Or a problem student.
OECD report says australian private schools offer no accademic advantage
- Thread starter Esel
- Start date
Or a problem student.
This thread poses an interesting question should we be discussing private vs public at all?
Is the issue here is really about teaching and the system in public sector, am I right?
We know that in the public system, teachers can not be sacked, if they are not performing they get moved sideways to another school. Therefore, these children get stuck with poor teachers. I am not saying that all teachers in public schools are bad, however from what I have witnessed an adequate system needs to be in place.
I think in USA some time ago now, they tried to revamp the public education system where teachers could be sacked if not performing adequately and teachers performance was reviewed every year.
This is not a witch hunt, I know there are great teachers out there, just throwing it out there.
From my experience bad/poor performing teachers were never dismissed, and parents complaints were ignored.
MTR
Is the issue here is really about teaching and the system in public sector, am I right?
We know that in the public system, teachers can not be sacked, if they are not performing they get moved sideways to another school. Therefore, these children get stuck with poor teachers. I am not saying that all teachers in public schools are bad, however from what I have witnessed an adequate system needs to be in place.
I think in USA some time ago now, they tried to revamp the public education system where teachers could be sacked if not performing adequately and teachers performance was reviewed every year.
This is not a witch hunt, I know there are great teachers out there, just throwing it out there.
From my experience bad/poor performing teachers were never dismissed, and parents complaints were ignored.
MTR
Page four.
Only another six to go.
Might need someone to say something outrageous.
Only another six to go.
Might need someone to say something outrageous.
My kids go to a public primary school. It amazes me the effort most teachers put in. Needless to say that the school is highly regarded.
Also, what I have noticed on some high profile public schools are, it's all about keeping their high profile (one of my friends kids go to one of these schools and the school as "take it or leave it" attitude). Probably not a lot of attention given on the well being of the students. High academic achievements doesn't necessarily mean the kids are well looked after.
Also, what I have noticed on some high profile public schools are, it's all about keeping their high profile (one of my friends kids go to one of these schools and the school as "take it or leave it" attitude). Probably not a lot of attention given on the well being of the students. High academic achievements doesn't necessarily mean the kids are well looked after.
That is silly, now we compare an IP performance to public/private school performance.
I need now to be educated on investment strategies
Not public/ private school performance but the child's performance. It is the child you are investing your money in by way of selecting a particular school to achieve the outcomes you desire for your child.
What do you (not you personally) want your child to get out of their educational experience?
Nope. That was just one part of the study, and the least interesting IMO. The article mentions homework, early years funding and private vs public ed.
Education does not only include school/s
I want what they actually want to achieve, their goals/aspirations, if that makes sense.
What they want to achieve, not what I want them to achieve. Only they can do this, not me regardless of choice.
My son goes to the local public primary, which did very well in the recent NAPLAN testing, and my son is well above average by school standards. That said, we live in a wealthy area with lots of professional parents, many of whom push education as being important.
We don't have a local high school, so I have enrolled my son in private school. In the event that we can't find a good public high school (that meets our standards) he will be off to private school from year 7 onwards. We have the same plan for our daughter.
Although our school does well, and is well resourced, I am not particularly impressed by the standard of teaching there. Perhaps I am being too hard on them, but all but one of the teachers my son has had so far wouldn't last 5 minutes in a genuinely professional environment where consistent performance actually mattered. I am hoping the standard of teaching at the private school will be better.
We don't have a local high school, so I have enrolled my son in private school. In the event that we can't find a good public high school (that meets our standards) he will be off to private school from year 7 onwards. We have the same plan for our daughter.
Although our school does well, and is well resourced, I am not particularly impressed by the standard of teaching there. Perhaps I am being too hard on them, but all but one of the teachers my son has had so far wouldn't last 5 minutes in a genuinely professional environment where consistent performance actually mattered. I am hoping the standard of teaching at the private school will be better.
I often hear the line about private schools being able to move on 'crap' teachers. The reality is that a huge number of public and private teachers are initially employed on contracts. It seems rare for new teachers at the school i work at be offered a permanent on going contract. Loads of them are replacing someone on maternity leave and in the public sector you can take 7 years, in the catholic 3 (vic). It might even be easier for gov schools to get rid of crap teachers if more of their workforce are employed on contracts.
Some teachers have a bad couple of years, illness, depression, divorce, babies etc..and dont perform like they used to. If this persists they get glowing references when they grow tired of being 'supported' and look for somewhere else.
In my experience, mediocre teachers are left alone in both systems.
So as a parent im not really worried about crap teachers as they are obvious to spot, occur randomly but not frequently (and from annocdotal experience i know that some ptestigious schools put 'the old boys network' ahead of teacher quality). As a parent im looking out for mediocrity. Are teachers just plodding along using the same techniques they were trained to 20 years ago? Are schools investing time and money on high quality professional development so their teaching is informed by the latest research and innovation or are they gliding along with good results based on the socio econoc advantage of their client group? I think the culture of a school is more important than any individual teacher's performance.
The myschool website has some data that attempts to show how much value a school is actually adding to the performance of their students. My local 25k school doesnt seem to be adding as much value as my local gov school although the VCE results are better. That means that student performance at year 9 is inline with their performancce in primary school and when compared to schools with a students of a similar socio-economic background the preformance is comparable (or lower). Good schools have students improving above expectations based on their previous naplan results or comparable schools..
