Who here has actually achieved financial freedom from Real Estate alone?

I have two properties as IP's and will be purchasing another mid-this year. I have goal of becoming financially dependant in 10 years time and I am hoping that real estate will do it for me.

I do not want to be rich, if i can earn a passive income of $70,000 before tax, that'll do for me. I dont have any expensive hobbies, all I want is surplus income to be able to travel the world and move about without having to worry about working. Is this achievable? Who has done this?

I guess I am just a little apprehensive after reading a few articles about how most residential real estate investors never get to achieve a level of financial independance, and talking with a few of my parents friends, they seemed to agree, even though they have property. They say that increases in water, electricty, rates, tax etc etc, eat up most of any of the gains made by increases in rents.

I guess Im just wanting to know that my goals are achievable. I will pursue my dreams no matter what, just curious to hear from the members here.

Thanks.
 
it is possible, and in this current climate it is even more so....

depends on what your buying and looking @ buying, and what your comfort levels are.

personally i have been agressive and feel this will be enough, but wouldnt mind pushing for a few more.
 
Hi Daniel,

Congratulations on having a vision for the next 10 years. Most people over-estimate what they can achieve in a year however they completely under-estimate what they can achieve on a decade

Everyone's level of financial freedom will vary depending on the number$ they have in mind.

Personally, I do want to be rich. Rich in health, money, relationships, contribution, etc. I want to be the most that I can be.

Your level of $ 70,000 is a worthy target, however IMO you may find that you amend that figure as you get closer to your goal.

I'm not judging you or others who may have moderate aspirations (although you will be better off than the remaining 95 per centers even with your goal), however do not be swayed by what your parents and friends think. Have they achieved financial freedom?

Listen to others however draw your own conclusions. Don't fall into anyone elses plans, because they may not have much planned for you.

In answer to your question, I have not yet achieved the level of financial freedom that I am aiming for myself and my family. I do however have a roadmap that I am following.

I suggest if 70,000 is your goal (and by the way is that in todays money or in 10 years time?) work backwards to ascertain what net worth assets you need to give you that type of yield and then plan to accumulate or develop the required number of properties.

I would also suggest you be flexible with your plan as circumstances may sometimes change. Have a contingency plan and stay focused on your end goal. Do not be swayed by the naysayers.

Again, congrats on your honesty for your future goal. You've started a nice thread that should bring some interesting views.

I'll conclude with the words of the great Disraeli .......Think Big. Life is too short to be little.
 
Hi Player thanks for your comments. I too want to be all I can be and if the opportunity arises where I can make more, then I will do so. I guess what ive outlined is the minimum I want out of 10 years in the investing market. If I can achieve at the very least that, then I am content. More, ofcourse, would also do nicely :)
 
Hi Player thanks for your comments. I too want to be all I can be and if the opportunity arises where I can make more, then I will do so. I guess what ive outlined is the minimum I want out of 10 years in the investing market. If I can achieve at the very least that, then I am content. More, ofcourse, would also do nicely :)

Good stuff Daniel,

if I may then make another respectful observation.....I would suggest you do not use negative language such as not wanting to be rich, because you are likely to have those thoughts circulate inside of you. If you expressed it, you thought it first ;)

This causes a lack of congruence in your goals and will sabotage your further comment of wanting to be all you can be. You cannot be all you can be without the desire of being rich. Hope this makes sense :)


Read As a Man Thinketh. If you want a copy, send me a PM with your email address and I'll forward it as an e-book.
 
I guess I am just a little apprehensive after reading a few articles about how most residential real estate investors never get to achieve a level of financial independance, and talking with a few of my parents friends, they seemed to agree, even though they have property. They say that increases in water, electricty, rates, tax etc etc, eat up most of any of the gains made by increases in rents.

I'd say they would be right if they intend to live on rental income.

IMHO real wealth and income is generated from capital growth - rent's for covering portfolio holding costs.

Do the articles mention why most residential real estate investors never achieve a level of financial independence? I have a pretty good guess just by looking at the percentage of multiple purchase stats.

Let me assure you that $70,000 p/a is very achievable..
 
