Tony Abbott's hypocrisy
- Thread starter chilliblue
- Start date
"The US government's admission that David Hicks is innocent of a war crime raises questions about the Howard government's role in his prolonged detention, his former lawyer says.
In the course of Mr Hicks' appeal against a terrorism-related charge, the US government has said that it does not dispute he is innocent and his conviction was not correct.
David Hicks was one of the first detainees transferred to Guantanamo Bay from Afghanistan in 2002, though the crime he was ultimately convicted of - providing material support for terrorism - was only created in US law in 2006.
Lawyer Dan Mori, who was initially appointed to defend Mr Hicks, told Fairfax Media that the blame for Mr Hicks' detention and conviction fell on both the prosecution, which had a vested interest in continuing its case against him since 2003, "and then the Howard government for supporting and encouraging (it).""
His behaviour is certainly questionable. You might not like what he did, but the law is the law, he is not actually guilty of anything either in Australia or the United States. Are you people advocating the torture and indefinite incarceration of someone because he did something you don't like.
Should he get an apology? No. Should he get at least his medical expenses paid? Absolutely.
Like I said you people are closer to Stalin than us "lefties".
In the course of Mr Hicks' appeal against a terrorism-related charge, the US government has said that it does not dispute he is innocent and his conviction was not correct.
David Hicks was one of the first detainees transferred to Guantanamo Bay from Afghanistan in 2002, though the crime he was ultimately convicted of - providing material support for terrorism - was only created in US law in 2006.
Lawyer Dan Mori, who was initially appointed to defend Mr Hicks, told Fairfax Media that the blame for Mr Hicks' detention and conviction fell on both the prosecution, which had a vested interest in continuing its case against him since 2003, "and then the Howard government for supporting and encouraging (it).""
His behaviour is certainly questionable. You might not like what he did, but the law is the law, he is not actually guilty of anything either in Australia or the United States. Are you people advocating the torture and indefinite incarceration of someone because he did something you don't like.
Should he get an apology? No. Should he get at least his medical expenses paid? Absolutely.
Like I said you people are closer to Stalin than us "lefties".
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No that is not what I am saying. It is not about the apology but about when the Liberal Party play politics to attain votes.
The US government has not been publically denounced by the Australian Government for illegally holding an Australian citizen for an alleged crime that was not punishable at that stage by either country.
Yet, they have gone on the defensive and have spoken about government policies against the Indonesian Government who have always had a very clear zero tolerance on drug smugglers.
We have two Australians breaking the law in Indonesia - a country that actively advertises that drug smugglers face a death penalty. They were wanting to profit on drugs bringing them into this country and inflicting them onto Australian citizens. Should that not be a concern.
Julie Bishop only a few months ago stated that any Australian overseas caught doing the wrong thing should not expect government assistance and yet here we have a Prime Minister attacking another country on how they run their own country.
Again I do not support the death penalty but this should be a time where every Australian wanting to profit on an activity that is wrong and illegal in both countries should be reminded that drug smuggling is wrong and that there are consequences to your actions.
Not, Indonesia is bad, that the government is corrupt and making very public threats.
That helps no one.
Nice attempt at verbaling. Shame on you.
They aren't asking for them to be released or forgiven for their crimes, just that they aren't killed for it.
If Hicks were to have been executed, the Govt would have sought clemency for him too as they have for many others on death row around the world.
There is simply no hypocrisy here from Australia, it all sits with the Indonesians.
Sorry but this is ridiculous. You're worried about a political party playing politics to attain votes? What would you call Labor's constant fearmongering before the last election of "they'll bring back Workchoices"?
The major parties are both centrist parties who do what they can to be popular. Abbott is copping a pasting because he holds some conservative views and the media loves to hate him.
Personally I find slagging off politicians to be pointless and nasty. If you don't like who's in government, vote for the opposition next time.
given that he wasn't tried for treason your point is invalid.
