Tenant FURIOUS over delivery noise downstairs

[sydsider]

I have an unusual noise issue.

Directly below my apartment is a cafe that opens between 6:30am-4pm. The cafe belongs to the same building so falls under the same strata management. It appears the cafe gets deliveries at 3 every morning and it's been waking up my tenant and his partner who only just moved in last week. He wrote an email to my PM at 4:30 this morning and rang her again later and started yelling on the phone saying the delivery guy shut the gate so hard it shook his bed! He claims both I the landlord and the downstair cafe are in breach of *something something* agreement (can't remember what now) and is threatening to leave giving 14 day notice if this is not resolved immediately.

My PM said she'll see if she can get the strata manager to do anything. If not we'll just have to let him go and find a new tenant.

My concern is what if the next tenant has the same issue?

I had a look in the by-law and there's no mention of noise issues? Only my apartment is directly above the cafe. The others are either off to the side or higher up so I assume it might not be as noisy for others.

I've only recently purchased this place. The apartment was always used as a rental by the previous owner who held it for almost ten years and the last lot of tenants stayed for more than three years (according to the previous agent).

What are my rights against the cafe downstairs? I think they are only renting the premise. My tenants are pretty anal but are super clean so would like to keep them if I can.

Any input is much appreciated.

 

[skater]

The apartment was always used as a rental by the previous owner who held it for almost ten years and the last lot of tenants stayed for more than three years (according to the previous agent).

My tenants are pretty anal but are super clean so would like to keep them if I can.

.

You've said it all here. The previous tenants stayed for more than three years, so it can't be all that bad. Anal tenants are not good tenants. If it wasn't the noise, they would find something else to whinge about. Best move them on at the end of their lease.

Sounds like you need a tougher PM too.

 

[Aaron Sice]

they're living above a cafe - what the Ruddy hell did they expect?

it's like those folk that buy apartments next to pubs for the nightlife factor then want it shut down for the noise.

accept their 14 day termination. call their bluff.

 

[Luv2Travel]

Why do tenants bother their PM/landlord with this sort of nonsense? The types of complaints I get at work astound me. Sure some things are annoying, but what's it got to do with the owner?? If a neighbor is noisy, approach the neighbor, if there is noise outside, approach that. It's not the owners fault, and they'd experience exactly the same sort of thing if they owned the property themselves. Owners aren't God, they can't control everything!

 

[twobobsworth]

Agree with skater. Let them go and probably the PM.

 

[JennyP]

Some tenants, take every opportunity to take offence.

A great sense of entitlement, to someone else's property.

 

[Petal]

I think the breach they are referring to is "quiet enjoyment" but bloody hell they live above a cafe!!

 

[mja]

Point out that they could use living above a cafe as a positive - ie, great coffee within metres of their front door, or get the hell out of there. You don't control the noise, so you're not liable.

Maybe get your PM to warn future tenants that there may be some noise in the early hours of the morning. That'll weed out the whingers.

 

[Pa1nter]

If you choose to rent next to a train line,you expect trains noises

 

[Piston Broke]

What are my rights against the cafe downstairs? I think they are only renting the premise. My tenants are pretty anal but are super clean so would like to keep them if I can.
Any input is much appreciated.

Are you in the biz of running the cafe?
Are you in the biz of delivering to the cafe?
If not, do you have any control on how they run their biz?
If not, then wtf has it to do with you or any of your biz?
My guess is none.

So he wants to terminate the agreement?
As long as it follows the contract conditions, then fine.
Because, as stated above wtf can you do about it anyway? Not much.
City, shops, cbd = noize. None of us can change that.

From his side, he can always ask the people at the cafe to keep it down.
But he wants someone else to change his nappies.

The LL is not responsible for what others may do around the building.

Maybe get your PM to warn future tenants that there may be some noise in the early hours of the morning. That'll weed out the whingers.

Agree. Maybe not exactly "warn" then but just bring to their attention that there are busy shops underneath. And such a great busy location can't always be noise free.

 

[Dazz]

Maybe not exactly "warn" then but just bring to their attention that there are busy shops underneath

Indeed - while you are at it, you'll also need to bring to their attention that, if contemplating renting the place, then ;

1. There may be steps, and as such, they are a trip hazard. A sign would be appropriate at every step, just to be on the safe side.

2. Parking will be tight. A spot cannot be guaranteed by the Landlord 24hrs a day.

3. Cats may be heard at night.

4. Laughter and human voices may be heard.

5. A peeping tom could be a possibility from any of the surrounding neighbours, or even a stranger from across the road.

6. There is a higher chance of getting mugged than out in the country fields.

7. Someone might vandalise the letterbox in the next year or two.

8. On a Saturday night, you might encounter, see, or even hear drunk people.

9. The plumbing might back up, and you could have the septic system from all of the floors above them be inundated into the apartment. If that occurs, just shrug yer shoulders and say "**** happens".

....and a myriad other things they may not expect.

 

[sydsider]

The mind boggling thing is he used to live in the same building a few years ago but probably more towards the back and he wanted to live in this building again because he liked having a cafe downstairs!!! AND he wants a two bedder as suppose to a one bedder now. Only about a third of the 36 units in the building are two bedders. The only one vacant in the building right now is the three bedder penthouse asking $960 a week. Maybe he can upgrade.

As mentioned before, he's very pedantic. Emailed a 'to do list' to PM along with comments like 'filthy blinds' 'place was extremely dirty' 'obviously not been painted for many years' 'oven very dirty with grease and oil!!!' all exact quotes.

For a second I thought he moved into the wrong apartment because seriously, the place is in pretty good condition, in fact excellent condition for a rental.

