UNTOLD: The Strangest Secret

[thefirstbruce]

and I say that the universe is all that is and will always give us what we ask for through how we feel about what we want.

So how does this fit?
Our emotions are a horse, and our minds the rider.
The horse has the power to get us where we want to go.
But the rider must choose the destination and steer the horse there.

I do not believe that there is a blackboard up in the sky somewhere with "what the universe wants for me" written on it. That is for me to decide as I believe my purpose in this reality is to create and appreciate all that is created in this expanding universe.
I hope this helps.

This is where I can't reconcile your view. There are real limitations on what one's mind and body can achieve in a lifetime. Therefore, I don't believe I am a blank slate that I can write anything on whatsoever.

Some of us have innate skill at music, others maths, others physical stamina. We are all more likely to succeed by discovering what it is we are better equipped to accomplish. However, that doesn't have to be a rigid either/or thing.


As you are aware Simon, I am not intimidated or threatened by a God concept. I focus on an aspect of God, as more a highly advanced and accomplished older brother who can see things clearer than me, and if I ask for direction, then he can help with that.

However, like an older brother, God doesn't want me riding on his tail, never developing into an independent adult myself. He expects me to grow and learn, and do.

God isn't something I have to supplicate and plead with, nor the final arbiter of what I might do in life. We are all born with some degree of free will. However, using that free will recklessly may very well put us in a position where we are compelled to plead with God to show us the way out of the dark misery we chose for ourselves.

 

[Kennethkohsg]

The point of difference that we have on this matter I believe is, you believe the universe knows what we want/need and I say that the universe is all that is and will always give us what we ask for through how we feel about what we want. I also believe the universe is made up of complete consciousness in all aspects and dimensions. That is why I am such a big fan of the latest scientific theories on quantum physics. You seem to want to distinguish between the creator and the creation where on the other hand I make no distinction. I believe we are all part of all that is with no distinction between physicality and spirituality.

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Dear Simon,

1. Extrapolating from your a/m belief, I wish to ask how does the Universal Intelligence and you and I come into being in the first place? A matter of random co-incidence as caused by "someone's" wishing? Then who is this "someone?" in the first Creation story?

2. How come you are being born in "your" present family now (and specifically this family and not other) and not as a part of "my" family? I wonder whose decision or wish is this? How does your concept of Energy existence explains this?

3. At what condition and temperature, will we exist in physical form ( as our body form), and in our liquid form (soul form) and in the invisible gaseous form ( as in our spiritual form)?

4. How does each of us acquire our own unique specific identity as "you" are "you" and "I" am "I" and not otherwise? i.e how does one energy conscioiusly know that it is not the other energy vibrating at a different frequency?

5. I look foward to be educated and learning from you further, please.

6. Thank you.

Cheers,
Kenneth KOH

 

[simonjulie]

So how does this fit?
Our emotions are a horse, and our minds the rider.
The horse has the power to get us where we want to go.
But the rider must choose the destination and steer the horse there.

Interesting
I look at it the other way round.
Our minds/thoughts are the horse and our emotions are the rider/steerer.
The horse has the power to get us to our destination(creating our own reality in the present moment) but the rider must be able to stay on the horse(choice of the most appropriate emotion). We are ,in this reality, forever experiencing the present moment and the universe is constantly expanding through every conscious thought by all in this reality.

This is where I can't reconcile your view. There are real limitations on what one's mind and body can achieve in a lifetime. Therefore, I don't believe I am a blank slate that I can write anything on whatsoever. .

This reality offers us the opportunity to experience , create and appreciate.
We will never get it all done but we can really start to see how creation works while we are here.

Some of us have innate skill at music, others maths, others physical stamina. We are all more likely to succeed by discovering what it is we are better equipped to accomplish. However, that doesn't have to be a rigid either/or thing..

I agree

As you are aware Simon, I am not intimidated or threatened by a God concept. I focus on an aspect of God, as more a highly advanced and accomplished older brother who can see things clearer than me, and if I ask for direction, then he can help with that. .

I have not argument about your personal view on Who or what God is. That is your business and I have no right to challenge that opinion.

