Learnt something new today. Thats somehow rather reassuring. Thanks for that. On the other note, thats probably why I dont use Optus
J/k.
Thoughts on Foreign ownership in Australia
- Thread starter pats
- Start date
Learnt something new today. Thats somehow rather reassuring. Thanks for that. On the other note, thats probably why I dont use Optus
J/k.
I'm not sure if your being sarcastic here or not? However it is a bit scary having a Canadian company owning the Australian wheat board would anyone not say when Canada is one of the worlds biggest wheat exporters with Australia?
And Canada blocked BHP buying that Canadian potash fertilizer company?
See ya's.
Doesn't Australia mainland export electricity to Tasmania? So it's not much of an issue. Electricity could easily be exported around this region. Anyway, electricity is just energy. It's much the same as coal or gas or even food. It's all interchangable, so if we export any of this stuff we are exporting energy. We export aluminium, which is exporting electricity.
See ya's.
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About the electricity, its more of the resources needed to generate it not so much the electricity itself. In the end, i admit that Australia needs foreign investment. No doubt about it. But I reckon we need to be watchful of what that money is buying. If there's no need to monitor what foreigners are buying, then is there a point of the FIRB other than to generate statistics? A good civil mature debate.
About the electricity, its more of the resources needed to generate it not so much the electricity itself. In the end, i admit that Australia needs foreign investment. No doubt about it. But I reckon we need to be watchful of what that money is buying. If there's no need to monitor what foreigners are buying, then is there a point of the FIRB other than to generate statistics? A good civil mature debate.
The whole point is to appease those people who are xenophobic like Bob Brown. I would rather we attract wealthy migrants who can afford to purchase properties rather than those migrants who just leech off our social security system
The fact is Agrium bought out AWB and the share holders did benefit and are very gratetfull. as agrium paid 36% more than it was worth and share holders got something instead of being stuck with a declining poorly performing asset. Other smaller competetive companies have stepped in, growers have re-established co-operatives so many profits are retained in Australia. Yet growers have acess to more markets.
The Australian wheat board hasnt existed since 1999 it became a private company, AWB limited, a Canadian company bought AWB Limited.
Interesting thread.
I am completely open to and supportive of foreign ownership and investment in Australia. The benefits to Australia have been demonstrated over and over again. If a sector is deemed to be suitable for private investment, it should be open to foreign private investment.
But I do draw the line at foreign governments and their entities owning significant or controlling interests in large sections of Australia's infrastructure and resources. This includes sovereign wealth funds.
This is because their interests are not purely financial, which are easy to predict and in keeping with the intention of an open market as we maintain in Australia.
Demonstrably, the issue of Shenhua buying up large swathes of land for mining fits this criteria. The FIRB or the Minister should not have permitted it on national interest grounds. Shenhua is an instrument of government within a single party state - its motives are by definition not purely financial. The investment should not have been permitted. Likewise for the ownership of large scale resources. Yes you can "tear up a contract" but the reality would involve a steady loss of control for our government instead, insufficient to intervene directly. Or it could involve having to take on China itself - hardly a good idea at any time and never without consequences. The behaviour of private owners (from any country) by contrast is much more predictable and controllable.
By the way, a foreigner can buy assets like this in China within a JV structure with a local entity, but you can't directly buy a controlling interest yourself. They have it sorted...
I am completely open to and supportive of foreign ownership and investment in Australia. The benefits to Australia have been demonstrated over and over again. If a sector is deemed to be suitable for private investment, it should be open to foreign private investment.
But I do draw the line at foreign governments and their entities owning significant or controlling interests in large sections of Australia's infrastructure and resources. This includes sovereign wealth funds.
This is because their interests are not purely financial, which are easy to predict and in keeping with the intention of an open market as we maintain in Australia.
Demonstrably, the issue of Shenhua buying up large swathes of land for mining fits this criteria. The FIRB or the Minister should not have permitted it on national interest grounds. Shenhua is an instrument of government within a single party state - its motives are by definition not purely financial. The investment should not have been permitted. Likewise for the ownership of large scale resources. Yes you can "tear up a contract" but the reality would involve a steady loss of control for our government instead, insufficient to intervene directly. Or it could involve having to take on China itself - hardly a good idea at any time and never without consequences. The behaviour of private owners (from any country) by contrast is much more predictable and controllable.
By the way, a foreigner can buy assets like this in China within a JV structure with a local entity, but you can't directly buy a controlling interest yourself. They have it sorted...
Some interesting ownership just off the top of my head. For those of you who are paranoid about foreign ownership of your infrastructure, power plants, mines... well you've probably lost most of it already anyway. So much for paranoia/responding to media sensationalism...
Looks like Australia can't make enemies with half the world.
- AWB is owned by Canada (Agrium) - your largest wheat/grain trader. Tada no more grain/wheat in a war!
- Optus is owned by Singapore (SingTel). Tada, your phone is tapped!
- TruEnergy is owned by Hong Kong (CLP) - Tada no more electricity!