The only plus with this tenant is he is indeed very neat and tiny. I went there today to carry out some repairs on the 'to do list'. The place was very clean (he might disagree) and presentable with his furnitures. I just wish he can relax a little. Oh and I saw two sets of earplugs on either side of the bed.

 

[Simon]

they're living above a cafe - what the Ruddy hell did they expect?

.

I wouldn't have expected noise at 3am.

I'd be pissed off too.

The tenant does have a right to quiet enjoyment of the property - sure I read that somewhere in the Tenancies Act.

I'd be asking the strata to investigate altering the delivery timings.

 

[sydsider]

I think the breach they are referring to is "quiet enjoyment" but bloody hell they live above a cafe!!

I think that's it. "quite enjoyment" was what he mentioned.

Simon has a point and I'd rather solve the problem than hoping all my tenants are heavy sleepers.

This is my first strata titled IP hence zero experience in dealing with strata managers. I contacted them about some other stuff when I first bought the place and they didn't seem very helpful or maybe that's just how they are.

What can I do if the strata manager doesn't do anything? We have lodged a complaint with them but doubt the tenant is willing to wait for very long.

 

[twobobsworth]

What can I do if the strata manager doesn't do anything? We have lodged a complaint with them but doubt the tenant is willing to wait for very long.

What exactly do you want the strata mgr to do? Tell the milkman to turn up at 7?

 

[AlmostBob]

so also does the tenant of the cafe have the right to quiet enjoyment
there is a decibel limit, not a perceived, this is annoying because I can hear it if i stick my head out the open window that I have directly over the loading dock limit
We have had neighbours like this
who make noise complaints at three, (IN THE FARKING AFTERNOON), about an empty house
there is the door, out you go

 

[Perp]

There are noise regulations under local laws, usually prohibiting noise between certain hours in residential areas. (Don't know whether this qualifies.) So first I'd ring Council and check if the cafe is in breach of any local noise laws. If so, hand over to Council to deal with, and get PM to advise tenant that this has been done, and give them the contact in Council for them to deal with in future.

If the cafe is not breaching any Council noise laws, then I'm really not sure there's anything that can be done.

The "quiet enjoyment" provision is, in my understanding, usually with regard to the landlord's actions, eg the landlord can't be constantly dropping in, or driving by and making the tenants feel uncomfortable, you have to leave them in peace to enjoy the property they've rented. But I wouldn't think it extends to lawful environmental noise which is outside the landlord's control.

 

[Dazz]

There are noise regulations under local laws, usually prohibiting noise between certain hours in residential areas. (Don't know whether this qualifies.) So first I'd ring Council and check if the cafe is in breach of any local noise laws.

Nice reasoned post ozperp.


If the cafe is lawfully built below, with ressy on top, then at the very least the council zoning would be a mixture of comm/res, and therefore the noise provisions would be much more relaxed than just pure ressy zoning.


The Council is of course the place to have a bleat, but pushing wet spaghetti uphill comes to mind for the Tenant's problems.

 

[mary&mat]

I have an unusual noise issue.

Directly below my apartment is a cafe that opens between 6:30am-4pm. The cafe belongs to the same building so falls under the same strata management. It appears the cafe gets deliveries at 3 every morning and it's been waking up my tenant and his partner who only just moved in last week. He wrote an email to my PM at 4:30 this morning and rang her again later and started yelling on the phone saying the delivery guy shut the gate so hard it shook his bed! He claims both I the landlord and the downstair cafe are in breach of *something something* agreement (can't remember what now) and is threatening to leave giving 14 day notice if this is not resolved immediately.

My PM said she'll see if she can get the strata manager to do anything. If not we'll just have to let him go and find a new tenant.

My concern is what if the next tenant has the same issue?

I had a look in the by-law and there's no mention of noise issues? Only my apartment is directly above the cafe. The others are either off to the side or higher up so I assume it might not be as noisy for others.

I've only recently purchased this place. The apartment was always used as a rental by the previous owner who held it for almost ten years and the last lot of tenants stayed for more than three years (according to the previous agent).

What are my rights against the cafe downstairs? I think they are only renting the premise. My tenants are pretty anal but are super clean so would like to keep them if I can.

Any input is much appreciated.

Hi Sydsider,

Can only give a Melb point of view...but....
Yup, as suggested in a couple o posts here it's the council & their local laws dept who are meant to deal with noise complaints like this (very rarely EPA...council should be authorised to enforce EPA guidelines also).

Have dealt with some of these previously where owner of business and possibly delivery drivers' company were contacted. Advised acceptable times of delivery of goods (in melb from memory it was about 7.00am M-F & a bit later Sat & Sun), & even extends to idling motor and reverse 'beeps' on delivery trucks...I would think the slamming of the gate could be addressed here too.

Go to council website, download copy of local laws & check 'noise' complaints...should give you hours of acceptable commercial noise eg building sites, deliveries etc etc. Local Laws officers will follow up, contact appropriate bodies, issue fines if appropriate.
Most business owners have been happy to come to the party as they don't want complaints about their business & often come down quite heavily on the delivery drivers.
Hope this helps, good luck
Regards,
M&M

 

[kathryn d]

Seems like the tenant wants released from his lease.
Probably he found a larger unit somewhere else.
As for his claim of a dirty stove etc, is there a condition report from the previous outgoing tenant? If so, and it states it is clean, disagree with the tenant. Otherwise they will be leaving a dirty stove when they move.

The to-do list should be ignored unless it is something you want to do,
They rented the place, and obviously viewed it before renting. Do not make improvements. Only maintenace/repairs.

Make a stand now.If they don;t like it, they will move and bear the costs.

Tenants like this really irk me.