However, like an older brother, God doesn't want me riding on his tail, never developing into an independent adult myself. He expects me to grow and learn, and do.

How do you know this?

God isn't something I have to supplicate and plead with, nor the final arbiter of what I might do in life. We are all born with some degree of free will. However, using that free will recklessly may very well put us in a position where we are compelled to plead with God to show us the way out of the dark misery we chose for ourselves.

The above quote sounds like your own internal stuff. I can not comment on it.
Good luck
Simon

 

[simonjulie]

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Dear Simon,

1. Extrapolating from your a/m belief, I wish to ask how does the Universal Intelligence and you and I come into being in the first place? A matter of random co-incidence as caused by "someone's" wishing? Then who is this "someone?" in the first Creation story?

Is it important for us to know the answer to that question? I don't

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2. How come you are being born in "your" present family now (and specifically this family and not other) and not as a part of "my" family? I wonder whose decision or wish is this? How does your concept of Energy existence explains this?

Your questions are for wiser folk than me Kenneth.

**************************
3. At what condition and temperature, will we exist in physical form ( as our body form), and in our liquid form (soul form) and in the invisible gaseous form ( as in our spiritual form)?

Same again

**************************
4. How does each of us acquire our own unique specific identity as "you" are "you" and "I" am "I" and not otherwise? i.e how does one energy conscioiusly know that it is not the other energy vibrating at a different frequency?

The questions you are asking me are not relevant to my current reality.
I am not qualified to answer and don't feel it important to know everything.
Do you Know the answers to these questions?
Simon

 

[Kennethkohsg]

Dear Simon,

1. These are basic Existential/philosophical questions about the Absolute Truths.

2. Steve Covey says "begin all things with an end in mind". I guess that what you are going to tell me that the journey (i.e the process) is as important as the end results (i.e the goals), isn't it?

3. If you are not sure where you are truly heading to, why encourage others to join you in this life journey in the first place?... Do you not owe it to yourself, as a sort of personal self-responsibility first, to try to search and know exactly where you are heading first, theoretically speaking, before actually embarking on your real life journey which seemingly leads to nowhere else at this point in time except for achieving a sense of feeling good and positive-mindedness for the time being?

4. What IF, after 20 years of searching subsequently, you discover that this life journey actually leads to nowhere indeed but to the concept of "self-illusion" and "self-deception", what would you do then?

5. How is this life journey differs substantially from an actual experience in "smoking opium" or/and different from the "hippies" movement in the 1960s?

6. I look forward to your kind clarifications and to be further educated, please.

7. Thank you.

regards,
Kenneth KOH

 

[simonjulie]

Kenneth
You tell me where I said I am not sure of where I am heading.
I don't need to know absolutely every truth in or about the universe to understand what works in my reality and what does not.
All I am saying to anyone who takes the time to listen is "test what I have said for themselves and recognise the truth that results".
I am starting to feel as though some of you are are not really reading what I have written as I have not had any direct challenges to the process of recognising emotion attached to trigger thoughts. Instead I get inundated with obscure misrepresentations of other folks personal belief systems.
Proove what I say is wrong or agree with the processes I have been expounding.
Do yourself a favour and try it for yourself.
Or are you scared of what you may discover?
Simon

 

[thefirstbruce]

Interesting
I look at it the other way round.
Our minds/thoughts are the horse and our emotions are the rider/steerer.
The horse has the power to get us to our destination(creating our own reality in the present moment) but the rider must be able to stay on the horse(choice of the most appropriate emotion). We are ,in this reality, forever experiencing the present moment and the universe is constantly expanding through every conscious thought by all in this reality.

Have never thought of it the other way around, but seems plausible. will have to contemplate it after a swim and a wine on this beautiful hot Brissy day..

How do you know this?

I don't know it Simon, I believe it, at least now....Like anything with belief systems, one can only believe in them, one cannot state they are absolutes. That's why I don't go to a regular church. I don't have an absolute faith that one spiritual path is 100% right, and all others are inferior. I think God is bigger than that... and has relationships with ppl from all sorts of faiths and religions..have met wise Christians, Buddhists, and Hindus, and Jews and Muslims.

The above quote sounds like your own internal stuff. I can not comment on it.

