Speed fine - anyone experienced it?
- Thread starter TheAnalyst
- Start date
Not necessarily how they want, but you're right in that it would be more difficult to police if different drivers had different limits. The driver would need to display something indicating their experience (like P plates I guess), otherwise the police wouldn't know until after they'd pulled them over.
The thing is though, I don't think this is something that can easily be fixed just by changing little bits here and there. The whole system needs a major redesign, and by someone who's more concerned about traffic management and road safety than revenue (ie. not politicans or their lackeys). IMO, motorists need to be taught to drive, not to obey rules, as rules are inflexible and can never cover every situation.
And being a good driver is not about mechanical skills, but about perception, judgement, and yes... knowing your limitations. All that can be taught, and those who ignore it will also ignore road rules. I think the reason people suffer from cognitive bias in relation to their driving ability is because they haven't been taught to focus on the right things. Their vehicle handling skills are mostly irrelevant, yet that's what they're thinking about when they consider themselves above average.
GP
No, much more fun on winding downhill stretches of narrow mountain roads
The Y-man
Cruise control is great, nice constant speed every where, corners, straights, fantastic.
And our jails are full of innocent people who were framed. Yeah yeah yeah.
Not many people take on speeding fines because the court requires you to prove that you were not speeding, not for the cops to prove you were. Basically you will have to prove they acted illegally or that there was not speed limit applying to that stretch of road or that their radar is wrong.
Good luck.
Analyst, the only way you could contest the ticket is if you have clean driving history. Otherwise, in your case you probably shouldn't even bother.
You can also try these guys: http://www.speedingfineconsultants.com/ , they claim to have lots of experience. If you do decide to try them, I would be curious to hear the outcome.
I was considering trying their services when i got a ticket similar to yours (doing 140 or so on a highway), but then decided to just pay the fine, cause i was doing more than i got booked for anyway, and it was in another state, so in the end it would cost me much more to contest it, than the actual fine.
You can also try these guys: http://www.speedingfineconsultants.com/ , they claim to have lots of experience. If you do decide to try them, I would be curious to hear the outcome.
I was considering trying their services when i got a ticket similar to yours (doing 140 or so on a highway), but then decided to just pay the fine, cause i was doing more than i got booked for anyway, and it was in another state, so in the end it would cost me much more to contest it, than the actual fine.
I am curious to know what you were going to contest if you admit to going faster than 140 kmh?
The Analyst:
Lets look at the supposedly situation.
I'm driving an unmarked car at the speed limit. A vehicle then passes me exceeding the speed limit. Two options now follow. Option one is to hit lights and siren and issue a TIN for the minimal amount over the speed limits as I have only an estimate of your speed. 2nd option is too slowly accelerate until I'm travelling at the same speed and verify your speed by speedometer whilst also checking/using radar until I have the max speed registered.
When issued with your ticket and it also depends on the type of radar used there may be the speed of both cars registered including time frame.
There are a number of ways you can approach this through the courts but my best advise would be not to represent yourself if you have no understanding of court procedures or how to present evidence.
You can contact traffic operations or dept of prosecution and ask them for the information/details regarding your infringement.
On the day of proceedings you can ask to see the officers notes (not copies) taken at the time of infringement and detail of when radar and speedo were last calibrated. If any discrepancies then maybe you have a chance.
Personally the odds are stacked against you especially as you appear to have no clear indication of your speed or when the exact infringement occurred. There are too many possible variables for why you weren't pulled over immediately. They may have been waiting to see how much faster you would go, in shock from the total disbelief that someone just went passed them 30kmh over the limit, checking the details of vehicle to see if stolen or any out standing warrants against owner etc and the list goes on.
For those that love to go down the corrupt cop route, yes there are some but it is a low %.
Analyst you may be better off going and pleading guilty to lessen the fine and amount of demerit points, but have a good reason for why.
Lets look at the supposedly situation.
I'm driving an unmarked car at the speed limit. A vehicle then passes me exceeding the speed limit. Two options now follow. Option one is to hit lights and siren and issue a TIN for the minimal amount over the speed limits as I have only an estimate of your speed. 2nd option is too slowly accelerate until I'm travelling at the same speed and verify your speed by speedometer whilst also checking/using radar until I have the max speed registered.
When issued with your ticket and it also depends on the type of radar used there may be the speed of both cars registered including time frame.
There are a number of ways you can approach this through the courts but my best advise would be not to represent yourself if you have no understanding of court procedures or how to present evidence.
You can contact traffic operations or dept of prosecution and ask them for the information/details regarding your infringement.
On the day of proceedings you can ask to see the officers notes (not copies) taken at the time of infringement and detail of when radar and speedo were last calibrated. If any discrepancies then maybe you have a chance.
Personally the odds are stacked against you especially as you appear to have no clear indication of your speed or when the exact infringement occurred. There are too many possible variables for why you weren't pulled over immediately. They may have been waiting to see how much faster you would go, in shock from the total disbelief that someone just went passed them 30kmh over the limit, checking the details of vehicle to see if stolen or any out standing warrants against owner etc and the list goes on.
For those that love to go down the corrupt cop route, yes there are some but it is a low %.
Analyst you may be better off going and pleading guilty to lessen the fine and amount of demerit points, but have a good reason for why.
my mate got parking fine... put it under the wiper of the next car... the rego was not recorded on the slip.....
pulse
pulse, registration number may not be on ticket but rego label details should be noted on carbon copy in TIN/PIN book. A common misbelief is that if the ticket has mistakes then you are in the clear. A new ticket can be issued with all the correct details and the old one nullified. Have seen this a few times in the court when people try to claim not their vehicle because of one number wrong on rego etc Most people don't know rest of the details are recorded on a separate section. Magistrates see it as a waste of time and can or will instruct either a new ticket to be issued there and then or have the rest of the details accepted and impose a higher penalty.