- Energy Australia is owned by Hong Kong (CLP) - yep this is a TruEnergy subsidiary, hence a China Light & Power subsidiary. Tada no more electricity!
- Citpower is owned by Hong Kong (Li Ka Shing) - lots of areas are serviced by Citipower (your biller might not be Citipower but they own lots of the infrastructure). Tada no more electricity!
- WA Gas Networks is owned by Canada (ATCO) - these guys are the gas distributors in WA. Tada no more gas!
- GasNet is owned by Japanese (Marubeni) - tada no more gas and electricity and your pipeline is gone too!
- Caltex is mostly owned by America (50% belong to Chevron) --> note Caltex is one of the two refiners and obviously the second largest distributor of petrol after Shell. Tada no more petrol!
- New Corp - tada your biggest media source is none other than our very own American friend, Rupert (you know... the one who renounced his Australian citizenship). Tada you will be brain-washed!
- ConnectEast will soon be owned by Canada (CP2) - the company which operates your toll roads. Tada you can't use your roads!
- Healthscope is owned by USA (Carlyle/TPG) - one of your largest pharmaceutical and hospital companies... imaigne if they controlled your drugs. Tada no more medicine!
- Consoliated Pastoral Company is owned by UK (Terra Firma) - one of the largest cattle players in Australia. Tada no more meat too!
- Boddington Mine is owned by USA (Newmont Corp) - oh yes I love mentioning this one. The largest gold mine in Australia is owned by USA. Tada no more gold!
- Lion Nathan (which makes Tooheys, Hahn, James Boags etc) is owned by Japanese (Kirin Holdings) -Tada no more beer! God forbid this way!
- Schweppes is owned by Japanese (Asahi Group) - Tada you can't even get soft drinks!
Looks like Australia can't make enemies with half the world.
A bit extreme Delta... but who knows? Humans can be at their worst when it comes to crunch time. Maybe not no more...more like if you don't pay me this amount or to the OZ govt...make this policy or else...
may be beyond your imagination but it does happen.
especially if you dig down further within some overseas companies who have a major stakeholder involving a govt entity who has major international political clout. Look at the way China reacted with the rejection of one of its intended takeovers...There were alot more said than what was reported in the papers. It wont be the first and wont be the last.
For example: Caltex doesnt need to not refine the oil, they can just put bigger margins and bring an oil-dependent economy to its knees.
What I'm saying is foreign investment is good. But one has to be watchful when government or political entities are involved which unfortunately a lot of major Chinese companies have.
may be beyond your imagination but it does happen.
especially if you dig down further within some overseas companies who have a major stakeholder involving a govt entity who has major international political clout. Look at the way China reacted with the rejection of one of its intended takeovers...There were alot more said than what was reported in the papers. It wont be the first and wont be the last.
For example: Caltex doesnt need to not refine the oil, they can just put bigger margins and bring an oil-dependent economy to its knees.
What I'm saying is foreign investment is good. But one has to be watchful when government or political entities are involved which unfortunately a lot of major Chinese companies have.
i love it. blind faith in the goodness of "society".
i have faith in the evils of man; and very little else.
plan for that and anything else that happens is good news.
what if i told you that a private devloper and the ATO are JV-ing selling property to Singaporeans....?
wouldn't be suprised. Singapore is another overpriced city with ppl looking to get out.
haha - u could put it in a bottle and ship it over. coal is different - electricty is different - that's why they got all those nuclear plants being built in china and japan.
yet the SGD is seen as a better safehaven if the EU collapses and money moves away from the CHF.....
Your whole list is made up of privately owned (not govt owned) companies based in free and democratic societies. Their interests are motivated by profit, as their equivalent companies are in Australia who invest in their markets.
Therefore I have no problem with any of it.
And I agree this debate is sensationally used by the media all the time for their own ends (increasing circulation / hits on websites) - much like all the other debates...
Not sure if you understand how Caltex operates. Put bigger margins on what?
There's a thing called competition. If you make your petrol $1.60 I'll simply buy from Shell or Mobil or Freedom. If you collude with the 4 of them I'll get you via the ACCC with competition laws... Also refining is not a profitable business in Australia generally.
I probably don't need to dig down further to realise who the government-related investors are. Happy to list out some government entities that have invested in Australia/Australian companies including CITIC, Shenhua, Yancoal, KEPCO, KORES, SIG, Temasek Holdings etc as well as highly nationalistic companies such as Mitsubishi, Mitsui, Marubeni, Aditya Birla, Tata, Sumitomo etc. What you need to realise is that in a lot of these countries, the reason their conglomerates are government-controlled is because the nature of corporations and corporate governance is different than relatively freer markets. Private enterprises rarely become big conglomerates simply because the country is not at a stage where it wants to exploit capitalism to its fullest.
As a Chinese it's highly unusual you don't appreciate that and it takes an Australian to point that out to you - then again I suspect that's one reason you chose to migrate and one reason some Australians deal with these corporations week in week out.
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