Thoughts on Foreign ownership in Australia

[BayView]

I liken foreign ownership to us selling off parts of our own PPoR to others.

Eventually, if we sell off too much of it, the other owners might stop us from repainting our own bedroom, and they'll say "oh; by the way - I have the rest of my extended family and friends moving in here next week. We need your bedroom. You don't mind do you?"

They should only ever be renters, with "clauses to evict" heavily in favour of the original PPoR owner.

Someone will now bleat on about how we took the Country from the original owners, and how dare we say we have the right to stop others from coming in and all that.....

 

[Perp]

I liken foreign ownership to us selling off parts of our own PPoR to others.

That analogy doesn't really work. It could be likened to subdividing your PPOR land and selling off the bit of garden you never used, I suppose. What do you care what they do with that garden, after you sold it to them? There are still all the planning, environmental, local, and other laws that they have to comply with, so they can't put in anything very noisy or visually disturbing, nor can they pollute your air.

They can't bring in heaps of other people to live there, because we have immigration laws.

They can't change our laws in their favour because they don't vote. (If they could, by definition, they wouldn't be "foreign".)

Most of the scenarios which people express concern about couldn't happen under existing laws. Unless you're concerned about the collapse of the rule of law, they're simply red herrings. And if law and order collapses, we'll have a LOT of worries besides foreign ownership.

It's the foreign investors who are taking the far bigger risk; investing large $ in infrastructure and property here in Australia, an investment which could become worthless, or near worthless, with a change in foreign ownership laws (here or in their home country), ability to gain access to their asset, political instability in either country, dramatic currency fluctuation, international banking risk, changes in international shipping practises, or a raft of other risks. We should all be grateful that there are entities with $ who are willing to accept such risks to invest the money that Australians can't (or won't) in Australian industry and jobs.

 

[topcropper]

Could I go and buy a farm in China? Dunno, but I doubt it. What if I bought a farm in China and then dug it up for coal and sent the coal back to Australia? I'd probably be locked up or worse?

Why did Canada block BHP from buying that potasium resource in Canada, yet Canada's agrium then proceeds to buy the Australian wheat board. Some Spanish company, ABRO, bought Sunrice, Australia's rice company.

Is Australia just a soft touch? Maybe the rest of the world is laughing at us?

Complicated issue. Yet if some Chinese or Saudi company wants to pay 2 times what my farm is worth I will happily take it.


See ya's.

 

[random]

Could I go and buy a farm in China? Dunno, but I doubt it. What if I bought a farm in China and then dug it up for coal and sent the coal back to Australia? I'd probably be locked up or worse?

Why did Canada block BHP from buying that patasium resource in Canada, yet Canada's agrium then proceeds to buy the Australian wheat board. Some Spanish company, ABRO, bought Sunrice, Australia's rice company.

Is Australia just a soft touch? Maybe the rest of the world is laughing at us?

Complicated issue. Yet if some Chinese or Saudi company wants to pay 2 times what my farm is worth I will happily take it.


See ya's.

Spot on BV,TC . And nope we can't buy up China at all ,they aren't that stupid but nore most other places either , not without one hell of a lot of red tape.
But guess what if it's under 300 million or something like that , "anyone " can buy whatever rural they want here. They just buy smaller parcels 1x1 , repeat as often as they want .
If they draw attention or max , they just set up a new subsidiary and start again. Somem wrong there.

Millions of ac's surrounding our farms could be owned by anyone and we don't even have to know, they just set up with Australian people and no one knows the difference.

As far as people like Dick Smith and having made it - that has huge implications . 1 , people like that don't need anything , that's a hell of a lot different to some CEO trying to expand the numbers for share holders or gov' trying to get the numbers looking good. And 2 , they're 10 x sharper than the average bear, aware of things and intricacies the average person only ever reads about, if that. They've been eating it for breakfast over decades and are the real visionaries, that's how they made it.
The average person couldn't even come close to imagining the real workings of things that people like this have spent their life living .

But around and round we'll go so I'm outa here.