A little of it is mine, that's true....but until one has had the illusion of security in the material world smashed with a sledge hammer from underneath them, then they are missing a large part of the human condition.

 

[Kennethkohsg]

Instead I get inundated with obscure misrepresentations of other folks personal belief systems.
Proove what I say is wrong or agree with the processes I have been expounding.
Do yourself a favour and try it for yourself.
Or are you scared of what you may discover?
Simon

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Dear Simon

1. I have personally tried the "Laws of Attraction" in my own life and know it to be true for my case too.

2. However, for me, the spiritual Laws of Attraction does not operates in vacuum by itself per se, there is another spiritual concept of "Karma" which eventually governs the outcome of its operations in a mysterious manner of whether the Universe deem a person to be "deserving" or/and "un-deserving" to be given certain "gifts"/things in life.

3. It does not truly matter whether we like or dislike the Concept of Karma and know how it will exactly governs the Laws of Attraction or not.

4. You have tried to explain how the Laws of Attraction works objectively under the concept of Universal Energy Source Consciousness under which it is assumed that we are all part of the Universe and part of its random energy molecules existing in space and time dimensions, at this point in time.

5. I have suggested that this explanation is inadequate in itself per se in that it fails to explain the subjective consciousness and uniqueness of every human beings as different from the others as well as where/what the first Energy Source comes from or/and originated from.

6. I do not think that the Laws of Attraction operates in an adhoc or random manner. In fact, I suspect that it actually operates in a very specific manner according to certain spiritual principles and truths which need to be un-covered and properly understood in the first place.

7. I myself is no master of this spiritual truth as I am still learning about it and trying to understand it myself.

8. Hopefully, the right Teacher will soon appears to enlighten me/us about this learning of this spiritual truth in due course.

9. While we have both experienced and understood how the Laws of Attraction have worked in our own respective lives in our own specific (and differing?) way and have greatly benefitted from this spiritual awareness, our knowledge and understanding of how the Laws of Attraction actually operates, is still far from perfection.

10. In fact, we do differ in our own basic understanding of and our own explanation for the same phenomenon to a certain extent.

11. Let us focus on our own higher vibrational frequencies and agree to disagree here and ultimately let the Truth itself, teaches us in its own mysterious way that we can both understand and comprehrend its ultimate Truth.

12. For your kind update and further comments/discussion, please.

13. Thank you.

Cheers,
Kenneth KOH

 

[Kennethkohsg]

Kenneth

You tell me where I said I am not sure of where I am heading.

Simon

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Dear Simon,

Please tell me where you are heading exactly, then?

Cheers,
Kenneth KOH

 

[sailor]

2. However, for me, the spiritual Laws of Attraction does not operates in vacuum by itself per se, there is another spiritual concept of "Karma" which eventually governs the outcome of its operations in a mysterious manner of whether the Universe deem a person to be "deserving" or/and "un-deserving" to be given certain "gifts"/things in life.

6. I do not think that the Laws of Attraction operates in an adhoc or random manner. In fact, I suspect that it actually operates in a very specific manner according to certain spiritual principles and truths which need to be un-covered and properly understood in the first place.

Kenneth KOH

Kenneth and Simon, I have been following your discussion with interest and learning as I go. Having watched The Secret a couple of times now, I'm beginning to get a basic understanding of the LOA. Now Kenneth you have also mentioned that Karma comes into the equation as well. So would you mind telling me more about the spiritual principles and truths that are also involved please.

 

[thefirstbruce]

I am starting to feel as though some of you are are not really reading what I have written as I have not had any direct challenges to the process of recognising emotion attached to trigger thoughts.

Simon, this issue has been explored by philosophers, psychologists, and religions for aeons. The area of emotion and thought, and which controls which, or which precedes which, has been explored ad infinitum.

In 20th Century psych, Canon believed thought controlled emotion and the body, and Cognitive Behavioural Therapy is all based on changing thoughts in an effort to change chronic negative affective states that block progress. Meanwhile, William James believed the body can significantly effect emotions and the mind... i.e. consider the negative effects of blood sugar swings and mood swings associated with the menstrual cycle.

