scum sucking bottom dweller that he wants to catch.

sceptics -r-us

bundy
 
I looked into the Crisco idea, not to buy it, but just out of interest.

I found it funny that they were advertising their special packs for something like $200 OR an advertised special of $18.20 per month for 11 months...

Well, if you do the math, you are actually paying $0.22 cents more to pay it off on the "Christmas special" than if you bought it outright, and obviously more than if you went and bought all the ingredients in a store.

BUT

I have to say, I thought it over and decided that this is a method of wrapping Christmas hampers (pun intended :) ).

If you are a pensioner, and the thought of $200 all at once is too much, why not pay it off over 11 months. Fair enough, you could put the money in a jar, and at the end of 11 months buy more than what they are offerring, but the reality of it is that ppl don't do that.

I guess this is a method of ensuring Christmas dinner for some.

Would you condemn ppl who buy wrapped properties? No. (Well, I wouldn't anyway). They, too, know that they are paying over the current market value of their properties, but do it anyway, to have peace of mind, and the knowledge of what they are buying.

I see it as much the same thing.

just my thoughts...

asy :D
 
I hope it's a long time before I have another day to rival this... I thank you all for the chance to be human. I am sure this will improve thingsssss. I think I'll try and lay down now asy.

geoffw they were my mistakes and I thank and appoligise to you at the same time.....

Peace on earth....
 

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