 

[Deltaberry]

perp - spot on, the risk is being borne by the foreign investors.

overall - as usual, all the people posing counter-arguments fail to address my points about 'capitalising on high commodity prices and re-directing the funds to create sustainable jobs' nor do they address my point that 'Australia does not have the capital to dig up any of its mines nor build railway/ports'

At the end of the day, too many people and too many politicians are used to making popular decisions, but neglect visionary and tough decisions. And politicians can do that because while they talk the talk, they never walk the walk.

If we hadn't had all these foreigners invest money in to our infrastructure, we would've been the next Ireland or Greece already... At the very least we would've been a USA.

topcropper -

Comparing China and Australia is as inappropriate as it should get.

The needs of both countries are different. If we are a 500m people country, then I'm all for putting restrictings on shipping out our coal/iron ore/produce. Not when we're a 20m people country and have no use for that stuff.

random - one Dick Smith is against it, while a host of other billionaires are for it. Andrew Forrest is just about 10x richer than Dick, and he seems to favour f/o. Same with Clive Palmer and James Packer.

 

[random]

But Delta , of course Forest loves it , he'd love to be the next BHP .
Packer , he's gotta 5x dady's money or he looks like a loser and Clivey , as if he'd give a toss either.

The difference is people like Smith don't want any more that's why they devote their time now on issues they feel strongly about instead .

Anyway this time I'm really outa here

 

[BayView]

They can't bring in heaps of other people to live there, because we have immigration laws.

They can't change our laws in their favour because they don't vote. (If they could, by definition, they wouldn't be "foreign".)

The PPoR analogy is simplistic, but think long term - several decades.

Eventually, the new foreign PPoR co-owners become voters, get into Parliament, change immigration laws...and we think we have a boat problem now?

 

[Melbournian]

in response to the immigration phobia.

many of these foreign owners do not vote unless they become an australian citizen. Many countries do not allow dual citzenship, such as indonesia, malaysia, singapore etc.

if you choose one over the other, you would have to sell your assets (like property etc) so it gets complicated.

i wouldn't worry about voting - that're aren't enough of them to make a big shift. As for the boat problem comment - yes you should be worried but for the illegal migrants and for certain refugees (that come in) as they're be putting a load on the social welfare system on the taxes we Australians pay. I 'm all for the right immigrants irrespective of financial status.

But If you're some high net worth individual from china - who decides to buy some land in narre warren or even frankston - what's that to you? more money getting pumped into the economy and spend most likely around ur area if the seller was local.

 

[Melbournian]

The PPoR analogy is simplistic, but think long term - several decades.

Eventually, the new foreign PPoR co-owners become voters, get into Parliament, change immigration laws...and we think we have a boat problem now?

i heard penny wong is a finance minister.

 

[jaycee]

The PPoR analogy is simplistic, but think long term - several decades.

Eventually, the new foreign PPoR co-owners become voters, get into Parliament, change immigration laws...and we think we have a boat problem now?

voters are citizens.

what has that to do with foreign ownership laws ?


I don't think we have a boat problem now

 

[Melbournian]

voters are citizens.

what has that to do with foreign ownership laws ?


I don't think we have a boat problem now

LOL.....

 

[raton]

there were just some of the comments i read from the age

"Am I the only person in this country who can see the bigger picture? I live in a Melbourne suburb where Chinese migration is enormous. Where did that man get all the money to invest in property and business? Who is backing him? I suspect the huge migration from China is part of a larger plan for world domination. How many of these new residents are sending information back to Beijing? When the chips are down, where will their loyalties lie?
Please, governments, wake up and stop being so naive. China is using you and it's going to come back and bite all of us!! There is no point us increasing our ties with the USA, as they are heavily in debt to the Chinese already. It is a very worrying situation and as soon as I can, I'm out of here."

"There used to be restrictions imposed by the Foreign Investment Review Board on overseas residents buying properties in Australia. A few years ago these restrictions were lifted and now it is just open slather on Australian properties. My kids will never be able to afford a house because of this ridiculous demand."

There is nothing untoward to it, having business in China, one of my business associated got himself a mansion in Melbourne. They are looking a place to retire and a different education for their children, and of course the social security’s is a huge magnet. My self-invested in two properties in Melbourne, could never done it having a business in Australia.