Lastly, parents often believe that because private schools often pay more they can select the best teachers. This assumes that a private school can work out who are the best teachers and that the best want to work in private schools ahead of gov. I dont agree with either of these two assumptions.
Some teachers have a bad couple of years, illness, depression, divorce, babies etc..and dont perform like they used to. If this persists they get glowing references when they grow tired of being 'supported' and look for somewhere else.
In my experience, mediocre teachers are left alone in both systems.
So as a parent im not really worried about crap teachers as they are obvious to spot, occur randomly but not frequently (and from annocdotal experience i know that some ptestigious schools put 'the old boys network' ahead of teacher quality). As a parent im looking out for mediocrity. Are teachers just plodding along using the same techniques they were trained to 20 years ago? Are schools investing time and money on high quality professional development so their teaching is informed by the latest research and innovation or are they gliding along with good results based on the socio econoc advantage of their client group? I think the culture of a school is more important than any individual teacher's performance.
The myschool website has some data that attempts to show how much value a school is actually adding to the performance of their students. My local 25k school doesnt seem to be adding as much value as my local gov school although the VCE results are better. That means that student performance at year 9 is inline with their performancce in primary school and when compared to schools with a students of a similar socio-economic background the preformance is comparable (or lower). Good schools have students improving above expectations based on their previous naplan results or comparable schools..
Lastly, parents often believe that because private schools often pay more they can select the best teachers. This assumes that a private school can work out who are the best teachers and that the best want to work in private schools ahead of gov. I dont agree with either of these two assumptions.
I would definitely try to steer my children away from those people's children. lol. Those parents will get a shock when they find that they cannot control the friendships their children make. And if they're doing it to social climb, they will find that the only friends that they make are other social climbers. Nothing more unattractive than desperate wannabes.
If a child is going to do well, they will do well whether they go private or public, that is, if it's a good public school. My children had all kinds of friends--kids from low socio-economic backgrounds to very wealthy. I trusted their judgement and didn't try to interfere. Money doesn't make a child nice, good, kind; it's how they are raised that matters.
That sounds good,just avoid the big subjects that may hurt their future I still have the last bill framed in front of me on my fibro humpy day office wall
it was over 5k for the last term at a inner-private-catholic-school that was the last bill we paided 5 years ago..
I think it was worth every cent from grade one till 12,our daughters all went to the same school made mates and contacts that they will keep for the rest of their life,all their mates went onto uni three now have degrees one going back teaching at the school she started in ,one 2 years to go then she will be a psychologist ..I Told them many times sitting around the dinner table it was so easy for me in the early 1970's I went to a public school passed grade ten went on the do a tafe trade as a plumber then my run my own sideshow sole trader business,very big difference today because a massive amount of work as we know it today will not be there in 5-10 years because the demand for certainty is a intellectual vice..
"Be prepared for the future and the all the relevant eventualities come what may"..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YR5ApYxkU-U
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Agree with all this. A member of my wife's family tried to tell me that we should always get into the most expensive school we could for the networking our children would do. It might have worked a couple of generations ago but in b usiness it doesn't now. If anything, having everything lined up for you makes people less likely to believe your own claims of capability, if anything.
Esel, it sounds like you have already made your decision. You might have just been looking for a bit of confirmation. You're lucky you have a good local school (according to the Myschool website, at least).
Yep, i dont get the networking argument, especially in a country like australia with a very mobile workforce moving from rural to city or interstate or internationaly. What are these high paying industries that preference nepotism over qualifications, interviews, psychometric testing, experience etc? I dont know anyone in a well paid professional role who didnt have to jump through serious hoops and over hurdles to get a position (with the exception of family businesses and education). The job application process is always rigorous, with multiple people involved in the selection process. Its seems like such an old fashioned, small world notion that your mate can get you a desirable job. Even with things like contracts, theres a tenders process.
Really, how does the old school network work in a 21st century economy?
Yeah, it doesn't mean much these days. Probably helps kids some pretty good work experience opportunities in Year 10 or whenever they do that, but that's about it.
I'm in the IT business, and we do a lot of business development and staff recruitment through networks of people we have worked with. But I have never even heard of us recruiting or doing BD through old school networks (and I am a director in our company).
Your right, I've pretty much made my decision, but i will reasses nearer the time, as i think there are other benefits of private school and a lot can change in a few years in any school.
I wasnt looking for confirmation, more to explore (or provoke), the cognitive dissonance of a forum of people often motivated by money and used to making investment decisions based on cold hard facts and research. Seems to me that ultimately most people here are using private education in an attempt to secure a better financial position for their children but aren't using the available data or research as a basis for their decisiion. Just lots of assumptions, annacdotes and misinformation. Just seems odd to me when its such an expensive investment and the stakes are so high?
i dunno, kids are pretty impressionable, I was and still am
obviously if you got a top top piivate school, useless kids that dont study, fail and smoke cigarettes will get excluded eventuanlly, so maybe on AVERAGE, the quality of the friends your child makes will be better,
thats my guess
and you are right, money doesnt make better kids, it can often make spoilt, useless, sheltered people who cant function in society. if you rate your kids success on how much money they will earn when they become adults, then I think a private school is good for netwroking and hanging around the right people
but essentially, for me , its all about providing opportunites for them, none of my kids will become whiz bang business people, they are simply too simple and laid back......definitely not my dna, sometimes I think that they must have been adopted