I hardly think so, he has clearly stated that he went overseas to fight against the west and was quite prepared to shoot Australian soldiers.
His intentions were clear, the fact that the USA charged him with an incorrect charge does not alter the fact the he was prepared to shoot us.
USA can't charge him with treason, since he is not an american citizen.
Australia could, but since no one did, obviously there was no treason.
the rest is irrelevant.
This thread is about "does the Australian Govt owe Hicks an apology"
I and others said No because he readily agrees that he acted as a terrorist, the only thing an apology could be for was the time spent in gaol in Cuba.
As we did not put him there, we don't owe him an apology, it could be argued that he and others are not only owed an apology but compensation for false arrest by the US government.
At the time he was in Afghanistan his intentions were basically the same as ISILs are now, to overthrow Western Governments and turn the whole world into an Islamic world ruled by Sharia law.
Obviously, they were not put on FaceBook but the Taliban were extremely cruel to other Afghanies, unfortunately, ISIL has taken that to the next step of cruelty and horror.
I don't think we should be treating the people returning from ISIL as poor unfortunate people, I think they should be put in gaol. The Government seems to agree as they rushed through laws to that effect so that the Hicks type of situation is clear cut.
Anyway, enough of this as we obviously come from different sides, I shall agree to disagree.
No it is not Macca and I have made that clear both in my title and my posts.
What I am trying to say is that our Prime Minister seems to chose where his Catholic morals are.
David Hicks is still considered by Tony Abbott as a terrorist even though he was never convicted under any American or Australian law and has been proven to be legally innocent. He is the first to say that what he did was wrong and his thinking is no longer the same.
There are two Australians who have been admitted, tried and been convicted of trying to export drugs out of a country into Australia for profit. A country that has always been clear that they have the death penalty for anyone convicted of that crime.
Yes they have admitted their crimes and yes it is wrong to kill people regardless of whether you a drug smuggler or a country.
However, I am questioning our Prime Minister's threats and bullying of another countries laws and processes when his own minister has publically stated that any Australian overseas doing the wrong thing should not expect government assistance.
I personally believe that the wrong message is being sent out by our Prime Minister.
Can you provide a reference for the claim that the government has said they would cease providing assistance to australians while overseas?
I recall Julie Bishop floating the idea of cost recovery for people who find themselves in difficulty by going to places of danger or who fail to take out appropriate travel insurance. But I don't recall any announcement in line with what you are suggesting. If you can support that claim it would be an interesting topic for discussion in a separate thread, because even if true, it is entirely irrelevant to the Australian government being entirely consistent in lobbying against capital punishment for its citizens.
I think you just don't like the PM.
Speaking about consular affairs for the first time since taking over the portfolio, Julie Bishop urged Australians travelling overseas they need to take responsibility for their own actions.
"There are circumstances where Australians must take responsibility for their own conduct overseas,'' she said.
"If you break the laws of other countries or are accused of doing so, you are subjected to their legal system."
http://www.news.com.au/travel/world...get-into-trouble/story-e6frfqai-1226732156392
Just as I thought. Doesn't say anything about not offering assistance. Doesn't say anything about the long standing opposition to the death penalty, or anything about ceasing the lobbying for clemency as has long been the practice.
There is no mixed message here except for that from the Indonesians.
"There are circumstances where Australians must take responsibility for their own conduct overseas,'' she said.
"If you break the laws of other countries or are accused of doing so, you are subjected to their legal system."
Ms Bishop said the government has a responsibility to help Aussies when they're caught up in disasters or political turmoil abroad. But she warned Australians cannot count on the Federal Government to bail them out if they get into trouble.
Make of it what you will.
"If you break the laws of other countries or are accused of doing so, you are subjected to their legal system."
Ms Bishop said the government has a responsibility to help Aussies when they're caught up in disasters or political turmoil abroad. But she warned Australians cannot count on the Federal Government to bail them out if they get into trouble.
Make of it what you will.
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