 

[Aaron_C]

I think Australians should be happy that rich Chinese migrants are coming here to spend money on property/local businesses. After all, they provide a buffer to our economy in times of recession (when our dollar is low, more of them come because it is cheaper) and they still come (less so) even when our dollar is high and our economy is booming. It's not as if the whole country is suddenly going to start speaking Mandarin...

 

[mech81]

Just my 2cents.
I'm a first generation migrant that came to live with prospects of a better life and want to contribute to society here.
I think its alright when its overall investment where it benefits the ppl of the country they are investing in.

However, I'm just a bit concerned about certain purchases that have come into view that may hurt us in the future - mainly infrastructure that would affect basic living status: farms, water infrastructure ( and don't laugh resources too) and who knows what else

When these infrastructures fall into foreign hands, we have to be wary that those countries that buy these sensitive industries will later put us at an economical disadvantage. China is buying up overseas resources and farmland at a rapid pace. I really don't want australia's food source to fall into foreign hands with foreign interests. When crunch time happens and China experiences a massive food deficit, I'm not sure they will make sure tat us Australians will have enough to eat before their citizens do.

The last thing is that with resources: once foreign countries have majority stake in it, negotiations on royalties get very difficult as the overall economy is dependent on what decisions that stakeholder makes. I admit with resources it does not affect us as much as does food and water. But even take electricity, if the company decides to export instead of keeping it in the country if resources get scarce in the future, we will have no choice but to pay more to import that same resource in unless the govt intervenes.

Foreign investment does help an economy to grow but we must make sure this investment benefits us in the long run and doesnt put our long term sustainability at risk. this isnt my best comment but i hope I have put my point across.

Cheers
Dennis

 

[Deltaberry]

Dennis - when it's crunch time and China or any other country tries to exert its property rights to ship food from Australian farms back to their country, I'm sure most people here would simply tear up whatever legal document they hold.

Also royalties are set by State Governments. Not sure how a foreign owner can influence the 'negotiation' on royalties... it's like saying if there's more foreign companies, they can influence Australian corporate tax rate. For the record, foreign companies have been operating in the Australian mining sector for several years. Xstrata, Mitsubishi, to name but a few. At the end of the day, the only thing dictating your royalties and tax rates is going to be market competition. If you charge 10% but Brazil/Indonesia (iron and coal exporters for those who know zilch about the resources sector) charges 1%, you can expect to lose business.

As a first generation migrant I am not surprised you have a misunderstanding of these issues. What surprises me is that there are so many locally born and bred people who don't understand economics or anything in their own country. Guess they're more interested in footy.

Lastly, not sure how you intend to export electricity... must be some gigantic power grid and transmission line we're going to build across the Pacific Ocean.

 

[mech81]

Dennis - when it's crunch time and China or any other country tries to exert its property rights to ship food from Australian farms back to their country, I'm sure most people here would simply tear up whatever legal document they hold.

I'm not sure its as easy as tearing up a legal contract when it comes to Australia's legal system is concerned. But hey I may be wrong. *hopeful* Its just scary the way China is buying up important infrastructure.(and I'm a Chinese by the way)

Cheers
Dennis

 

[Deltaberry]

Yea well did you know your Optus telephone is Singapore-owned too? They've probably tapped your line. Watch out during crunch time.

Is it easy to tear up a contract? Course it is. There's compulsory appropriation laws for all real estate in Australia.

Regards
Australian Lawyer

 

[Sunfish]

Governments do it all the time: Ask big miners/oilers. LOL

 

[Deltaberry]

Should I add AWB, our largest agri trader, is Canadian? God forbid... now that's scary. They'll take all your grain!!!!

 

[Melbournian]

There is nothing untoward to it, having business in China, one of my business associated got himself a mansion in Melbourne. They are looking a place to retire and a different education for their children, and of course the social security’s is a huge magnet. My self-invested in two properties in Melbourne, could never done it having a business in Australia.

can't really understand what you're saying but best fix your grammar there.