I was at Potts Point NSW earlier this week. When I crossed the road on foot noticed a lone policeman in a police car using the speed radar. He was parked on the side street, aiming at the main road, right after a "50kmh" sign. As a car passed at maybe 70kmh and the radar goes beep beep beep, the police turn on his car engine, sirens on, drove up the road divided, sped down the road at about 120kmh!!
At the speed he was chasing, he was going much much faster than the offender at an area saying 50kmh! I mean, smokes coming out of his tyres, screeching sound, going up the road divider kerb......
Shouldn't he get a bigger fine?????
At the speed he was chasing, he was going much much faster than the offender at an area saying 50kmh! I mean, smokes coming out of his tyres, screeching sound, going up the road divider kerb......
Shouldn't he get a bigger fine?????
Request evidence of proof that the speed measuring device was calibrated, as law dictates, to the National Weights and Measurement Act 1960(?). Commonwealth legislation always overides state legislation.
As far as I am aware no speed measuring device is calibrated to this legislation, and many cases in Victoria have been put in abeyance by the courts on this point.
Perhaps a legal eagle could chime in on this point.
1. Many thanks.
2. I have been reading the ACT and few areas i can explore.
3. I have requested police to provide information but was rejected.
4. I have deicided to take on myself even without a lawyer. I returned the infringement notice in a registered mail.
5. I no longer reply those who has provided naive advice.
Thanks. This is one area I will be asking.
1. Request in writing that the police supply you with evidence of calibration of their speed measuring instruments to the Commonwealth Act. They cannot refuse.
2. Request that in court you are heard in Commonwealth jurisdiction. Generally the judge will refuse, which will give you grounds to appeal and use the Commonwelath Act.
3. Get in touch with your local community law resource group, that is constitution based, who generally know the real basic law and loopholes that most people do not know.
4. Remember, a judge is a judge. He/she is mediating, and making a judgement, between two (2) EQUAL persons - you and the police officer. Unfortunately, it generally does not work this way, and pointing it out to the judge can work either for or against you.
5. Generally, if the charge is up held against you, the fine will be no more than the original fine, and many times less. However, factor in court costs of circa $35-$100. Cheaper than a lawyer, and you have all the legal experience for the next time.
1. Request in writing that the police supply you with evidence of calibration of their speed measuring instruments to the Commonwealth Act. They cannot refuse.
2. Request that in court you are heard in Commonwealth jurisdiction. Generally the judge will refuse, which will give you grounds to appeal and use the Commonwelath Act.
3. Get in touch with your local community law resource group, that is constitution based, who generally know the real basic law and loopholes that most people do not know.
4. Remember, a judge is a judge. He/she is mediating, and making a judgement, between two (2) EQUAL persons - you and the police officer. Unfortunately, it generally does not work this way, and pointing it out to the judge can work either for or against you.
5. Generally, if the charge is up held against you, the fine will be no more than the original fine, and many times less. However, factor in court costs of circa $35-$100. Cheaper than a lawyer, and you have all the legal experience for the next time.
Thank you so so so much. I am bit worried the judge might take a pre-judged opinion (like those comments in this thread) on me -- that will be difficult for me to battle with both the judge and the police lawyer. I am just thinking through all those possible situation.
The reason I was thinking of using a lawyer was they knew the procedures as you said -- but they may not know how to argue if they are not traffic infringement expert. I think the later is more important.
OK, so you're going to defend the charge. By yourself, without any legal help.
You wanted some practical help, so here it is:
Speeding Fine Lawyer.
OK, it's in Victoria. But it's not my speeding fine. I just spent 60 seconds with Google. The person running that website (a lawyer) charges $250 for a consultation to get advice.
You have no idea about the law, you're asking in a property investment forum for advice, you're rejecting advice from anybody who doesn't agree with you, and you want to defend yourself in a court of law. According to that website, it can cost you between $1800 and $6000 to defend the charges. Is it worth it?
Or you pay the $700 and drive more carefully. You still have your licence.
That will be $250 please.
Interesting that this guys main advice is hire a lawyer. I read his stuff and if I thought I was over the limit by that much I would just cop the fine - not worth the agro. Analyist - the police weren't out to get YOU specifically, they were after anyone who was exceeding the speed limit and it sounds like you made their job easy.
Spent a bit more time on the forum on the site suggested by GeoffW. 2 great quotes from the solicitor that runs it
"Now you know why I never believe a word my clients tell me..... Little wonder the magistrates don't either"
"I'm saying that clients often tell me what they assume happened, and those assumptions are usually wrong. So people who ask for advice based on incorrect assumptions get incorrect advice. I often get people telling me where the police speed trap was located, or what device they used, or what the police had seen when all they are doing is taking a wild guess. Some tell me they were detected by a speed camera, when it was not a camera but a hand held. Some say they went through a fixed camera, then the photo produced is clearly from a mobile camera. These differences are not trivial"
Interesting view
"Now you know why I never believe a word my clients tell me..... Little wonder the magistrates don't either"
"I'm saying that clients often tell me what they assume happened, and those assumptions are usually wrong. So people who ask for advice based on incorrect assumptions get incorrect advice. I often get people telling me where the police speed trap was located, or what device they used, or what the police had seen when all they are doing is taking a wild guess. Some tell me they were detected by a speed camera, when it was not a camera but a hand held. Some say they went through a fixed camera, then the photo produced is clearly from a mobile camera. These differences are not trivial"
Interesting view