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I agree that this is very difficult to achieve on rental income alone, at least not without a proportionate amount of pain dealing with the management/repairs for a large number of properties.

Once you factor in capital growth and the possibility of selling down some properties to pay off others and invest in other asset classes as well I'd say its very achievable. A 5% return on $1.4million in net assets will get you there.
 
Hi, it's interesting that a couple of others have already said what caught my eye immediately.

The words 'I don't want to be rich'.

The two have been very kind in their comments to you.

$70000 p.a. passive income means about 1.3M net worth fully invested.

Someone saving 20000 p.a. takes 10 years to accummulate 200000. One lifetime = about 30 years of work.

Take away about 400000 for PPOR

The normal 50000 p.a. worker will never make it.

My 'advice' if I can term it that way is STRIKE THOSE WORDS OFF YOUR VOCABULARY IMMEDIATELY. Try saying 'My net worth is 1M in .......'

In many ways you're in an enviable position because you've begun your journey. Enjoy it. I'll bet you make it too.

KY
 
Firstly, what Rixter said - very achievable but with CG not rents.

I guess Im just wanting to know that my goals are achievable. I will pursue my dreams no matter what, just curious to hear from the members here.
Good to hear you intend achieving your goals no matter what.
Dan, at the end of the day RE is just a vehicle...a vehicle to making wealth. There are many other vehicles - shares and cash for example. The times for these vehicles to do well, moves in cycles. See the 'economic clock'.

I used to be like you - just wanting to use RE as a vehicle (because I liked it) - but it sits still for maybe 4 - 6 years out of the 10 years it takes to double. The share market is much the same. Likewise cash at bank has been great over the last 2 years but you would not want to be living off interest from cash at bank now. As you get your financial education you will be able to get the "mix" of RE, shares & cash right - so you have a 'balanced' portfolio and something in it is always doing well.
 
hi
yes it is achievable and i am doing it. bear in mind however, that by the stage of financial independence, your housing costs, will hopefully be paid for by someone else (a tenant or by owning it) reducing what you need to be earning per year. when lots of your costs are part of the rental business, you no longer need to earn as much.

you may or may not need a paradigm shift. sometimes the preconceptions we have limit us. think outside the square and go hard.

go after your rental business (your rentals) before your ppr unless every ppr that you own adds to the business. many people suck up their income paying for their own home rather than their investments which will ultimately pay for the life style change of independence.

i'm now in the strange boat of thinking of returning to work for the adult interaction!!!!!!


all the best
 
70K in 10Yrs very achievable with good buying from the start and the right economic conditions such as we just had over the last 6 years.
 
When you guys say its possible from CG and not rents, how does that work?
CG is only advantageous when you leverage it against another asset, but that places you further into debt in regards to cash flow.

Other than selling an asset, Im not sure how CG can give you a passive income of 70K a year.
 
When you guys say its possible from CG and not rents, how does that work?
CG is only advantageous when you leverage it against another asset, but that places you further into debt in regards to cash flow.

Other than selling an asset, Im not sure how CG can give you a passive income of 70K a year.

LOE

good longterm CG will support LOE indef. 5mill assests going up 1% = 50k, 2% 100k. If you harvest that as a LOC use 30k to cover interest and as buffer much happiness
 
I have two properties as IP's and will be purchasing another mid-this year. I have goal of becoming financially dependant in 10 years time and I am hoping that real estate will do it for me.

I do not want to be rich, if i can earn a passive income of $70,000 before tax, that'll do for me. I dont have any expensive hobbies, all I want is surplus income to be able to travel the world and move about without having to worry about working. Is this achievable? Who has done this?

I guess I am just a little apprehensive after reading a few articles about how most residential real estate investors never get to achieve a level of financial independance, and talking with a few of my parents friends, they seemed to agree, even though they have property. They say that increases in water, electricty, rates, tax etc etc, eat up most of any of the gains made by increases in rents.

I guess Im just wanting to know that my goals are achievable. I will pursue my dreams no matter what, just curious to hear from the members here.

Thanks.

First, as KYL suggested; remove the "I don't want to be rich" words from the vocab. If you are financially independant then you are rich - compared to most of the Planet. Those words are a "safety-net" mindset - an excuse for not reaching your goals.