 

[simonjulie]

Hi Kenneth and thefirstbruce
Thankyou for all your discussion and input on the topic. I do truly appreciate to opportunity to have such discussions.
We are ,all of us a different aspect/facit of what I believe is a vastly expanding universe. From what or who it originates is not known to me but I am more than happy to accept your views as that view is what you truly believe. I have know right to challenge those views only to expound my discoveries and seek through experience as to whether they hold true when tested. So far so good for me.
Good luck to you both.
Simon

 

[thefirstbruce]

Good luck to you both.
Simon

Simon, what is luck?

 

[simonjulie]

Luck is whatever you want it to be. It's your universe too.
Maybe I should have said, I wish you both good fortune in all aspects of your reality.
I like things simple, cause I'm a simple guy. You guy's are are in way too deep for me. Have fun.
Simon

 

[thefirstbruce]

Luck is whatever you want it to be. It's your universe too.
Maybe I should have said, I wish you both good fortune in all aspects of your reality.
I like things simple, cause I'm a simple guy. You guy's are are in way too deep for me. Have fun.
Simon

Of course Simon, the most important and profound aspect of any belief system, is to address the biggest issue we all face....death....after a prolonged period of apoptosis and senescence......

There's not much point believing we can become anything we want, if that doesn't include not overcoming growing old, sick, and finally....deceased.. Otherwise, a belief system will have to include a proviso that

you can become anything you want to become "as long as it is within the next 60 years"

 

[pete152]

Luck is whatever you want it to be. It's your universe too.
Maybe I should have said, I wish you both good fortune in all aspects of your reality.
I like things simple, cause I'm a simple guy. You guy's are are in way too deep for me. Have fun.
Simon

Too deep for you?? I can not see daylight!!
Cheers,
Peter

 

[Rixter]

Simon, what is luck?

Luck = Labouring Under Correct Knowledge!

 

[Kennethkohsg]

******************************************
Dear Sailor,

1. If we refer to the actual filmlet itself, there is actually no mention of the concept of Karma at all.

2. Likewise, the filmlet also fails to mention about human intentions when discussing the operations of the Laws of Attraction.

3. While I do agree with Simon that for the Laws of Attraction to work, the human thoughts need to be energised with our own emotions/passions and once these thoughts are sufficiently focussed and energised upto a certain level, there will be a breakthrough in our own real life at the physical/material sense level, just as a small fire will eventually be ignited and appear from nowhere when a magnifying glass is held over the paper over a prolonged period of time, during a sunny day.

4. When and how intense this human thoughts needs to be "energised"/"emotionalised" upto in order for the thinking object to manifest itself in the physical world in the material form, we do not truly know, at this point in time.

5. From the Quantum Physics perspective, while it seems that Laws of Attraction can be easily "explained", as, such truth is in principle capable of being, "verifiable" and "falsifiable" through the Scientific Principle, just as we were to consider the different energy forms for the H20 molecule to operate in our everyday world:- it can exist in the invisible gaseous form as air, or in liquid form as water and in the solid opaque form as ice cubes.

6. Please note that holding the magnifying glass over a piece of dry paper per se does not neccesssarily cause the ignition of the fire to occur;- provided it is only done on a hot sunny day and sufficient time is given for the heat/light energy to convert itself into a small fire flame (light energy?) when the paper is burnt.

7. Likewise, the paper will not / is unlikely to burst into a flame eventually when the same process of holding a magnifying glass over the paper, is done outdoors under a rainy or cloudy day weather conditions or done in a normal indoor condition, all things being equal here

8. Why is this so? I believe it has simply to do with the Laws of Nature.

9. Using the Energy Theory or/and Quantum Physics perspective, Energy is actually required from the strong sun lights rays to focus on it for the paper to catch on a fire when a magnifying glass is held over it sufficiently long enough.

10. Will the same phenomenon occur when we try to replace the natural sunlight source with an equally strong laser beam light source which is artifically created?

11. I guess it can/will if we strictly believe in the Energy Theory or/and Quantum Physics perspectives.

12. Perhaps other members who have done this kind of experiments before, can confirm/disconfirm, for us here.

13. Now, returning back to our human thinking process, if we were to critically examine our own thinking process and the Christain faith or/and other religions, there is this thing called "asking amiss" which have to do with the human intentions/motives behind the asking/thoughts that we have.

12. Both God/Universe and our own human conscience "judges" us, as to our true intentions/motives behind each and every of our own human thoughts and asking.

13. Somehow, we will know instinctively for ourselves why certain thoughts are "honourable" while others are not ... and yet there are some other thoughts still being considered as "neutral" for the time being because these thoughts have still not been officially associated with a certain human intentions or/and just merely passing through our mind.

14. Thus, somehow and sometimes we will know immediately within our hearts by faith instinctively and intuitively, why certain things we have asked from God/Universe, will come to pass while others will not, assuming that faith in our own asking is not an issue at all.

15. Thus, I personally believe that aligning ourselves with God/Universe Divine Nature/Purpose is a basic pre-condition for the Laws of Attraction to operate;- for God/Universe does actually judge us and our human intentions behind each and every of our asking to a certain extent to cause the Laws of Attraction to operate effectively or/and otherwise.

16. Thus, if we were to ask God/Universe "honourably", "selflessly" for the good of mankind, and in simple good faith with the pure heart and innocence of a child, i.e "in simple child-like faith", it is more likely that the Laws of Attraction will operate positively as we know, to help us realise our asking in the physical/material world.

17. On the other hand, if we were to ask God/Universe for something "evil" or/and "dishonourably" or/and "selfishly", somehow we will naturally and instinctively "know" within ourselves beforehand that our asking is "in vain" or "wrong", to a certain extent.

18. I believe that this is so because instinctively, we will clearly "know" for ourselves inituitively, whether or not, our human intentions is not properly aligned with higher Divine Principle/Purpose or not, somehow, in a mysterious manner.

19. I further wish to suggest that under such situations, the Laws of Atttraction will normally either "not allowed" to operate at all or/and allowed to operate "differently" from its usual sense such as in a "negative" manner so as to bring about a KARMA boomerang effect on the individual asking for such things with a "wrong"/"evil" purpose ;- for God/Universe Divine Nature cannot be "corrupted" by our own impure human desires/thoughts imputed upon it.

20. Consequently, it seems apparent to me that there is some sort of laws of KARMA operating in conjunction with the Laws of Attraction.

21. For your kind update and further comments/discussion, please.

22. Thank you.

Cheers,
Kenneth KOH

 

[Kennethkohsg]

Of course Simon, the most important and profound aspect of any belief system, is to address the biggest issue we all face....death....after a prolonged period of apoptosis and senescence......

There's not much point believing we can become anything we want, if that doesn't include not overcoming growing old, sick, and finally....deceased.. Otherwise, a belief system will have to include a proviso that

you can become anything you want to become "as long as it is within the next 60 years"

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Dear TFB,

1, From what I had read about the Energy Consciousness perspective, when our human death occurs, as a form of energy, we will return back to the Universe as part of its "Supernova" Energy form.

2. There is no longer the distinction of "you" and "I", "right or "wrong". We and the Universe are one and now operates as part of the Universe/Energy Supernova Form.

3. Neither do I think the Energy Consciousness perspective has clearly explained the "Whys" and "Hows" about the human death occurrence or/and why "you" and "I" are living on earth now.

4. For your kind update, please.

5. Thank you.


regards,
Kenneth KOH

 

[simonjulie]

Of course Simon, the most important and profound aspect of any belief system, is to address the biggest issue we all face....death....after a prolonged period of apoptosis and senescence......

There's not much point believing we can become anything we want, if that doesn't include not overcoming growing old, sick, and finally....deceased.. Otherwise, a belief system will have to include a proviso that

you can become anything you want to become "as long as it is within the next 60 years"

I was about to let you Guy's off the hook but this is just too good to resist.
"I reckon a belief system is only a series of thoughts we keep having". Therefore if you include stuff like death in your belief system then that’s what you'll need to accommodate with your thoughts. I am not interested in dying ATM so I don't believe I need to think about it yet. End of story. If you consider this to be too simplistic then it is. But it works for me in my universe. What about you guy's?
Cheers

Simon