Second, don't listen to friends and relatives - unless they are already financially independant, or have a decent sized IP portfolio already - at least 3 IP's - most of the Planet's investors own only one IP. And, investors are only about 30% of the housing market.

Third, I don't think property on it's own will get you there in 10 years. You can experience some great cap gains in 10 years, but the rents won't keep up enough, and you won't have accumulated enough cap gain in that time to be able to sell off some IP's, pay down some of the debt and have enough from the existing properties' rents to live I suspect. This is because in that first 10 years you will accumulating, which requires leveraging, so you will keep on eating into the cap gain in the form of debt. The LVR will remain quite high.

However, you can use the growing equity (cap gain) to expand into other money-making ventures. Such as businesses, or maybe some subdivs and/or developments, or high yield shares.

Personally, we have used a large chunk of our equity this year to buy existing businesses. Why? Because we could see that the properties we were holding would not allow us to escape from the rat-race anytime soon - even after selling some of them off to pay down the debt. The remaining cashflow would not be enough to live on. We would still need to work. And, we started investing in 2001 with a fully paid for PPoR to use as a springboard, and had the last boom to help us. So for someone starting out, the task is huge. Not saying it can't be done - but let's take off the rose-coloured glasses for a sec.

So why businesses?

Well, an outlay of $500k on a property may produce a pos cashflow in year one - but highly unlikely if it is 100% LVR. But you can buy a similar priced business in the same manner - using equity and receive an immediate return of around $100k nett income if you buy the right business (we have recently done this).

In 10 years, the IP worth $500k will probably double in value; nett worth would then be $500k - but you can't live off that cap gain while you are waiting - you are not financially free. I guess you could seel the IP and live off the remaining profit after taxes and costs are deducted, but the income is not ongoing after you've spent it, and your asset to keep on producing the cap gain has gone, unless you re-invest the profit from the IP sale.

But with the business, your $100k income is yours, right now and you can live off half and re-invest the other $50k back into the business. In 10 years, your equity in the business is the same as the IP, and you've had an income you can live off along the way.

Now, if you have 2 of these business, then the returns are substantially better. This is what we have done this year. We decided to invest our equity into income from businesses rather than back into more property. So now, we have almost $1 mill of equity invested into an immediate income that will replace our PAYE income. It hasn't yet - we are both still working and pouring all the profits back into the businesses, and living only off the PAYE. The businesses are managed, so my input is very small. In one more year the PAYE jobs will no longer be required. Minimal work - 20 hours per week maximum - with an income far exceeding the outgoings. Financial Independance!

Now, this does not mean we will stop buying property. Property is the basis of the wealth and assets and I believe is the safest of all investments to park your wealth in, so we will continue to add to the base.

Businesses are not for everyone, but consider this; most of the richest people in the world own businesses and also hold much of their wealth in their businesses and real estate.

Property has allowed us to do this change in strategy. You could also do it through buying businesses from the start rather than property, but it is much harder to get into a decent dollar level of business when starting out due to lenders' LVR's etc, whereas you can get onto the property ladder for a very small amount, with very high LVR's and the returns on smaller, cheaper properties can be very, very good.
 
This is great guys and yes it is acheivable if you want to use history as a rule.
Problem is nothing is a sure thing and when people tell you this you can be sure it is not.
The cat is out of bag as far as real estate is concerned, the whole world has the 101 on compounding effects of real estate, it is common knowledge and you know what that means.
Laws of averages are a fact and that tells me that real estate will not the great investment it has traditionally been in the past.
We really are heading into a new world right now who knows what will transpire over the next ten years but certainly real estate will not be the same money tree it has been.
There may be a bigger picture with a very different outcome to what you are painting.
 
I do



I live entirely off rents, it just takes time. Rents increase in line with CPI plus demand. You must keep an eye on where they are compared to the market.
I live very well.

Chris
 
My parents also live off rents, plus their superannuation and shares.

An accountant friend told me many years ago that having five paid off houses should see you living well, including the maintenance of those houses. It is something I have always had in the back of my mind.

Of course, many will aim for more, but we are lazy investors :D.
 
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